I dont know if this is a proper question to ask but how do players (who need road money) cut up the prize money in tournaments. I know in poker tournaments they do it all the time. I mean in the finals does one player offer another to make it a fifty-fifty split. Ive heard guys like Jimmy Rempe talk about "savers". I cant believe that in a winner take all like the $50,000.00 CHallenge of Champions that the loser walks away with nothing. Also Ive heard winners of a high stakes action game will give the loser "get out of town money", from his share of the winnings. Which I think is admirable and fair. If you dont want to comment on money thats fine. I understand. Best of luck.
cutting up the cash
- Thread starter yobagua
- Start date
Keith McCready
Pro Player
yobagua said:
Yobagua, usually, you have an agreement before you go on that road trip. The way I've always done it, the expenses come off the top and then you split what's left, 50/50.
After I break somebody, I can't wait to give them out-of-town money because I know I got that "W," which means win, and any pool player, especially if I like them, I will be more than happy to give them out-of-town money. I don't like to leave a pool player broke. That's just the way I've always been because I know what it's like to get broke, and if we're friends, I'm not afraid to ask either if they break me. It's always common courtesy.
As far as savers go, they have to really be a good friend in order for me to save, but it usually is not much, but it is something.
See that's useful info that people just don't teach, I would have never though about out of town money not that I'm in any position to get that "W".
I was talking to a guy last night that told me he won $2500 one night playing pool in Alaska, when it was time to leave he told me his opponent and some friends followed him outside and beat his ass, only the police happening to show up saved him from a further beating, perhaps if he had offered some out-of-town money he wouldn't be so ugly.
I was talking to a guy last night that told me he won $2500 one night playing pool in Alaska, when it was time to leave he told me his opponent and some friends followed him outside and beat his ass, only the police happening to show up saved him from a further beating, perhaps if he had offered some out-of-town money he wouldn't be so ugly.
I heard that in the recent Pechaeur tour stop at Panama Reds in Oregon that Paul Potier and Mike Vidas on their way to Reno were playing partners 50/50. From what I understand Potier and Vidas had to play each other halfway early and Potier let Vidas win so Potier could head back through the losers and ended up winning. Vidas got 4th. So they split $1000 total dollars. Plus they had money on the Calcutta which made them extra dollars based on where they placed...and how much they bought each other for.
INTERESTING! The reason I started this post was that I always heard Jim Rempe an old tournament pro talk about it. How 2 guys who ended up in the finals cut up the cash. Refering this to "keepers" or "savers" where every one would go home on Sunday with some cash in their pocket. Ive also heard Grady a dyed in the wool Hustler/Gambler disdain such practices. I also heard that in the World Poker finals one year Doyle Brunson won the bracelet with a terrible hand. But a buddy of mine said it didnt matter they had an agreement in the end that they would split the cash and just wanted to get the long tournament over with, so they just played out the next dealt hand. Also heard that in last years World series poker tournament Chris Moneymaker the rookie that won it all offered the other guy a similar deal but the other guy refused thinking that he was the big favorite.
This is important knowledge for us guys who like to "sweat" a bet on the side. I mean if I dont end up in the finals of a tournament I would like to get a bet down. And I just couldnt believe at the end of the Tournament of Champions that second place went home with nothing.
Thanks to guys like Keith who is willing to take the time to talk with us we can get a deeper inside on the game and its machinations.
This is important knowledge for us guys who like to "sweat" a bet on the side. I mean if I dont end up in the finals of a tournament I would like to get a bet down. And I just couldnt believe at the end of the Tournament of Champions that second place went home with nothing.
Thanks to guys like Keith who is willing to take the time to talk with us we can get a deeper inside on the game and its machinations.
Yeah with the Calcutta, and Vidas getting 4th and Potier going through the winners and getting 1st they got $1600+ after their calcutta payouts. If Potier had beat Vidas and Vidas lost they would have only wound up with $1200+. So by doing that they made more money.
I made a mistake last night that I won't do again. Slap me now. I was playing in a 9ball tourney, playing the best I had in a while. Tough tourney, got to the match to play for point. I am friends with the guy I had to play. I knew I was playing good and could beat him easily. He asks before we play if we want to split what we make. Foolishly I say okay. I beat him 3-0. He waits for the losers bracket to meet him, is cold, and loses to get 3rd for $30. I beat the guy that beat him for first and got $90. I had to give him $30 because I decided to split with him. Sometimes if it is late and the losers bracket guy beats the point guy the first set it might be okay to split. But I made the decision too early. I should have said "if I win point and you come back and beat me the first set then I'll split." But not until that point. Stupidity.
Now if you make that pact before the tourney starts...that is a whole another issue.
I made a mistake last night that I won't do again. Slap me now. I was playing in a 9ball tourney, playing the best I had in a while. Tough tourney, got to the match to play for point. I am friends with the guy I had to play. I knew I was playing good and could beat him easily. He asks before we play if we want to split what we make. Foolishly I say okay. I beat him 3-0. He waits for the losers bracket to meet him, is cold, and loses to get 3rd for $30. I beat the guy that beat him for first and got $90. I had to give him $30 because I decided to split with him. Sometimes if it is late and the losers bracket guy beats the point guy the first set it might be okay to split. But I made the decision too early. I should have said "if I win point and you come back and beat me the first set then I'll split." But not until that point. Stupidity.
Now if you make that pact before the tourney starts...that is a whole another issue.
I have gone into tourneys with buddys before and we agreed long before we got there that we were going to split anything we won.
When we met up late in the tourney on the winners side, it was always expected that the one who was playing better would lose the match because they had the best chance to ride the losers side and meet up in the finals.
Mike
When we met up late in the tourney on the winners side, it was always expected that the one who was playing better would lose the match because they had the best chance to ride the losers side and meet up in the finals.
Mike
AzHousePro said:
When I’ve done this before, it never seems to fail whom my first round opponent will be. The pool Gods act in mysterious ways. I wonder how often this happens?
Rick
dumping
the above posts about savers - how can pool players brag about about losing on purpose, then wonder why pool does not attract sponsorship. here is some typical bar box IDIOT that states how stupid he is for not allowing another player to win , because it cost him the VERY large sum of 30.00. AND TO MIKE, the LEADER of this forum stating that he condones this kind of behavior. not very smart MIKE. {of course this is only MY opinion, does not really matter} i can understand Buddies agreeing to - winner buys dinner etc. but thats it> Keith is talking about road trips, not going to your bar around the corner. as far as REMPE goes, he is a DUMP artist. HE once told ME that if i ever see HIM gambling that it is PRE arranged, he either loses or wins depending on the BET. {great guy to be in the hall of fame, in my he opinion is a PUNK} have a good day - oldman, aka JMB {minneapolis minn.
the above posts about savers - how can pool players brag about about losing on purpose, then wonder why pool does not attract sponsorship. here is some typical bar box IDIOT that states how stupid he is for not allowing another player to win , because it cost him the VERY large sum of 30.00. AND TO MIKE, the LEADER of this forum stating that he condones this kind of behavior. not very smart MIKE. {of course this is only MY opinion, does not really matter} i can understand Buddies agreeing to - winner buys dinner etc. but thats it> Keith is talking about road trips, not going to your bar around the corner. as far as REMPE goes, he is a DUMP artist. HE once told ME that if i ever see HIM gambling that it is PRE arranged, he either loses or wins depending on the BET. {great guy to be in the hall of fame, in my he opinion is a PUNK} have a good day - oldman, aka JMB {minneapolis minn.
I
instroke
Guest
Generally if I go to a tournament with someone then I often make a saver before the tournament starts. It could be that if either of us makes enough from tournment that we pay the other guy's entry fee or a percentage split. If we both feel like we have an equal shot at winning we will ususally make a deal for a 50% split on anything won.
If I am at a tournament and I get near the finals I will often split first and second to get out faster - especially if the payout is lopsided as seems to be the practice these days.
I have seen things like 1st is $250 and 2cnd $100 or 1st $200 and 2cnd $180 either way I am probably going to split.
The only thing about savers on the pro level is whether the finalists are really trying to win once the saver is made. I imagine they are because the winning is MORE important than the money I think.
JMO,
John
If I am at a tournament and I get near the finals I will often split first and second to get out faster - especially if the payout is lopsided as seems to be the practice these days.
I have seen things like 1st is $250 and 2cnd $100 or 1st $200 and 2cnd $180 either way I am probably going to split.
The only thing about savers on the pro level is whether the finalists are really trying to win once the saver is made. I imagine they are because the winning is MORE important than the money I think.
JMO,
John
Wow! I really regret starting this thread on Keiths section. It makes me sad to hear that people will commit themselves to losing just to get more money on the end. Say it aint so Mike!. I can see trying to win and then helping a tournament buddy out with the prize winnings. Kind of like backing each other. But to lose on purpose. Kind of makes me appreciate quitting pool in my 20's to concentrate on my career then coming back when I had more time and money. Back then there was all kind of scams. Dumping backers, stiffing opponents, not paying tournament winners, strong arming winners, etc. I thought the game had cleaned itself up. But I remember when R.A. beat D.D. in a one hole match for 10 large after RA got his cut he gave DD some cash to pay for his hotel and transportaion charges. (this is out on tape done by Jay H} I was more interested in these kinds of magnanimous gestures.
I have bet on you and against you Keith. I always felt I got my money's worth. You always tried to run out when you got to the table and you often did.
I have bet on you and against you Keith. I always felt I got my money's worth. You always tried to run out when you got to the table and you often did.
There was a big tournament in Las Vegas around '93 or so. The thing about this tournament was the sports book posted odds and took bets. Funny thing was that Mike Lebron wins it, I forgot the odds but he was a huge long shot, rumor has it the fix was in.
Anyone else remember this tournament? I would like to hear if anyone else heard about this?
Anyone else remember this tournament? I would like to hear if anyone else heard about this?
Big Dog, I think you are referring to the Challenge of Champions. This is the big $50,000, winner take all, event that they hold at the Mohegan Sun casino each year. I have heard rumors about what went down at that event, but I don't know any facts. Lebron must have really been hitting them good though.
As for me condoning dumping a match when playing against a buddy, I hardly think that me (or my partner) dumping a match to each other in a little penny ante barbox tourney is the reason that pool is in the sad shape that it is.
I wasn't dumping so we could fleece my backer, I wasn't dogging shots in a ring game so we could rob the third player in the game. I was just playing so that my partner and I had the best chance of profitting from the tournament.
Anyone who was affected by this, was going to have to go through one of us anyways. We just made it a little tougher game for the opponent.
Mike
As for me condoning dumping a match when playing against a buddy, I hardly think that me (or my partner) dumping a match to each other in a little penny ante barbox tourney is the reason that pool is in the sad shape that it is.
I wasn't dumping so we could fleece my backer, I wasn't dogging shots in a ring game so we could rob the third player in the game. I was just playing so that my partner and I had the best chance of profitting from the tournament.
Anyone who was affected by this, was going to have to go through one of us anyways. We just made it a little tougher game for the opponent.
Mike
Sorry Mike but if I was the tournament director or owner of the bar and knew you were intentionally losing games I would have to give you a loss and ban you from playing again.
As for someone like Paul Poitier who charges a couple of thousands of dollars to attend his Pool School who would intentionally lose a match to gain a couple of hundred more on the outcome. It is a shame and a loss of integrity. In the back of my mind I would be thinking can this guy be trusted and is he just interested in the tuition.
But anyway I started this thread to Keith to find out how Pros deal with an equitable settlement. Keith has said he is always willing to give someone out of town money and he will ask for it if he gets broke. Or he might give up part of the purse to a friend that he beat. I dont think we ever talked about dumping a match.
As for someone like Paul Poitier who charges a couple of thousands of dollars to attend his Pool School who would intentionally lose a match to gain a couple of hundred more on the outcome. It is a shame and a loss of integrity. In the back of my mind I would be thinking can this guy be trusted and is he just interested in the tuition.
But anyway I started this thread to Keith to find out how Pros deal with an equitable settlement. Keith has said he is always willing to give someone out of town money and he will ask for it if he gets broke. Or he might give up part of the purse to a friend that he beat. I dont think we ever talked about dumping a match.
About five yrs back I got back into pool after 40 yrs away.
The first tournament I went to the dominant players from the Quad Cities got together to make sure they got 1st and 2nd by one of them dumping a match on the winners side.
They met for the final the next day. I drove 100 miles to watch them play and they refused to play. They just split the 1st and 2nd place monies. The TD told them they had to play so they racked the balls and one of them just shot in the 8...to lose... on every rack.
When I complained to my friends they just smiled and said "Welcom to pool'.
No integrity. Cover your own ass. Keep your eyes wide open. Trust nobody. .......and so on.
No matter how old I get I still get bummed out about being involved in something where integrity doesn't count and the longer I'm around the clearer I see that there is less and less of that commodity in every aspect of life. The money comes above anything and everything else most of the time. It ain't supposed to be this way and it ain't right. I quit crying about it years ago but it still ain't right. Dumping aint right. Period. End of story.
The first tournament I went to the dominant players from the Quad Cities got together to make sure they got 1st and 2nd by one of them dumping a match on the winners side.
They met for the final the next day. I drove 100 miles to watch them play and they refused to play. They just split the 1st and 2nd place monies. The TD told them they had to play so they racked the balls and one of them just shot in the 8...to lose... on every rack.
When I complained to my friends they just smiled and said "Welcom to pool'.
No integrity. Cover your own ass. Keep your eyes wide open. Trust nobody. .......and so on.
No matter how old I get I still get bummed out about being involved in something where integrity doesn't count and the longer I'm around the clearer I see that there is less and less of that commodity in every aspect of life. The money comes above anything and everything else most of the time. It ain't supposed to be this way and it ain't right. I quit crying about it years ago but it still ain't right. Dumping aint right. Period. End of story.
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In this thread, there are several topics which are being intermingled: cutting up the cash, savers, and dumping.
Cutting up the cash. The winnings are divided between individuals: player and backer, player and road partner, or player and players who share expenses.
Savers. Two players, before the commencement of a tournament, may commit to each other that if one or the other makes it to first place, the other player gets a bone. The "bone," also known as a "saver," could be a percentage of the winnings or a flat sum, $50, as an example, in a purse of $500. This almost always only occurs between friends and doesn't affect the outcome of the tournament.
Dumping. When the outcome is predetermined before the commencement, it is known as a "dump."
ManlyShot
Cutting up the cash. The winnings are divided between individuals: player and backer, player and road partner, or player and players who share expenses.
Savers. Two players, before the commencement of a tournament, may commit to each other that if one or the other makes it to first place, the other player gets a bone. The "bone," also known as a "saver," could be a percentage of the winnings or a flat sum, $50, as an example, in a purse of $500. This almost always only occurs between friends and doesn't affect the outcome of the tournament.
Dumping. When the outcome is predetermined before the commencement, it is known as a "dump."
ManlyShot