Cut the Purple right off the Purpleheart!

GrimmCustomCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
About 3 years ago I bought some nice purpleheart SP blanks. They have just been hanging enjoying the weather in my shop for years. Today I decide to start turning them down to use and they went from purple to brown after 1 pass as you can see in the pictures. I've had purpleheart in the past that was brown, Ive had purple heart that turned brown with age but Ive never cut the purple right off it before.LOL! I've been turning a bunch of purpleheart squares down and they all have stayed purple. After each turn I seal them with Cyno and hang them back up which was the plan with these blanks too. Is there anyway to prevent this?

Before


After
 

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
About 3 years ago I bought some nice purpleheart SP blanks. They have just been hanging enjoying the weather in my shop for years. Today I decide to start turning them down to use and they went from purple to brown after 1 pass as you can see in the pictures. I've had purpleheart in the past that was brown, Ive had purple heart that turned brown with age but Ive never cut the purple right off it before.LOL! I've been turning a bunch of purpleheart squares down and they all have stayed purple. After each turn I seal them with Cyno and hang them back up which was the plan with these blanks too. Is there anyway to prevent this?

Before


After

Nothing to prevent it that I know. In my experience, that happens all the time with purpleheart. It will be purple again in a few weeks. Light exposure will hasten it.
 

carguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is normal.
Just put them in a sunny window for a few hours...you'll be good to go.

Robin Snyder
 

GrimmCustomCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks, I must have been in La La land while I was turning down my squares because I have never noticed that. I was just worried because my customer asked for a "Purple" purpleheart SP. Thanks again guys for your time, I appreciate it.

Rich


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whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
It comes back with light .... you don't need to seal it after every cut with CA............ That's Joe's procedure.... totally not necessary

Kim
 

GrimmCustomCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really Kim? I've been doing that for years, and I hate doing it because of the fumes. I've always thought that was a requirement!


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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Really Kim? I've been doing that for years, and I hate doing it because of the fumes. I've always thought that was a requirement!


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You seal with CA every turn ????:eek:
That's gonna kill you. Grab some sanding sealer and thin it a little.

How dry does it get in your shop ?

I don't bother sealing purpleheart . They are one of the most stable species there is . I just seal on the last pass.
 

GrimmCustomCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You seal with CA every turn ????:eek:

That's gonna kill you. Grab some sanding sealer and thin it a little.



How dry does it get in your shop ?



I don't bother sealing purpleheart . They are one of the most stable species there is . I just seal on the last pass.


I've always been told not to rush anything, so about every 2 or 3 weeks I make a single pass on all my current cue projects. On all the remaining wood in my shop I make a single pass about every month or so. My shop is basically a room in my house with my dust collection piped in so it's pretty dry. All my wood is stored on top my shelves close to the ceiling, and my projects are all hanging from those shelves. Ofcourse that is the warmest part of the room. I've always used my DC to pull the cyno fumes out of the shop. Cyno for sealing is something I started doing when I started this venture years ago and never thought to change it. Ha! That's what Joe said to do in his video so that's what I've been doing. LOL! Now that I know it's not needed I'm not gonna do it anymore. Sanding sealer sounds like a much better idea! Thanks Kim and Joey for the info, probably saved me quite few years on my life.


Rich



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Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've always just hung It near the lights in the shop, and rotate the pieces every so often to make sure all sides are evenly exposed. Once It becomes purple enough for My taste, then I seal It in.
 

Paul Dayton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Purple heart and bocote are among the very most stable woods we use and there is absolutely no reason to seal either wood. For that matter, the only wood I ever seal between turnings is snake wood. If the wood isn't seasoned enough to turn, I don't turn it.
 

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Purple heart and bocote are among the very most stable woods we use and there is absolutely no reason to seal either wood. For that matter, the only wood I ever seal between turnings is snake wood. If the wood isn't seasoned enough to turn, I don't turn it.

Maybe I was misunderstood, but I don't seal It in between turning, only when I'm ready for finish. That's the only point where I'm actually concerned with the color anyhow, so sealing before that would be pointless for My turning schedules.
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I never seal anything except just before the finish. Shafts... I cut them in steps slowly over a couple months. Butts.... I make them like a baseball bat the then taper them to 100 over size in one setting. Then I let it hang for a week before the final cut.

Kim
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to chime in here on this one with all the experts.

Sealing is a preventive measure and is taught that way for a reason. We sell video's to people in Florida, Alaska, Vegas, Illinois, Canada, Europe, Asia and even South Africa to name but a few areas. Working with wood in Vegas is much different than working with wood in Miami. We have no idea where our video's will be teaching someone and as such we have to teach one method that will work regardless where a student resides.

Sealing is the best method so that they don't end up with firewood regardless where they reside. This is of course assuming the wood is ready to turn. To tell someone that you don't seal and that it's not necessary is irresponsible and shows no concern for them or anyone other than ones own self.

Just because you've had success with not sealing doesn't mean they will. Do you know where they reside? Have you seen their shop? Are there any nuances that you might also want to add to your procedure of not sealing so that you can steer them in the right direction? Blanket statements (I never seal or it's not necessary) are never in anyone's best interest. Perhaps your shop is just perfect since many here are experts and teach others but perhaps their shop has no humidity controls as do the experts so it's going to react differently. Seasoned wood in Vegas is going to swell when shipped to Florida and seasoned wood in Florida is going to shrink when shipped to Vegas. Open pores will take on or release moisture; period.

The more responsible statement would be something like this. It may not be entirely necessary to seal after each turn but you should experiment with several piece of wood to see how that works for you before going cold turkey on your entire inventory and or listening to all the experts here on AZ. You can use a clear wood sealer instead of cyano. You don't want to use products in Home Depot that are for lumber or furniture as they tend to discolor the wood but some experts here may disagree. We like clear products that don't yellow.
 

GrimmCustomCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to chime in here on this one with all the experts.



Sealing is a preventive measure and is taught that way for a reason. We sell video's to people in Florida, Alaska, Vegas, Illinois, Canada, Europe, Asia and even South Africa to name but a few areas. Working with wood in Vegas is much different than working with wood in Miami. We have no idea where our video's will be teaching someone and as such we have to teach one method that will work regardless where a student resides.



Sealing is the best method so that they don't end up with firewood regardless where they reside. This is of course assuming the wood is ready to turn. To tell someone that you don't seal and that it's not necessary is irresponsible and shows no concern for them or anyone other than ones own self.



Just because you've had success with not sealing doesn't mean they will. Do you know where they reside? Have you seen their shop? Are there any nuances that you might also want to add to your procedure of not sealing so that you can steer them in the right direction? Blanket statements (I never seal or it's not necessary) are never in anyone's best interest. Perhaps your shop is just perfect since many here are experts and teach others but perhaps their shop has no humidity controls as do the experts so it's going to react differently. Seasoned wood in Vegas is going to swell when shipped to Florida and seasoned wood in Florida is going to shrink when shipped to Vegas. Open pores will take on or release moisture; period.



The more responsible statement would be something like this. It may not be entirely necessary to seal after each turn but you should experiment with several piece of wood to see how that works for you before going cold turkey on your entire inventory and or listening to all the experts here on AZ. You can use a clear wood sealer instead of cyano. You don't want to use products in Home Depot that are for lumber or furniture as they tend to discolor the wood but some experts here may disagree. We like clear products that don't yellow.


Thanks Joe for chiming in. I am experimenting, one piece with, and one piece without General Finishes sanding sealer to see the differences over time.

Rich


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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I'm kinda with Joe on this one, to an extent. Sealing isn't going to hurt anything. Whether it helps or not is dependent on many variables. It's up to the builder to understand his own unique situation and to create a method that fits.

That said, you simply don't know if a wood is ready for turning or not until you turn it. If it moves, then you should likely seal it & put it away for a while & forget about it. Then again, some pieces move no matter how old they are or how careful the builder is with cutting & sealing them. It's wood, from trees, a natural material with an infinite number of things that can go wrong. I spend years monitoring specific trees that I believe will make nice shafts, and after I'm convinced that the tree is healthy and hasn't been traumatized in it's life, I cut it, mill it, dry it, and make shafts from it. I lose on average 30% at every step of the process. Regardless whether I do everything correctly or not, the wood moves & nothing I can do will prevent it. There are stresses(urges to move) that no kiln schedule can relieve, and we must accept the reality of it. Not every piece of wood we have will become a trustworthy cue. Some wood will be trash, and it's matter of fact, regardless of species or cost. On the same token, some woods are so incredibly stable that it's almost impossible to make them warp. Nature of the beast. The best thing to do is keep track of how things happen in your shop, how much loss you have on average, and adjust the price of your cues to absorb the cost.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I'm kinda with Joe on this one, to an extent. Sealing isn't going to hurt anything. Whether it helps or not is dependent on many variables. It's up to the builder to understand his own unique situation and to create a method that fits.
But, would you ever use SUPER GLUE TO SEAL purpleheart after EVERY TURN ?

Sealing isn't going to hurt anything ? Let's say someone has a shop that maintains 75 degrees and 45% . 24 hours a day. It's just a theory but, there has to be someone who does that . Someone in Alaska or Manila. What good is sealing purpleheart and bocote for him with SUPER GLUE?
I sure hope he's breathing supplied air.
 
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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
But, would you ever use SUPER GLUE TO SEAL purpleheart after EVERY TURN ?

Sealing isn't going to hurt anything ? Let's say someone has a shop that maintains 75 degrees and 45% . 24 hours a day. It's just a theory but, there has to be someone who does that . Someone in Alaska or Manila. What good is sealing purpleheart and bocote for him with SUPER GLUE?
I sure hope he's breathing supplied air.

You're over generalizing what I said. I never advocated the use of CA for sealing. I merely stated that sealing doesn't hurt anything. And really, what does it hurt? It slows, not stops, the rate of exchange of moisture. Wood that's not sealed is more able to "breathe" and be affected by temperature and humidity swings. In your 75 deg. 45% humidity shop, wood will equalize at 8.4% moisture content. If this stays at a constant, as you say, then it doesn't matter whether you seal the wood after a cut or not. It'll be 8.4% regardless. The equalized moisture content doesn't change by removing material. At the same time, sealing won't help anything, either. Movement at this point is due to internal stress, not moisture loss. But though it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt, either. It's moot.

This is where builders would do themselves a huge service by studying & understanding wood for the material that it is. Many attribute movement to moisture exchange, when that is only a factor early on while the wood is drying. Most movement is due to internal stress. In extreme temperature swings, wood takes on a plastic like personality. It will become more pliable as it heats up, and stiffer as it cools. It also relaxes as it heats & contracts as it cools. It's not a conductor so it's not stable like a metal. It's more like a plastic. Furthermore, each species is completely different and pieces within a particular species can even vary tremendously. There's a bit to learn, but it's well worth the effort to educate yourself on the subject. Then you understand the "why" when things happen, so it's not just blind speculation. Understanding the "why" allows one to make appropriate adjustments. Or as I have found, it allows one to realize there's often times nothing at all you can do. Stressed wood moves, regardless of how careful you are or how much you seal it. Cues left in the trunk of a car will warp and there's nothing you can do about it. Cues built in the PI where they are equalized at 23% moisture, and shipped to AZ where they re-equalize to 3.5%, you can bet on movement and rings/inlay popping, etc. Builders must know wood. Simple as that.

Take it one step further. You have that 75*x45% shop and you buy a load of shafts that are kiln dried to 6%. They soon equalize to 8.4% in your shop, then you ship a finished cue to Tucson. No matter how well you seal that shaft, are you confident that it won't warp as it re-equalizes to the new climate? Keeping your shop stable is fine in a perfect world where the cue will always be kept in the same stable environment. But in the real world, pool players do what they do & cues warp. Nothing we can do will prevent it. Sealing won't help, only slow it down. Instead of warping within days, it does it within weeks. Depending on how well the player cares for the cue, it may take years. But it WILL happen if there's even the slightest hint of internal stress. Most pieces of wood have some level of stress, some obviously more than others. Very few shafts make it decades without moving, and it's not the builder's fault if they don't, or his credit if they do. It's the character of wood. This is stuff cue makers must learn, and stuff buyers must accept. It's an inevitable plausibility.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
If I had a 75* 45% 24 hours a day, I wouldn't trust the shafts from moving
while they're on a plane on the way to Singapore or Taiwan.
One of the biggest names in cues is widely accepted there
to show some wobble in their shafts. They do have a curved taper so that wobble is magnified.
Their shop has to be
totally climate controlled bc of where they are.
Totally controlled shop and magic dip like nelsonite work for some though.
 
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