Custom cue observation

barryc said:
Measureman, you're a faster learner than I am. Many of the custom cues Ted doesn't own I do (or did) especially Rundes. In my collection I have many and they do not all play well regardless of the maker or price. Even the cues from the same maker have a wide variation. This sample includes Richard Black, Rundes, Scruggs, Phillippi, AE, Davis blanks, SW, etc. In fact the best cue I ever used was a Mezz I got off the rack in a poolhall in Japan. When it comes to making balls it's a simple matter of what works. That being said, there are other reasons to own a custom cue just as there are reasons to own nice cars, nice clotes, shoes, golf clubs, or other things you truely can afford and appreciate. (bourbon comes to mind) The cue I play with was built by Kenny Murrell and it plays great. However, the best part is that it was designed jointly between the two of us. Every time I take it out of the case I enjoy the experience of having it made, it's simple elegence, craftsmanship, and and the way it plays. I play as well with a Schon ball for ball, but I really enjoy the Murrell none the less so that's waht I use. You don't need a Rolex to know what time it is but they sure sell a lot of Rolexes. (Damn, wish I had one!)

barryc
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Custom cues seem to be an addiction for us old guys that wanted nice cues when we were kids but couldn't afford one.
For the sake of full disclosure Bruce-measureman has another agenda.
He is positioning himself to be the National Guru of Production Cues, or NGOPC.
He neglected to mention that the Pechauer cue that Fatboy gave him has a tuned up shaft with an ivory ferrule.
That must of slipped his mind!
 
measureman said:
I have a p03 and it is not completely stock.
It has an ivory ferule and a layered tip so it probably hits a bit different then one straight from the maker. Should have said that in my original post.
Also I said "hit better enough to upgrade"
Some did hit better but not enough to spend the money required to upgrade. I hope this is clear now.
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I somehow missed this post disclosing the tuned-up shaft for your Pechauer. Don't worry though, you still have a future as the world expert for production cues. The PCA (production cue association) and the ICC(imported cue congress) don't know about the modified shaft for your Pechauer, and the custom work done to your Lucasi.
 
cuesblues said:
I somehow missed this post disclosing the tuned-up shaft for your Pechauer. Don't worry though, you still have a future as the world expert for production cues. The PCA (production cue association) and the ICC(imported cue congress) don't know about the modified shaft for your Pechauer, and the custom work done to your Lucasi.
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So now can I be Slighlty Modified Production Cue Guru ? SMPCG.
I have thought about not owning a cue that was owned by Ted and was going to sell him my two cues for $2.00 and buy them back for $2.25. But then i thought why would I want to be like most of the players here in Colorado. So I will remain in the MCWNOBT club.
(Ok for the letter challenged its My Cue Was Never Owned By Ted.)
 
Fatboy said:
i have played with custom cues that suck and production cues that play great. One thing that applies to all cues is the older they get the sweeter they play.
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Not all, methinks. It's a beauty to look at, but my completely original Palmer Model M from the 2nd catalog feels like I'm shooting with a length of galvanized pipe.
 
Just as an aside - or maybe shameless plug - I emailed Pechauer today, asking for advice on changing the weightbolt - they replied instantly, offering to send me a different weight for free - something I wasn't expecting!

And if it's the Indian not the arrow, how come there are millions of Indians who prize their arrows above their nearest and dearests? I don't see many pros using a house cue and every pro I've ever encountered played with a Pred.

I've only played regularly with one custom and I think it sucks. The owner, who's not much of a player, thinks it's great, even though he can barely make a ball with it. I see these cues for sale with people raving about them. Lots of 'emperors new clothes' when it comes to customs I think.
 
measureman said:
First off I am going to talk about hit and feel only.
For the last six months or so I have had the opportunity to hit balls with a lot of custom cues from many makers.
And so far I have not played with one that hit better enough then my Pechauer to upgrade to a custom.
This is not to say that some day I will not get one but I see no reason to spend the money simply for an upgrade in hit and feel where I see no difference that amounts to anything.
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Agreed. Playing a custom, in large part, is a prestige thing, like driving a Corvette to work instead of a Pinto. They both get you there. The shaft is everything, and whatever suits an individual is what they should play. I would never force myself to use a cue that doesn't work the way I want it to, because of who the maker is. My production players play great. The hit, feel, etc., is up there with anything I've tried. And aftermarket shafts can make or break the playability for the individual. I personally like heavy, straight grained maple shafts.
 
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I've played with custom cues for about 35 years. I've heard people say there are production cues that play just as good but you couldn't prove it by me. If I could find a production cue that played like any of the customs I've owned, I'd be playing with it. I like Pechauer, I think they are the best hitting of the production cues out there but there are custom cues I'd rather spend my money on. I've hit, but not owned, custom cues that didn't hit well, in my opinion, but I've never bought one I didn't like.
 
Measureman I will agree and disagree with you. I have a modified;) JP4 (factory that is, 12.75mm shaft, Everest tip and curly maple grip, no wrap). One of my best friends has a Crown Jewel. And I currently shoot with a very tricked out Josie sneaky. The Josie is head and shoulders above any Pechauer I have ever hit. It just plain outperforms every Peach I've ever shot.

Having said that I love my JP. I have a 3x5 case and it rides right next to my Josie. And I have no intentions of changing the araingment any time soon. I think Pechauers are some of the finest production cues out there. The reason I went with the Josie is I could change things and get things in my cue that Pechauer just won't or can do. It fits me perfectly. If Pechauer could make me what Kieth did I probably would have just stayed with the Peach.

Mark Shuman

PS: I could make you a 74 cracker box nova that left brown spots in you're undies. Ya just need the right pieces. A nice 410 small block with a pair of hairdryers and a strong 6 speed with safety tubes and some suspension and brake mods makes for a very interesting trip to Wally World.
 
phread59 said:
The reason I went with the Josie is I could change things and get things in my cue that Pechauer just won't or can do. It fits me perfectly. If Pechauer could make me what Kieth did I probably would have just stayed with the Peach.
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Now, that's interesting. The pretty much best player back in NY where I used to live wanted a Schon for years and years. He finally got one, one of the hand built ones by Evan? Anyway, he played with it for a while and one day tried out a Pechauer just for the hell of it. The next time I saw him he was playing with the Pechauer and when I asked him why, he said he could do things with it that he couldn't do with the Schon. That was the first time I'd heard it put like that.
I know you're talking about the way your cue was built but it struck me the same way.
 
I have primarily played with production cues for my entire pool life (McDermott and Meucci). At the beginning of this year, I brought a custom cue called "Calavera". It is basically a sneaky pete with ivory inlays and a Hoppe Ring. I really enjoy playing with the cue and I have received several favorable comments associated with the cue's playability and attractiveness. I have a pool associate who owns 2 custom cues a Tim Scruggs sneaky pete and a Bill McDaniels QJ5; I have hit with both cues extensively. Those cues also play very well. I think that playing with a custom cue provides a certain status to the player. I am finally at the stage in my 9 Ball game where I can often run several balls and people are checking me out more and asking "what cue are you shooting with". I think it is cool to tell them a "CUSTOM CUE" called Calavera. Thanks!
 
i have never had a custom cue or never plated with ome. have recently been thinking about getting one. my local pool hall has 3 new mike erwins for sale. they range from 650.00 to 2900.00. i must say the2900.00 one has some beautiful inlay work. been eyeing it every week for the last 2 months, just never can pull the trigger and buy it. i like some of the inlay work that chris hightower does but know nothing about him . anybody got any experience with hightower ?

i have 5 production cues that range from 350.00 to 1400.00 and really cant tell the difference in playability between them.
 
barryc said:
You don't need a Rolex to know what time it is but they sure sell a lot of Rolexes. (Damn, wish I had one!)

barryc
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I've owned quite a few custom cues over the years i've had my cue obsession and a few Schons and Pechauer cues. I've had leather wrapped cues, linen wrapped cues, lizard wrapped cues, and one of my current customs has an elephant ear wrap which I like the feel of a lot.

Every time I got a new or different cue I had to get used to the feel of the cue meaning how the cue deflected using side spin. Any cue hits pretty good using center ball or high or low english, but when you start hitting off center you open up a new problem. I found that some cues deflect more or differently than other cue makers or production cues. Tip hardness, shaft taper, and density of the wood all play a part in how a cue deflects so saying one cue plays better than another could come down to the shaft on either cue more than who made the cue or how much it cost.

After going through many cues customs and production a friend of mine talked me into trying a Predator shaft and after I gave the shaft a couple of weeks to get used to it I was hooked on LD shafts. Now when I get a new or different cue I put the original shafts up and screw on a Predator 314-2 shaft and I pretty much know how it's going to play. I couldn't say that if I used the shafts that came with the cue because of the factors I listed above.

I don't have a large cue collection like some of the members on this forum, but I have a couple of custom cues, a wrapless Jacoby, and a McDaniel "Mac Attack". One of my custom cues is an Ed Prewitt fancy cue that I bought more because I wanted it and I liked the looks of more than it would play better than what I was playing with. I think the fancy custom cues are for people who can afford them and just want to own them more than they are for people to use as a regular every day player. Just like Rolex watches. You don't need a Rolex to tell the time, but it sure looks good on your wrist and a fancy high end custom cue doesn't make balls any better than my Jacoby wrapless cue or my McDaniel Mack Attack. It just feels good to me playing with a fancy cue and I may not play any better than I do with my Jacoby or my McDaniel, but it's fun thinking i'm playing better.......

James
 
Pushout, to answer you're questions, yes and yes. I got a linnen melamine joint in the Josie, not available in Pechauers. I got a radial pin in the Josie, also not available in a Peach. Got an amazing piece of Bocote in the Josie. Haven't seen any in Pechauer's cataloge. There are a number of other things as well. But I'm sure you got the picture.

As for how they play. The Pechauer is no slouch. But it just can't keep up with my Josie. Now before I get stoned here let me say I am a newer player. I am not as skilled as many of you A-Zers. I can get the cue ball to do things with the Josie I can't do with any other cue. It makes using english effortless. It many times imparts too much english. For example I had a cross table 3/4 length shot at a ball I jawed earlier in the match. It was right on the shelf. I wanted to come off the object ball and move slightly left and not scratch. I hammered it with about a tip and 1/4 of low right english. I slammed the OB in and whitey just did doughnuts right in the entrance to the pocket. It musta made 6 complete circles in front of the pocket bouncing off the nipples. I have never seen anything like it before. And I have seen similar wierd super english effects subsequently. Case in point. My home table in 8 ball is a new Valley. It has that damn rubber backed fuzzy cloth with the Gigantor cue ball. 3 weeks a go I was down at the one corner on the rail with my OB on the reail. I wanted a bit of draw. So I increased my bridge length and gave whitey a good shot. Made the ball and drew the length of the table and scratched in the other corner on the same rail. That's the most draw I have seen anyone get out of that table.

The ability of this Josie to play soft, hard and apply english with very little deflection is unreal. But then you never know maybe I got one of those once in a lifetime cues everyone here talks about. I'm not going to ever sell it. I will admit it may just be a superior cue in an inferior's hands. So take the above with a grain of salt.

Mark Shuman
 
phread59 said:
Pushout, to answer you're questions, yes and yes. I got a linnen melamine joint in the Josie, not available in Pechauers. I got a radial pin in the Josie, also not available in a Peach. Got an amazing piece of Bocote in the Josie. Haven't seen any in Pechauer's cataloge. There are a number of other things as well. But I'm sure you got the picture.

As for how they play. The Pechauer is no slouch. But it just can't keep up with my Josie. Now before I get stoned here let me say I am a newer player. I am not as skilled as many of you A-Zers. I can get the cue ball to do things with the Josie I can't do with any other cue. It makes using english effortless. It many times imparts too much english. For example I had a cross table 3/4 length shot at a ball I jawed earlier in the match. It was right on the shelf. I wanted to come off the object ball and move slightly left and not scratch. I hammered it with about a tip and 1/4 of low right english. I slammed the OB in and whitey just did doughnuts right in the entrance to the pocket. It musta made 6 complete circles in front of the pocket bouncing off the nipples. I have never seen anything like it before. And I have seen similar wierd super english effects subsequently. Case in point. My home table in 8 ball is a new Valley. It has that damn rubber backed fuzzy cloth with the Gigantor cue ball. 3 weeks a go I was down at the one corner on the rail with my OB on the reail. I wanted a bit of draw. So I increased my bridge length and gave whitey a good shot. Made the ball and drew the length of the table and scratched in the other corner on the same rail. That's the most draw I have seen anyone get out of that table.

The ability of this Josie to play soft, hard and apply english with very little deflection is unreal. But then you never know maybe I got one of those once in a lifetime cues everyone here talks about. I'm not going to ever sell it. I will admit it may just be a superior cue in an inferior's hands. So take the above with a grain of salt.

Mark Shuman
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Nope, I got one too. :thumbup: Please tho', it's spelled Josey.
 
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My dog was cheaper and better than your dog.

measureman said:
First off I am going to talk about hit and feel only.
For the last six months or so I have had the opportunity to hit balls with a lot of custom cues from many makers.
And so far I have not played with one that hit better enough then my Pechauer to upgrade to a custom.
This is not to say that some day I will not get one but I see no reason to spend the money simply for an upgrade in hit and feel where I see no difference that amounts to anything.
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I'm happy that you're happy.:wink: You really are relentless in promoting whatever you're playing with -- first it was 200 posts bragging about your wonderous Lucasi and the last 200 posts promoting Pechauer.

It really comes down to what your'e comfortable and familiar with in most cases. Why the continuous attempts to make everyone else appear inferior and pompous because we choose to play a higher cost "something" we actually prefer and enjoy?
 
Jigger said:
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I'm happy that you're happy.:wink: You really are relentless in promoting whatever you're playing with -- first it was 200 posts bragging about your wonderous Lucasi and the last 200 posts promoting Pechauer.

It really comes down to what your'e comfortable and familiar with in most cases. Why the continuous attempts to make everyone else appear inferior and pompous because we choose to play a higher cost "something" we actually prefer and enjoy?
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I'm not trying to insult or put anyone down. You play with what you like.
As far as the Lengendary Lucasi that is more of a running joke on AZB more then my trying to make the cue more then what it is.
My intent on starting the thread was not to put down people who play with custom cues but rather to say that I have not yet found one that plays better enough to upgrade and spend the money required. I have hit with customs that hit better then my Pechauer but not enough to switch.And if I do find a cue that plays much better then an upgrade is certainly possible.
No disrepect was intended to anyone. I think it's turned out to be an interesting thread.
 
measureman said:
I'm not trying to insult or put anyone down. You play with what you like.
As far as the Lengendary Lucasi that is more of a running joke on AZB more then my trying to make the cue more then what it is.
My intent on starting the thread was not to put down people who play with custom cues but rather to say that I have not yet found one that plays better enough to upgrade and spend the money required. I have hit with customs that hit better then my Pechauer but not enough to switch.And if I do find a cue that plays much better then an upgrade is certainly possible.
No disrepect was intended to anyone. I think it's turned out to be an interesting thread.
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Has it occured to you that perhaps you are not adequately sensitive to
be able to accurately distinguish between the quality of "hit" of cues?

Dale
 
pdcue said:
Has it occured to you that perhaps you are not adequately sensitive to
be able to accurately distinguish between the quality of "hit" of cues?

Dale
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pretty rude man since we, and i mean i, would always give anyone leeway on whether or not THEY, i repeat THEY feel a difference. but if you know better than him go for it
 
pdcue said:
Has it occured to you that perhaps you are not adequately sensitive to
be able to accurately distinguish between the quality of "hit" of cues?

Dale
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I've been playing for 50 years with a lot of differant cues. And if you read my first post I said I can not see any big differance.
It is my personal observation only.
 
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