cue's path

John Brumback

John Brumback

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Who thinks that you can alter the path of the cueball and the object with your cue's path or (pass,if you will) as you go through the cueball? All the while.. hitting the cueball in the center.What I'm talking about is hitting the cueball in the middle but going through the cball at a different angle.
Hope this question makes since.I think i can and do this but not 100% sure about it.Thanks,John B.
 
Deflection

If you hit the cueball through the center (relative to your current eye position) it goes straight. If you don't move your body, but move your stick to hit that same point (the center, relative to your eyes) at an angle, you probably will change the path of the cueball. That change in path is likely due to deflection.

Think of it this way. Pick a point on the cueball at the equator. If the cue stick is lined up directly into that point it would be a center-ball hit. If you move the cue stick 10 degrees to the left and move your eyes/body/etc. but keep the cueball contact point the same, you are now hitting the cueball with right english. Might be easier to show with a drawing...
 

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I think I get what your saying but it seems to me that if you are going at it at an angle then you are not really hitting center. I would probably have to draw something up to better explain myself.
 
If you hit a cueball at an angle then you arent making full contact in the center. Much of the tip is hitting off center and 'rolling' across the center of the ball.

When you hit straight into the cueball the center of the tip hits first whereas when you hit it at an angle the edge of the tip can hit first. This will change the way in which the cueball reacts.

So in answer to your question- yes hitting the cueball in the center from an angle will cause the path to be altered. But you arent really hitting it in the center.
 
I read about this in Hal Mix's book, and no, you're not really hitting center. It's just another system for aiming with English. I think Tony Annigoni (sp) aims this way?
 
This picture better explains what I was trying to say

question.png


Does that make sense or was I misunderstanding you?
 
If considering using the perimeter/equator as the contact point , I think you would be imparting spin anytime your cue's path doesn't go through the true center (core) of the cueball, if that makes sense.
 
John Brumback said:
Who thinks that you can alter the path of the cueball and the object with your cue's path or (pass,if you will) as you go through the cueball? All the while.. hitting the cueball in the center.What I'm talking about is hitting the cueball in the middle but going through the cball at a different angle.
Hope this question makes since.I think i can and do this but not 100% sure about it.Thanks,John B.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think so.
I remember that the core is the middle of the cue ball not an outside edge.

randyg
 
John Brumback said:
Who thinks that you can alter the path of the cueball and the object with your cue's path or (pass,if you will) as you go through the cueball? All the while.. hitting the cueball in the center.What I'm talking about is hitting the cueball in the middle but going through the cball at a different angle.
Hope this question makes since.I think i can and do this but not 100% sure about it.Thanks,John B.
Click to expand...

Good question, I'll try to provide an explaination that avoids Tensor Calculus.

If you hit shot A with center ball and follow thru in a straight line, you impact with a force that moves the CB
a certain speed and direction. This speed-and-direction can be described as a Vector.

If you hit shot B exactly the same, except, you swing the butt of the cue
out a few inches, you create a different Vector.

Dale
 
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You can think of the cue ball as having a million 'centerball' spots all strung around the equator. Each of these spots has a line going from the exact center of the core... to the spot on the equator.

If you pick one spot, and put your stick on this line, then that's a true centerball hit and the object ball should move along the same line as where the stick's pointing.

If you pick a spot but angle the stick, you're either hitting a different spot, or you hit the same spot but send the ball on a different line... one that doesn't exactly match where the stick's pointing. So it's not a centerball it, it's a shot with sidespin.

Hard to imagine what you're describing... are you thinking it sometimes feels like you can hit the same shot with the same cue ball action, but start out with two different stick angles?

With deflection can have you aim on one line, but send the cue ball on another, and then throw and such cancels everything out so your english shot almost acts like a shot with zero english. That's one way I can imagine you can have two stick angles product nearly the same result.
 
If you are truly hitting center ball you will not impart any spin on the ball no matter the angle of your stroke, because the ball is round you will just be pushing the ball along a different path.
 
Speaking purely theoretically in regards to the specifics of the question....

The answer is yes.

A good example is in a golf swing where the line of ball flight is influence by a combination of the face angle AND the swing path at the time of impact , of course disregarding the effects of imparted spin. The friction at impact has the effect of pulling the ball on a line approaching the path of the club.

The effect produced in a Pool stroke would have to be dramatically smaller in scale though.
 
randyg said:
Yes, I think so.
I remember that the core is the middle of the cue ball not an outside edge.

randyg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help.That's makes alot of sence to me."the core"

One reason I ask this ? is, it seems like I can get alot more turn on my object ball than most people that I try to help,yet my cball doesn't seem to have any noticeable turn or spin on the cball with the shots I'm thinking about.Which are bank shots by the way.I just think that on some shots I use a little different angle going through the cball (not a 100% sure though) If I do it it's very slight and hardly noticeable.John B.
 
pdcue said:
Good question, I'll try to provide an explaination that avoids Tensor Calculus.

If you hit shot A with center ball and follow thru in a straight line, you impact with a force that moves the CB
a certain speed and direction. This speed-and-direction can be described as a Vector.

If you hit shot B exactly the same, except, you swing the butt of the cue
out a few inches, you create a different Vector.

Dale
Click to expand...

Thanks,that might be exactly what I'm talking about.John B.
 
pdcue said:
Good question, I'll try to provide an explaination that avoids Tensor Calculus.

If you hit shot A with center ball and follow thru in a straight line, you impact with a force that moves the CB
a certain speed and direction. This speed-and-direction can be described as a Vector.

If you hit shot B exactly the same, except, you swing the butt of the cue
out a few inches, you create a different Vector.

Dale
Click to expand...

The contact between the tip and the ball lasts about 0.001 seconds.

Suppose you are doing a "swoop" stroke so that your rear hand is moving forward but also from left-to-right. 1 mile-per-hour of sideways motion would be quite a pronounced swoop. But let's work with it.

How much does your rear hand move sideways during the time the tip is on the ball? The answer is about a half a mm, half the thickness of a dime.

I think we can conclude this is not a fruitful strategy to pursue...
 
John,

You can probably do what you probably think you are doing.:smile: Maybe it is happening in a different way than you perceive it.

If you are striking the cue ball in a downward motion, you might be hopping the cue ball and thereby striking the object ball at a different spot than what would be hit with a level stroke?

Also, you might be hitting the cue ball at a different speed and that could make the object ball react differently as well.

And just for the record, are you talking about a cross-bank where the cueball crosses over an object ball and then the object ball goes into the rail and then toward another pocket?
 
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