Custom Cue Balance

[Bustah360]

I was wondering if any cuemakers have ideas as to setting the perfect balance to a cue. I know some like rear balance, and most like forward balance set. I've mostly hit with forward balanced cues, but I can't seem to find out the right technique for having a forward balanced cue where I don't feel the where the balance point is. That's the key IMO.

A great hitting cue is a great hitting when it comes down to it; don't me wrong. But I find the most comfortable and best hitting are the ones where the cue's weight feels identical from the joint, as does down to the butt sleeve. For example, a friend of mine has a Mike Bender. This is one of the most unbelievable hitting cues I've had to pleasure of trying out. It completely felt like it was an extension to my very own arm. I could hold the cue practically on the butt cap, stretching for a shot with a long reach, or have my hand above the wrap for a jacked up stroke shot. Couldn't feel the weight balance focused on any part. The cue felt exactly the same however I held it.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT. Any ideas? Was it the particular construction? Maybe the wood used to core out the cue?

 

[qbilder]

With my cues, balance is a consideration early on. It's built in to the cue. Cues with weight bolts can be adjusted a little but you're also adjusting weight, as well as balance.

 

[Bustah360]

I've seen where even production cues are now being made with interchangeable weight bolts. That's still a bit on the synthetic side. At least thats the way it feels to me. Nothing better than natural wood balance IMO.

Is there a desirable weight for the butt & shaft to come off evenly balanced once assembled?

 

[cueman]

I was wondering if any cuemakers have ideas as to setting the perfect balance to a cue. I know some like rear balance, and most like forward balance set. I've mostly hit with forward balanced cues, but I can't seem to find out the right technique for having a forward balanced cue where I don't feel the where the balance point is. That's the key IMO.

A great hitting cue is a great hitting when it comes down to it; don't me wrong. But I find the most comfortable and best hitting are the ones where the cue's weight feels identical from the joint, as does down to the butt sleeve. For example, a friend of mine has a Mike Bender. This is one of the most unbelievable hitting cues I've had to pleasure of trying out. It completely felt like it was an extension to my very own arm. I could hold the cue practically on the butt cap, stretching for a shot with a long reach, or have my hand above the wrap for a jacked up stroke shot. Couldn't feel the weight balance focused on any part. The cue felt exactly the same however I held it.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT. Any ideas? Was it the particular construction? Maybe the wood used to core out the cue?

This kind of balance is usually achieved by spreading the weight evenly throughout the handle area. So a little heavier handle wood with no heavy screw at the forearm /wrap joint and no weight bolt is the easiest way to accomplish it. A one piece wood butt is another way to get that balance.

 

[Bustah360]

This kind of balance is usually achieved by spreading the weight evenly throughout the handle area. So a little heavier handle wood with no heavy screw at the forearm /wrap joint and no weight bolt is the easiest way to accomplish it. A one piece wood butt is another way to get that balance.

Ok. How would a player explain that concept to his cuemaker? Lets say I want a classic cue with 4 ebony points, birds eye maple forearm, ebony butt sleeve and hard wood wrap area. How can I convey the handle concept in order to keep the cue equally balanced overall?

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

Weight and Balance equations with a balance fulcrum is best accommodated by placing weight at the outside edges of the object, in this case a pool cue with the shaft. The moment arm or the "perpendicular distance from the point of rotation" is a simple matter like balancing a algebraic equation per se.

When I build one of my fully cored cues (without weight from an A-Joint), I place a weight bolt embedded and epoxied behind my pin so that I have a forward balanced cue at the weight prescribed for that particular cue. The rear weight bolt is only a compensating unit to dial in the exact point of rotation I require and it not always required depending on the species used.

When building a cue, I don't worry at all about the weight until the end of my control process because without the A-Joint weight in there, I always need to distribute some weight to the unit for my forward balance philosophy.

If the player wishes to move the balance or fulcrum aft ward or to a more conventional fulcrum, only a small weight modification ( rear weight bolt ) has to be applied or added to the butt. This method is designed never to aft load the cue which is the case with most cues when adding a weight to the aft section.

This works for me and is just my method for skinning the cat and my process control of this very important feature in cue making.

Rick G

 

[JoeyInCali]

Ok. How would a player explain that concept to his cuemaker? Lets say I want a classic cue with 4 ebony points, birds eye maple forearm, ebony butt sleeve and hard wood wrap area. How can I convey the handle concept in order to keep the cue equally balanced overall?

All things considered, imo the best place to add weight would be at or near the center of the butt.
From experience, when I make 19 oz cues, I often add some epoxied weight at the end of my 15" core wood that goes down the handle . It adds a little weight to the butt without altering the balance much at all.
I will then pick the pin to use . Brass and SS are about 1.3-1.2 oz.
Then can also be reduced in weight if needed down to .8 oz.
Adding .5 oz at the bottom to balance the cue out would be easy.
You can also alter the weight and balance with the taper .
Or using a heavier underwrap handle like bocote and purpleheart is an option too.
Basically, the least amount of drastic weight added, the better imo.

 

[scdiveteam]

All things considered, imo the best place to add weight would be at or near the center of the butt.
From experience, when I make 19 oz cues, I often add some epoxied weight at the end of my 15" core wood that goes down the handle . It adds a little weight to the butt without altering the balance much at all.
I will then pick the pin to use . Brass and SS are about 1.3-1.2 oz.
Then can also be reduced in weight if needed down to .8 oz.
Adding .5 oz at the bottom to balance the cue out would be easy.
You can also alter the weight and balance with the taper .
Or using a heavier underwrap handle like bocote and purpleheart is an option too.
Basically, the least amount of drastic weight added, the better imo.

Hi Joe,

Are you saying that all your cues are not tapered with the same geometry to accommodate a simple thing like weight and balance.

To me, my tapers of the butt and shaft are the holy grail that I would never change them for any reason at this point. But then again I only make one type of cue, maybe you have different models.

Rick

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hi Joe,

Are you saying that all your cues are not tapered with the same geometry to accommodate a simple thing like weight and balance.

To me, my tapers of the butt and shaft are the holy grail that I would never change them for any reason at this point. But then again I only make one type of cue, maybe you have different models.

Rick

Yes.
But, I keep the forearm as close to the original taper as possible.
I like my forearm taper to extend to 14-15 inches then pivot to the handle's taper.
If someone wants a heavy cue and he is a tall player I can go to 1.250 bottom instead of 1.240.
Not too hard to do with my taper bar as I have stoppers for it.
Also if someone wants a looser or stiffer shaft taper, I can accommodate it.
I'm making a sneaky now that is over 19.3 oz.
I made the section in the middle a little fatter.

btw, if you don't change your shaft taper at request by people who get them, they'll take it somewhere else.
Not quite holy grail.

 

[scdiveteam]

Yes.
But, I keep the forearm as close to the original taper as possible.
I like my forearm taper to extend to 14-15 inches then pivot to the handle's taper.
If someone wants a heavy cue and he is a tall player I can go to 1.250 bottom instead of 1.240.
Not too hard to do with my taper bar as I have stoppers for it.
Also if someone wants a looser or stiffer shaft taper, I can accommodate it.
I'm making a sneaky now that is over 19.3 oz.
I made the section in the middle a little fatter.

btw, if you don't change your shaft taper at request by people who get them, they'll take it somewhere else.
Not quite holy grail.

Hi Joey,

When someone does not want my taper, I politely show them the door or refer them to a different CM. When someone plays with one of my sold cues in the field, I want to make sure they don't have some bastardized version I made for someone just to make a sale. That I have control over. If someone changes my taper after I sell it, I can't control that and will have to live with that consequence that may confuse someone who might want to try a cue to see how mine plays.

I would rather find a customer who likes my cue for what it is. Not what it could be if I change it. You can never please everyone anyway, so why try? I learned a long time ago about KISS. Keep it simple stupid and have tried to apply that theme within all of my past business ventures. It has never let me down so far so I think I will keep doing it in my cue making design features.

Rick

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey,

When someone does not want my taper, I politely show them the door or refer them to a different CM. When someone plays with one of my sold cues in the field, I want to make sure they don't have some bastardized version I made for someone just to make a sale. That I have control over. If someone changes my taper after I sell it, I can't control that and will have to live with that consequence that may confuse someone who might want to try a cue to see how mine plays.

I would rather find a customer who likes my cue for what it is not what it could be if I change it.

Rick

Basically you are being an arrogant maker.
Even SW has different tapers.
Bastardized version to make a sale ?
How about accommodating the customer who's paying premium price for my cues ? If I can't accommodate their little request ( we are not talking moochi taper here ) , I'm not a custom cuemaker then.
I'd hate to argue that a little more wood in the middle or a heavier underwrap is a lot better than more weight under the pin but it is my opinion.

 

[scdiveteam]

Basically you are being an arrogant maker.
Even SW has different tapers.
Bastardized version to make a sale ?
How about accommodating the customer who's paying premium price for my cues ? If I can't accommodate their little request ( we are not talking moochi taper here ) , I'm not a custom cuemaker then.
I'd hate to argue that a little more wood in the middle or a heavier underwrap is a lot better than more weight under the pin but it is my opinion.

Joey,

The basic prime directive in my White Paper for Esoteric Cue is "To build cues who's playability, hit and feedback, are as consistent as possible based on engineering design principals and process control during the build". That means having a QC/QA Program and AQL ( acceptable quality level ) that monitors all factors involved. How could I have consistency if my tapers where all over the place. If that is arrogant shoot me.

I am not arrogant at all. I just know what I like and want to do with my life a my time. I don't owe anything to anybody and as I said, I would politely show anyone the door, meaning I would not accommodate their taper request. As a good business person, I would always recommend them to someone else who could do it. In the future I will send them to you.

BTW, I don't personally like SW Cues for other reasons and don't wish to emulate theirs or anyone else's practices either. Using them as a sounding board or high authoritative standard does not impress me in the least.

Respectfully,

Rick

 

[cueman]

Ok. How would a player explain that concept to his cuemaker? Lets say I want a classic cue with 4 ebony points, birds eye maple forearm, ebony butt sleeve and hard wood wrap area. How can I convey the handle concept in order to keep the cue equally balanced overall?

Print off what I said and show it to him or better yet have me build the cue. :smile:

 

[qbilder]

I agree with Joey. Either you alter your dimensions or the owner will take the work elsewhere. Once a cue leaves your shop, and you are paid, it's no longer your cue. That owner can, and as my experience has proven, will find somebody to make changes. Either it's you, or it isn't, the changes will be made regardless & there's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing you can do.

 

[Paul Dayton]

I try to maintain my normal double taper ans diameters but if a customer wants something different for a specific reason I would rather have it be me making the changes than someone else he takes the cue to. There are things I won't do because they would affect the playability too much. Any cue out there with my name on it better play well.

 

[Lexicologist71]

Back to the original post, Ray Schuler did not use weights anywhere in the cue other than the bumper. He did have a bumper that could add weight, but nowhere else. Trust me. I had 4 of them X-rayed. He accomplished his weight and balance using thicker dimensions from the shaft down to the butt plate. His joint added very little weight so there were no 'heavy spots'.

 

[scdiveteam]

Back to the original post, Ray Schuler did not use weights anywhere in the cue other than the bumper. He did have a bumper that could add weight, but nowhere else. Trust me. I had 4 of them X-rayed. He accomplished his weight and balance using thicker dimensions from the shaft down to the butt plate. His joint added very little weight so there were no 'heavy spots'.

Hi,

Haven't many of the so called best hitting cues been constructed with very heavy metal joints over the years?? At least that is what I have heard.

Ray's A-Joint was made up of his interference fit piloted Schuler Joint. As you said very light weight.

Don't get me wrong, I love Schuler Cues and play with one of his Carom Cues for billiards. Billiards cues tend to be light.

Rick