Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion

lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WobblyStroke said:
I'm in the same camp as you regarding feel of softies and the confidence that comes along with a familiar preferred feel. However, science is not personal. There are actual truths that can be deduced through experimentation. That said, it doesn't mean the 'myth' can't be useful to your game.

Take this golf example: Slow motion cameras showed that the 'flight laws' of the past were just wrong. We now know most of the initial direction of the ball is determined by the clubface and the spin is determined by the clubs path relative to that clubface orientation. However, there are still PGA tour winners today that use the methodology for shaping shots based on the old 'flight laws' which were proven wrong. They still swing where they want it to start and face the clubface where they want it to finish up. This is how they organize the movement in their minds and it works for them to a world class level. However, what they set up for and are feeling happens doesn't actually happen on slow mo cameras (which is obv bc as someone mentioned before, your feels don't change physics).

It is perfectly fine to organize your game around your own personal 'truths' based on feels and perceptions. It can even work to a level like Colin Morikawa in golf or Alex Pagulayan in pool, but that doesn't change the fact that the physics are THE physics and don't change from player to player.
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Well sure.

You will find no argument from me when it comes to things like how balls throw on combination shots. But when it comes to tips and stroking the CB I feel those are very idiosyncratic and, perhaps, the science is not accounting for all the variables involved. IOWs, I’m sticking with softer tips for the aforementioned reasons, regardless of what might be suggested by high speed video.

Lou Figueroa
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WobblyStroke said:
This is a valid point. All the spin gets applied in a split second, so why discount a 40 or 50% increase in that contact time?

Corey Deuel also seems to disagree given the explanation he gave for the technique he showed my friend. Granted that was well over 10 years ago so his thinking on this may have evolved since.
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And Corey has degree's in what????
 
W

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
garczar said:
And Corey has degree's in what????
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It's up there in previous posts. I mentioned how he taught a technique to my friend which seems to work quite well but his explanation for why was basically a mish mash of 3 different myths lol.

edit: misread ur post. Thought u were asking how Corey disagrees. As for ur actual question on degrees: his playing ability and results over the last cpl decades are all the credentials he needs.. He may very well be wrong on this one, but if Corey says something about pool, I will at least hear him out as I'm sure he will be wrong a helluva lot less than all the times he's right.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WobblyStroke said:
I'm in the same camp as you regarding feel of softies and the confidence that comes along with a familiar preferred feel. However, science is not personal. There are actual truths that can be deduced through experimentation. That said, it doesn't mean the 'myth' can't be useful to your game.

Take this golf example: Slow motion cameras showed that the 'flight laws' of the past were just wrong. We now know most of the initial direction of the ball is determined by the clubface and the spin is determined by the clubs path relative to that clubface orientation. However, there are still PGA tour winners today that use the methodology for shaping shots based on the old 'flight laws' which were proven wrong. They still swing where they want it to start and face the clubface where they want it to finish up. This is how they organize the movement in their minds and it works for them to a world class level. However, what they set up for and are feeling happens doesn't actually happen on slow mo cameras (which is obv bc as someone mentioned before, your feels don't change physics).

It is perfectly fine to organize your game around your own personal 'truths' based on feels and perceptions. It can even work to a level like Colin Morikawa in golf or Alex Pagulayan in pool, but that doesn't change the fact that the physics are THE physics and don't change from player to player.

So ye, even in a case like golf where we know with 100% certainty what the physics are, people still ignore that info in how they approach certain shots, knowingly using a technique based on a false premise. But that has worked for many in the past and continues to work for the players employing those methods today. In pool, we are still quite a ways from 100% confirmation so players playing according to their own truths and explaining their shots with myths isn't likely to go away any time soon.
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Not one good golfer believes that anymore. "The face sends it and the path bends it." Where the face is pointing determines the ball's startline not the path. Find one pro that will tell you otherwise. As for pool some people refuse to accept anything but long held myths. The contact time is so short that a tips hardness/softness has zilch effect on spin. What they believe doesn't mean jack to me or 99.9% of other players. If it makes them feel all warm-n-fuzzy why the fk do i care. Guess what? I don't
 
W

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
garczar said:
Not one good golfer believes that anymore. "The face sends it and the path bends it." Where the face is pointing determines the ball's startline not the path. Find one pro that will tell you otherwise. As for pool some people refuse to accept anything but long held myths. The contact time is so short that a tips hardness/softness has zilch effect on spin. What they believe doesn't mean jack to me or 99.9% of other players. If it makes them feel all warm-n-fuzzy why the fk do i care. Guess what? I don't
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That was the whole point of my story. I even named Colin Morikawa. When asked how he shapes his irons he literally described the old approach. Many people still use that methodology with success. Just about everyone used it back before we knew it was based on a false premise. Myths can work for people is the point... even when they are dead wrong.

It was on one of those on course with a pro instructional shows they air on the Golf Network if you wanna try and dig it up. FWIW, he doesn't believe the flight laws that methodology is based on, but he still uses it bc it works for him.
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WobblyStroke said:
In the same vein, if Morikawa were to play golf against any physicist, we'd know who to bet on too. But when it comes to explaining the curved shots and what actually happens, I don't care if the physicist is a 20handicap, he's the one whose right.
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Again, of course.

And the scientists can toast each other at their next science convention. A the next pool tournament, maybe not so much.

Lou Figueroa
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WobblyStroke said:
That was the whole point of my story. I even named Colin Morikawa. When asked how he shapes his irons he literally described the old approach. Many people still use that methodology with success. Just about everyone used it back before we knew it was based on a false premise. Myths can work for people is the point... even when they are dead wrong.

It was on one of those on course with a pro instructional shows they air on the Golf Network if you wanna try and dig it up. FWIW, he doesn't believe the flight laws that methodology is based on, but he still uses it bc it works for him.
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Been playing golf about 43yrs. Every teacher/player i've ever heard from said you aim face to start and the path bends it. Whoever told CM otherwise was an idiot.
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Again, of course.

And the scientists can toast each other at their next science convention. A the next pool tournament, maybe not so much.

Lou Figueroa
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At least the scientists can afford the toast. Must pool players can barely come with a bottle of Ozarka. ;)
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
garczar said:
I just heard that certain types of wraps increase cueball spin. Maybe even up to 1/10,000th of a revolution. Could this be true?? This could be groundbreaking stuff. We must investigate. ;)
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There might be something to this, albeit indirectly — but it could explain why some 3C players prefer rubber wraps.

Lou Figueroa
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
xX-Wizard-Xx said:
sounds like we are really on to some ground breaking stuff ... will make sure to unwatch this thread .... i want to keep it simple
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Might want to hang around. Next up is bumper material and its effect on CTE-based aiming. Its gonna be EPIC. ;)
 
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