Curiosity has me asking ...

3andstop

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Hi all, I just read through this thread ..

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=103627

... and I would like to ask a general question to all.

Is it only me or are there others who don't concern themselves with things such as deflection?

I never had a real fancy cue. I have 4 old meucci cues from the 80s, and old plain jane palmer from the early 70s which I don't really care for and thats about it. Before that I had used either an inexpensive sneaky pete or a house cue.

While I'm definitely no world beater of a player, I've run my share of balls over the 50 mark in 14.1 so I can play some, but I never was concerned with this deflection thing.

I know I like extra long tapers like my old meucci shafts, not cause they are good or bad, but becuase I'm used to them. I really don't like the feel of cues (custom or otherwise) that thicken the taper quickly enough that I can feel the difference when I stroke.

So I really do wonder, am I the only one who doesn't consider this deflection thing? LOL , I wouldn't even bet money that the term refers to ball deflection or shaft deflection ... I'm embarrased to say I just don't think of it. Another sign of age perhaps ... :(
 
One cannot discount there is a market for items on sale.

I think you can turn a screw with either a #4 or #5 screwdriver.

FURST
 
Black-Balled said:
One cannot discount there is a market for items on sale.

I think you can turn a screw with either a #4 or #5 screwdriver.

FURST
Click to expand...

No doubt, I don't discount that one bit, on the contrary, it is the very fact that there is a market for so many ideas both good and bad that spawned my question.

I did not intended the question to be rhetorical, I truely wonder if I'm missing the boat on some important new technology that I let pass me by and most or all players, young and old find a necessary and integral part of playing, or if (I incorrectly assumed) it is just another sales gimmick that should not be a concern.

I play nowhere near as much as I did 25 or 30 yrs ago, I don't go out to pool rooms at all anymore ( my eardrums can't take it) but being away from all that doesn't mean I am not interested on some important new technology that absolutely refines stroke / contact accuracy. On the other hand, I have no interest collecting cues, shafts or gimmicks, so I honestly ask the knowledgeable folks here. :grin-square:
 
3andstop said:
While I'm definitely no world beater of a player, I've run my share of balls over the 50 mark in 14.1 so I can play some, but I never was concerned with this deflection thing.
Click to expand...

Deflection does not come into play in the game of 14:1 as much as it does in other games requiring more cueball movement. In addition, there are many solid players who can get angle position and don't use a lot of sidespin.

However, for the times you use English (sidespin) and there is distance between the cueball and object ball, deflection WILL come into play, and the aiming point must be altered, especially with older high deflection shafts.
 
It's the Indian not the Arrow. There is not such thing as a magic shaft or cue, that pull it of the box and its going to make you shot 3 balls better.
 
Poke N Hope said:
It's the Indian not the Arrow. There is not such thing as a magic shaft or cue, that pull it of the box and its going to make you shot 3 balls better.
Click to expand...
predator shafts will make you shoot better the shots that you juice up for position will be made more regularly without rattling in the jawsguy.for real:confused:
 
Thanks guys, yes I do play primarily 14.1 or one pocket. Perhaps it's not even an issue for me then regardless.

In reference to the term "deflection" I assumed it is referring to the CB deflecting, but as I mentioned, I never looked into it to know for sure if it is CB or CShaft. If I was ever told in the past, I'm embarrassed to say I've forgotten.

I also assumed, (correct me if I'm mistaken please) that "any" shaft designed like the old meucci shafts (maybe even the new ones, I've never seen one) with an extra long portion from the tip to the beginning of the widening taper will be whippier ( if that's a word) and like a shock absorber will bend a tad and decrease the amount of shock the CB realizes as opposed to a shaft that taper wider quickly.

thanks for the info!
 
Personally, the only time I give it any thought is when I read about it here. I have read about it here and other places {rsb} quite extensively, but pay no attention to it when playing/practicing.
 
The magnetizing madness of it all

As a relatively new student of the game, I think your inquiry (3andstop) is a good one! Aren't we all sifting through enormous amount of info - to see what each of us can process and what we pass on incorporating.

So much of my game was self-taught many years ago and so intuition and learning from trial and error was my schooling. I have picked up the cue after 3 decades of hibernation, but this time I want info to help me develop. Older and wiser, I hope! I've been gobbling up a LOT of info in the last couple months (AZ has been a fantastic find!), and so FWIW, here's a semi-Newbie's (I believe I would be @ a APA 8 in 9ball) take on deflection and incorporating its physics into MY game at THIS time in my development.

I just became aware of deflection due to this forum and subsequent "studying". I had no friggin clue before a month ago what it was. I now understand why I was missing some angle shots using spin that I hit fairly hard - outside english wasn't cutting enough, and inside was cutting too much. WTF? I swear I was aiming at the same contact point as I would with a softer stroke! Now I KNOW why I was missing, and have made the adjustment, and am an incrementally better player. Much beyond that, I don't know that this new-found wisdom has impacted my game at this juncture. But not for lack of wondering... There is so much talk about shafts - "the Z has little deflection but a small sweet-spot, the 314-2 is praised for consistency with a just a hint more deflection, Joe Crackshot loves the OB1 and Harry Hardknocker hated his trial with the OB1 and went back to the Predator 314".

So I sift through the mounds. I say to self - self? How to process? Is my 34 year old Palmer the proper implement for my game? Is it high or low deflection? Is it inadequate and a handicap? Is this why I don't run 7 racks in a row (or is it the tendency to raise my BAC)? Should I try something else? ..... And my answer is - this is not a priority, yet. I learned some valuable deflection info, but for me to go tinkering with new equipment brings in a huge variable that can skew my ability to process new information. I need my Palmer as a constant - to work on my safeties, my side-spin stuns, my speed, my banks, more effective practice, and confidence in my game. I made a personal decision not to tinker with my cue at this stage.

There's so much information available here, it can get quite overwhelming and we must choose what to focus on - one bite at a time.

All that being said... How can I determine if my cue is holding me back? OH THE MADNESS OF IT ALL!!!!!!
 
i played with a more limber shaft for years, when you switch to a stiffer shaft you'll have to relearn aiming. you subconciously allow for the deflection with what you now use. some shots will be easier with the old shaft, (spinning thru kisses playing one pocket,etc.) but at the end of the day you'll be much better off with a stiffer shaft. i know i am.
 
kentw said:
predator shafts will make you shoot better the shots that you juice up for position will be made more regularly without rattling in the jawsguy.for real:confused:
Click to expand...


I have custom made Old Growth Maple Shafts that have low deflection equal to your predators. :grin:. No matter what you are using, you still have to make adjustments. :yikes:
 
3andstop said:
Hi all, I just read through this thread ..

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=103627

... and I would like to ask a general question to all.

Is it only me or are there others who don't concern themselves with things such as deflection? SNIP
Click to expand...

Well, what I think you mean is not so much not worry about deflection in general, but when picking out a cue/shaft correct? As knowledgable players, we should always be aware of how the cue-ball reacts after leaving the tip. I don't worry too much if soem other shaft deflects 10% better than another shaft, but I do see how it makes me play. I recently got rid of my Samsara because the shaft was a bit "whippy" feeling and I wanted to try a harder-hitting stick. And I always think about how much to aim off to adjust for a given side-spin shot.
 
all a sales pitch

i have ran many racks of 9 and 8 ball with a cue picked off the rack at whatever joint i happen to be in at the time. i truly believe most of us oldtimers that played in bars in the 60's 70's can shoot just as good with a one piece valley house cue as with anything. i just built a cue with 3 oz of 14k gold in it, so i believe there is a place for multi inlay, elaborate, fancy collector cues, but i still think for a playing cue the less bells and whistles the better.
 
how do u check ur deflection?

what might be the best feasible way to determine any particular shaft's deflection characteristics?

(my shaft is so old it farts dust)
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
As a relatively new student of the game, I think your inquiry (3andstop) is a good one! Aren't we all sifting through enormous amount of info - to see what each of us can process and what we pass on incorporating.

So much of my game was self-taught many years ago and so intuition and learning from trial and error was my schooling. I have picked up the cue after 3 decades of hibernation, but this time I want info to help me develop. Older and wiser, I hope! I've been gobbling up a LOT of info in the last couple months (AZ has been a fantastic find!), and so FWIW, here's a semi-Newbie's (I believe I would be @ a APA 8 in 9ball) take on deflection and incorporating its physics into MY game at THIS time in my development.

I just became aware of deflection due to this forum and subsequent "studying". I had no friggin clue before a month ago what it was. I now understand why I was missing some angle shots using spin that I hit fairly hard - outside english wasn't cutting enough, and inside was cutting too much. WTF? I swear I was aiming at the same contact point as I would with a softer stroke! Now I KNOW why I was missing, and have made the adjustment, and am an incrementally better player. Much beyond that, I don't know that this new-found wisdom has impacted my game at this juncture. But not for lack of wondering... There is so much talk about shafts - "the Z has little deflection but a small sweet-spot, the 314-2 is praised for consistency with a just a hint more deflection, Joe Crackshot loves the OB1 and Harry Hardknocker hated his trial with the OB1 and went back to the Predator 314".

So I sift through the mounds. I say to self - self? How to process? Is my 34 year old Palmer the proper implement for my game? Is it high or low deflection? Is it inadequate and a handicap? Is this why I don't run 7 racks in a row (or is it the tendency to raise my BAC)? Should I try something else? ..... And my answer is - this is not a priority, yet. I learned some valuable deflection info, but for me to go tinkering with new equipment brings in a huge variable that can skew my ability to process new information. I need my Palmer as a constant - to work on my safeties, my side-spin stuns, my speed, my banks, more effective practice, and confidence in my game. I made a personal decision not to tinker with my cue at this stage.

There's so much information available here, it can get quite overwhelming and we must choose what to focus on - one bite at a time.

All that being said... How can I determine if my cue is holding me back? OH THE MADNESS OF IT ALL!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Low deflection shafts reduce the amount of squirt of the cue ball when you apply side English. Low deflection shafts may be solid Maple shafts that have low end mass. Normally skinny, straight tapered maple shafts seem to deflect a little less than fat, conical shaped solid, maple shafts or so it has been my impression.

I think for older players that are used to regular solid Maple shafts, the transition to "new technology" low deflection shafts may be too burdensome for some. For others, a bit of sticktoitiveness is required but a lower deflection shaft will reduce the margin of error on side spin shots.

The low deflection shafts provide a different feel and a different action to the cue ball and this too requires some acceptance and getting used to.

I've been playing a while (I used to play with a Palmer a long time ago) and have tinkered with using low deflection shafts but never got used to them. Recently I had a 314-2 Predator shaft made for my cue and last night was the first time I put it to use under real fire. I had been practicing and playing with the new shaft for a week or two and could do some things better and some things worse. At the beginning of the match a small amount of lack of confidence crept into my mind but I was determined to test the shaft under pressure even though I was sorely tempted to go back to my old maple shaft. My opponent was a slightly better player but I was able to make key shots when it counted, got lucky other times and broke even after a long night of playing.

I guess I will keep playing with the new shaft because I believe that if I can get used to the lower deflection, the hit and the action on the cue ball, it will make me a VERY slightly better shot maker.

My advice is to try out someone else's low deflection shaft/cue and see if it something you think you could get used to. Afterall, it's only money and we can spend it eating, drinking and general carousing but we sure can't take it with us.
JoeyA
 
desi2960 said:
i have ran many racks of 9 and 8 ball with a cue picked off the rack at whatever joint i happen to be in at the time. i truly believe most of us oldtimers that played in bars in the 60's 70's can shoot just as good with a one piece valley house cue as with anything. i just built a cue with 3 oz of 14k gold in it, so i believe there is a place for multi inlay, elaborate, fancy collector cues, but i still think for a playing cue the less bells and whistles the better.
Click to expand...
most of those cues (house cues)are much stiffer than your older pro taper cues.
 
I don't really care about deflection. Then again I miss a lot of shots where I feel like my aim is dead on.
 
JB Cases said:
I don't really care about deflection. Then again I miss a lot of shots where I feel like my aim is dead on.
Click to expand...

Come on, with your laser beam way of shooting/aiming you don't have to care about deflection because for you it doesn't exist. :D
JoeyA
 
I don't think I even heard of delfection before I came on AZ or they started selling shafts to cut down on it.

The main reason you see a pro get all p/o when he gets a little out of position is not that he can't make the shot. It's because he has to put something on the QB to make the ball and get back in position for the rest of the run. If they have to shoot harder to make the QB get around four or five rails or put english/spin on it that raises the percentage of a miss or poor position. Good players want to only use running or natural english and stop shots.

I used an open brige all but the last few years of quiting. My shaft was thick and very stiff. I felt if I kept a good tip on it that was good enough. I've had nights over the years where I hardly ever missed a shot or got out of position and other night when I couldn't run five balls. Where did the defleciton go on my good night? After you get up the ladder to a B or B+ player it's mostly mental from there on. Johnnyt
 
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