custom cue makers

[TATE]

Purdman,

I have to agree with JimBo here, Phillippi blatantly rips off designs from other cuemakers. They have done it for years. I have owned several Philippi's and all but one played very well. There are a lot of people that like their cues. I just have a problem with them stealing a design idea. It's not like they see a design and come up with a new idea from that design, they will duplicate the design exactly. To me, that shows no creativity or class.

Here's a funny story. I became a fan of a cue maker - I'll call him Sam - and I liked a particular ring design he was known for with small ivory dots. Well one day I ran across a vintage Josswest cue made in the 1970's, well before Sam came up with his design - and it looked and measured exactly the same. I said "Sam, I noticed Bill Stroud came up with the same ringwork as you did 10 years before your design". He said "He did? He copied Ernie!".


Chris

 

[JoeyInCali]

The Hagan cue is awesome hitting cue, I cannot get out of my head why this guy isnt making cues.......what a waste.



What the hell is up with Bill Hagan?

Regards
ken

Bill and his wife were taken by the UFO in Arizona.
They are nowhere to be found.
Bill had his way of construction that nobody else did as far as I know.
Since Bill is nowhere to be found, I might try his contruction method someday.
It's a costly construction method though.

 

[JimBo]

JimBo, I have never heard anybody say that Phillippi steals others designs. Almost all the cue makers build cues with some similarities. I am also familiar with Richard and Ricks work. I live in the area. I have bought and sold many of them. Some play great and some so, so. The rage now is Black Boar. I had one and didn't like it. My favorite playing cue is a Dave Kikel. I just picked up a Bludworth Connoisseur cue that feels the same. Great balance and play ability. I have a 1990 Phillippi that plays sweet also. This really is no place to bash a cuemakers product. The guy asked a question. You have never played with one, so how can you provide an answer?
Purdman

This is a forum to share ideas and opinions, it's not a place where we all need to kiss ass and keep quiet if our opinions aren't always favorable. I'm sorry that you didn't like what I had to say, but the fact is it's the truth. Phillippi cues are often copies of Josswest and Ginacues, and others. I did not comment on how the cues were built or how they play, you can love the hit all you want it has little if anything at all to do with what we are talking about. As a matter of fact your opinion of how they hit means nothing, one man's treasure is another man's trash. If someone came here and said the hit sucked you would have no way to even argue the fact because hit is subjective, but in this case I can show you many phillippi cues and then show you exactly what cues they stole the ideas from. I think it's great that you like their work, I think it's great you live close and have a personal relationship with them, maybe next time you're in the shop you can bring this up and see what they have to say about it, I am sure it won't be the first time they have heard it. They might even have a standard answer all ready to go, and I'd love to hear it. BTW it’s nothing personal, I think even less of Coker cues and the Southwest knockoffs, to me it’s nothing more then stealing and it needs to stop.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

The guy asked a question. You have never played with one, so how can you provide an answer?
Purdman

In case I didn't cover this in my last reply let me say that the question asked was about his cuemaking and not the HIT of the cue. I can answer it because I have seen many of their cues and I don't need to hit with a cue to comment on the cue making, 1/2 of the cue making involves the design. I don't like to get into a “what cue hits best” type of question/answer debate because most people like what they have or have a limited amount of knowledge on the topic. A person who has been playing for 3 years and who has only owned a Cuetech and a Meucci can say without lying that a Meucci is the best hitting cue he's ever tried. Another guy who may live near a certain cuemaker and buy and sell his cues often may want to make his sound best for personal gain. My words were my own observations, many people I know share them, sorry you may be to close to the situation to see them for what they are, or maybe you just have something to gain and want to ignore them.

Jim

 

[piglit]

Dammit, Fred- you beat me to it!! You are a funny man!
-pigi

No wonder it's front heavy.

Fred <~~~ who shoots with a 1" diameter shaft?

 

[cueman]

Ok guys,I must disagree with you Joe and also Chris on inter-points being impossible. Joe, I assume your making that assumption and maybe you have never built a cue.

Judging from your post, you must be saying that most, if not all your cuemakers can not get there points even. I'll bet you whatever, I could teach you in less than a day, and the points would be lined up, inside as well as outside. Tripple milled, please.......not nessesary if you know your stuff....

I had trouble when I first started, later, I learned how.[ many screw ups later I finaly had it down patt]...It's tough, but not as bad as most think.

If any qualified cuemaker knows his stuff, the outer-points line up as well as the inter-points, and it's not to tough to do.

It's all in the "SET UP" from turning the tapered front, to cutting the vee's, and holding things square while turn cutting, and finaly the finish cut. I will not send a cue out that's not within a pencile width for line up. If it can't be adjusted and look great, I, scrap it and build another one. Years back, I didn't scrap them. [Sure wish I had those not so even, pointed cues, back].

Most guys move the rear-end of the front, to square up the points at the nose end. This is wrong, and won't work. Move the nose a little and take a fine and thin cut. If it's still lined up, your ok, if not make your adjustments, try again, if not in alignment, scrap it, and start over.

However, by moving either end, can cause you big problems.You can have the rear end of the veneer points looking bad. What i'm saying, is the wood stock "BETWEEN" the veneers is off. One side will be say, .100 thds. the other will be .150 or better. This looks bad. Meaning that the cue was turn-cut "OFF CENTER"....All the points should be the same. The top of the points, the inter-points, the width of the expossed wood between the points at the top of the wrap area should be the same width also.

If you have the same amount of material at the cross section of the back end of the front, [same thickness on all 4 sides], and you maintain it on center, then make sure your glue is not to thick in one vee or to thin in another, and your veneers are of the same thickness, and your inter- part, is the same, it will turn cut perfectly.

There's a lot of "IF's" here but again, "IF" you do it right and hold everthing close, you should have no problem, maintaining inter or outer points even.

NOTE!, Just using to much glue in one cavity will cause that veneer and inter part to be off, [shorter] more than the others. Turn cutting on a taper, will cause you all kinds of problems, if your not carfull.Turn cut the front and glue up the points the same day will help. Attach the handle and turn cut, paint, wrap, compound and collect the cash...........

Would be happy to teach either of you guys.

blud

Chris did not say inner veneers were impossible. I stated why they are difficult to keep aligned and thinks it is being too nit picky to demand they be even. Yes it can be done, but I would bet most on here who nit pick the $500 cue that has uneven inner veneer points, would not be willing to pay the price for a McWorter, Hercheck, Bludworth or Hightower that is done near perfect. My point is that they should be willing to pay pay the high dollars for near perfect work and not expect that out of of lower dollar cues.
I hear comments like "I would not own a cue with uneven points." What will they pay for even points? No wonder most choose not to make v-groove points very often.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[drivermaker]

Yes it can be done, but I would bet most on here who nit pick the $500 cue that has uneven inner veneer points, would not be willing to pay the price for a McWorter, Hercheck, Bludworth or Hightower that is done near perfect. My point is that they should be willing to pay pay the high dollars for near perfect work and not expect that out of of lower dollar cues.

Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

I don't think anyone is nit picking a $500 cue. For $500 who gives a rat's ass.

It's the higher priced custom cues wherein lies the problem. Hercek doesn't charge an arm and a leg for one of his cues if you're willing to go on the waiting list for 5 years. Fact is, there are TOO MANY cue makers out there that are charging close to what Hercek does and they don't have the name, the reputation, the individual and somewhat unique style that he uses, nor the personal demand for perfection in the finished product. Everybody that has the word "custom" in front of cuemaker feels the need to charge $2,000 and up for their work. It's like...hey...if Schon can charge $1,500 or more for a cue and they're a "production" company, then I should be able to at least do that and more for my work. Yet, they haven't earned the right to it by good work or anything else. And when a known company starts falling down in quality, they should get their asses kicked.

 

[blud]

Chris did not say inner veneers were impossible. I stated why they are difficult to keep aligned and thinks it is being too nit picky to demand they be even.
Yes, it can be done. Nit picky, maybe to some, however if your a good hand, and want to build a great reputation, you should do your best each and every time. I, feel if your getting good money for your stuff, why not build it to the very best you can do. It's no difficult to do, each and every time.It only take a little longer to do it right, rather than wrong, even though it's a big PAIN........

My vee pointed cues bring $2,200.00 plus dollars , with two shafts, ivory ferrules, 8 ivory inlays, and a Whitten cue case...with even, inter and outer points.

I just sold a cue to a friend, who had a complaint about a blimish in the cue. It was ebony, and had a light color in the ebony. There was some light colored brown streaks. I told him to send it back and i would refinish it and stain it black. I normaly don't stain ebony, [ I like what mother nature has provided us],but this is what he wants, so it will be stained, at no charge..

Differant strokes for differant folks...........

bottom line, is, I've maintained good relations, with a great customer.

blud

 

[jhendri2]

...but I would bet most on here who nit pick the $500 cue that has uneven inner veneer points...
Chris

Where did this $500 crap come from? We were talking about Southwest and short spliced cues. The last cue I had made cost me $2,300. We're not talking about McDermott or Meucci here. Like I said before, for the money I'm spending, you're darn right everything must be even.

Jim

 

[Purdman]

This is a forum to share ideas and opinions, it's not a place where we all need to kiss ass and keep quiet if our opinions aren't always favorable. I'm sorry that you didn't like what I had to say, but the fact is it's the truth. Phillippi cues are often copies of Josswest and Ginacues, and others. I did not comment on how the cues were built or how they play, you can love the hit all you want it has little if anything at all to do with what we are talking about. As a matter of fact your opinion of how they hit means nothing, one man's treasure is another man's trash. If someone came here and said the hit sucked you would have no way to even argue the fact because hit is subjective, but in this case I can show you many phillippi cues and then show you exactly what cues they stole the ideas from. I think it's great that you like their work, I think it's great you live close and have a personal relationship with them, maybe next time you're in the shop you can bring this up and see what they have to say about it, I am sure it won't be the first time they have heard it. They might even have a standard answer all ready to go, and I'd love to hear it. BTW it’s nothing personal, I think even less of Coker cues and the Southwest knockoffs, to me it’s nothing more then stealing and it needs to stop.

Jim

OK Jim, you post the EXACT copies and I will post Rick and Richards reply to your accusation. Fare enough?
Purdman
No, I don't have anything to gain. I have never purchased a cue directly from the Phillippis. I do know that Rick is one of the nicest cue makers you will find out there.

 

[cueman]

I will not send a cue out that's not within a pencile width for line up.
blud

I don't think a pencil width would satisfy any one who posted here.

 

[cueman]

Where did this $500 crap come from? We were talking about Southwest and short spliced cues. The last cue I had made cost me $2,300. We're not talking about McDermott or Meucci here. Like I said before, for the money I'm spending, you're darn right everything must be even.

Jim

The below quote from Drivermaker is what I was refering to:
(QUOTE)Crying out loud, you have Meucci bashers beating on him mercilessly for problems that have occured over the years on a $500 cue or less, yet, they're more than willing to accept shit work on a cue that's over 2 grand? (QOUTE)

It is those who beat up on the lower priced cues who aggravate me. One writer stated he would not own a cue with uneven points. My question is what is the least expensive cue he owns? If South West says their inner points may not be even then that is their standard. If you want better for the price, go elsewhere. SW feels the hit and quality they produce makes their cues worth the price they are asking. Maybe they would need to charge $500 more per cue for point perfection since they would be scapping a few cues. Would you pay the extra $500 for perfectly even inner veneers?

 

[jhendri2]

Would you pay the extra $500 for perfectly even inner veneers?

I wouldn't expect to have to pay more. I would expect a cuemaker to WANT to make them even, not just dimiss what players are saying about there cues. I would rather take my business to someone who takes pride in their artistic as well as mechanical ability. Just as Blud stated. "Perfectly" is a strong word. I expect that when I order a cue or send a design to have a cue made, that it has even points, even verneers, and even inner points. I only have three custom cues, but I have not had any problems with the cuemakers I have went to. I am getting ready to have anther cue made in December and have already discussed this subject with the cuemaker. I don't think I'll have a problem this time either. I just hate to see people compromise for mediocrity when you can strive for excellence.

Jim

 

[blud]

duh

I don't think a pencil width would satisfy any one who posted here.

The width is the lead, not the whole thing.DUH!
blud

 

[blud]

cue

I wouldn't expect to have to pay more. I would expect a cuemaker to WANT to make them even, not just dimiss what players are saying about there cues. I would rather take my business to someone who takes pride in their artistic as well as mechanical ability. Just as Blud stated. "Perfectly" is a strong word. I expect that when I order a cue or send a design to have a cue made, that it has even points, even verneers, and even inner points. I only have three custom cues, but I have not had any problems with the cuemakers I have went to. I am getting ready to have anther cue made in December and have already discussed this subject with the cuemaker. I don't think I'll have a problem this time either. I just hate to see people compromise for mediocrity when you can strive for excellence.

Jim

AMEN, Jim.
Why some defend there poor work or will not make every effort to do jamb up work, is beyond me.
All of us screw up from time to time. Were all human. But if you don't care about doing your best to make it perfect, don't do it at all.
Jim, have you ever had one of my cues? Try it, you might just like it. My points are within a pencile width. The lead, not the whole pencile.
blud
for orders and discussions, 830-232-5991

 

[Teddy Harris]

The width is the lead, not the whole thing.DUH!
blud

Was he kidding? LOLOLOLOLOLOROTFLMAO!!!

 

[jhendri2]

Jim, have you ever had one of my cues? Try it, you might just like it.
blud
for orders and discussions, 830-232-5991

Blud,

Unfortunately I don't own one of your cues YET. Honestly, when I started deciding on a cuemaker this time, I knew about your wife and was afraid to burden you. I knew you had enough on on your plate as it is. You WILL be at the top of the list for my next one though.

Please wish your wife well for me.

Jim

 

[drivermaker]

AMEN, Jim.
Why some defend there poor work or will not make every effort to do jamb up work, is beyond me.
All of us screw up from time to time. Were all human. But if you don't care about doing your best to make it perfect, don't do it at all.

Now as far as I'm concerned, this is a good attitude in business and toward your cues. I think you'd start worrying about yourself and deteriorating skills if uncaught mistakes became the norm. EVERY cuemaker says the "hit" of their cue is different than the others and makes theirs stand out from the rest. Even Chris mentioned it about his cues, between a SW and a Meucci, just right. And I'm sure yours have a distinctive feel. So, that's a given on each of them. The rest of the job becomes the aesthetics, you can't stop at one or the other. A great looking cue that feels and plays like a piece of crap is no good either, it has to be a complete job. Otherwise, start knocking money OFF, not adding money on. If a cuemaker out and out f*#ks up with a clearly visible mistake, SOMEBODY has to pay the price, and it shouldn't be the buyer. Take money off if it can't be fixed and see what the buyer wants to do. Mistakes should never be rewarded with a full price.

 

[firemankc]

classiccues

Chris,
I don't know who you know that builds short splices but that person should give up cuemaking. That being said, YES it is quality if points are EVEN. It takes talent to make the points line up without the use of markers, or even compromising the internal integrity. It is also a sign of QUALITY if the veneers don't have gaps in them. I am not related to anyone that invented neckties but I absolutely am entitled to buy cues where the cuemaker actually took the time to build a nice cue, as opposed to some hack that made uneven, gappy points. What that tells me in the cue is MORE suspect because if he short cutted the asthetics God knows what else he short cutted in my cue.

Joe (---people who wear neckties should not operate lathes

Joe, will you be at Grady's Tournament in Gulfport, Ms Dec 8-12 Thanks, Casey

 

[Purdman]

Phillippi cues are notorious for stealing cue designs; they seem to see something they like and copy the design, for that reason many people I know don't like their work. Also they seem to want to cram to many inlays into the cue catering to the people who equate lots of inlays with value. I'm not a fan of their work and have never shot with one, I can tell you resale on them is tough, if you like the cue enjoy it for what it is.

Jim

I also might add, JimBo, what does your post have to do with Phillippi's cue making abilities?? You ever see anybody put more inlays than Ernie of Gina?
There are 590 inlays in the last one I saw. Only $8,500 five years ago. What's your point, you don't like Phillippi cues. Fine. How well does he build a cue? That was the question.
Purdman