Cuttung shots with inside english.and the contact point.

[LAMas]

The only time I use center ball is when I need it, usually a stop shot or straight draw, so not that often. Otherwise I aim outside the crease, even if it's an eyelash, I push in or out. It doesn't matter if it's a full hit or 90 degrees, I hit what the game asks me to do, or I will quit forever.

On cut shots I use whatever I need in order to control the cue ball. What good is cutting a ball and losing the cue ball. If I need to hit 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 o'clock that's what I hit, it's about cue ball control, it's just another shot.

If I had to cut a ball steep and not worry about the cue ball (Which is something I never do) I would favor inside.
If you can't hit center ball at will you have no business pushing to the sides. Different strokes for different folks.

Sincerely: SS

Those locations on the OB will yield different cut angles like fractions. I will look into what those angles are.

Thanks,
Be well.

Edit:
5:00 and 7:00 would be 1/4 OB an would yield a 15 degree cut angle.
4:00 and 8:00 would be ~1/10 OB and would yield a ~24 degree cut angle.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm pretty sure any regular player intentionally hits off the vertical axis all the time, without limiting their choices. Centerball (Touch of NothingTM) is the right choice for many shots. Avoiding it is needlessly limiting yourself.

pj
chgo

Patrick,

Naturally there are certain shots that come up that center ball is the prefered option. I & I don't think others avoid it when it is what is called for. However... I, & others just don't use it as our predominant shot.

I've been playing with outside & inside english for more than 4 & 1/2 decades. I've been using the slight inside tip location with a firm hit for the purpose of the squirt for more than 2 years now.

I don't limit myself in any way. I just do not try to use center ball along the vertical axis as my main shot. That's my choice & I doubt anything is going to come along to change that.

If You & others want to play trying to hit the exact center vertical axis as your predominant shot & think that you are consistently successful in that endeavor then that is certainly your choice & their choice.

Everyone should make their own determination & be responsible for how they choose to play.

To each his or her own.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[CJ Wiley]

the cue ball will mirror the follow through when done correctly

Thanks CJ,

Does the accelerating stroke cause the CB to slide and reduce swerve as well?

Be well.

You'll have to define "slide," and no, it actually will amplify "swerve," - a masse' shot is a good example of this.

There are two main types of stokes, one if for limiting the amount of after contact spin and movement, the other is best to create more contact spin and after contact movement.

One requires the acceleration to be exactly at the moment of contact, the other has a consistent acceleration through the cue ball.

When the follow through is extended it amplifies after contact cue ball reactions, and/or distance the cue ball travels. This is not the best stroke to play the game with, it's ideally used for shots that require you to "follow" the ball....the cue ball will mirror the follow through when done correctly.

The best stroke, in my opinion, to play the majority of shots with has a follow through equal to or less than the distance the cue is taken back. The acceleration at impact is what "Omaha John" used to call a "pop stroke," which has the same characteristics as those used to "snap" a whip, or cast a fishing lure.....of course it's a minuscule version.

 

[SmoothStroke]

Those locations on the OB will yield different cut angles like fractions. I will look into what those angles are.

Thanks,
Be well.

Edit:
5:00 and 7:00 would be 1/4 OB an would yield a 15 degree cut angle.
4:00 and 8:00 would be ~1/10 OB and would yield a ~24 degree cut angle.

Thank you for time. I just hit it where I feel comfortable and what feels right. I prefer to play center down from 3 to 9 on the cue ball.

I am not sure it matters, I will dig into the cue ball at 7:30 to 8:00. It helps me to lock in on a precise aim point to deliver true and accurate. The shot doesn't matter to me it's just another shot.

If the cue ball is on the rail we have to take the shot on the top edge, we have no choice. We must use any part of the cue ball for any shot and be comfortable doing so. If the cue ball is frozen to another ball and a small edge is all we have to hit, that's where we must strike, inside or outside it doesn't matter

Everyone plays by their own design and style, keeping it simple is an understatement.

I apologize for rambling on or derailing, its 5 am, I am on coffee and have a full day of training.
If I had to cut one ball and not worry I favor inside.
''I cut that one in from the parking lot''

Thanks again, have a great day.

Sincerely: SS

 

[ENGLISH!]

The only time I use center ball is when I need it, usually a stop shot or straight draw, so not that often. Otherwise I aim outside the crease, even if it's an eyelash, I push in or out. It doesn't matter if it's a full hit or 90 degrees, I hit what the game asks me to do, or I will quit forever.

On cut shots I use whatever I need in order to control the cue ball. What good is cutting a ball and losing the cue ball. If I need to hit 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 o'clock that's what I hit, it's about cue ball control, it's just another shot.

If I had to cut a ball steep and not worry about the cue ball (Which is something I never do) I would favor inside.
If you can't hit center ball at will you have no business pushing to the sides. Different strokes for different folks.

Sincerely: SS

About two(2) years ago, I made a similar statement about quitting if I had to only play center ball or only on the vertical axis.

I'm thankful to Mr. Wiley for introducing that tad of inside tip placement for the purpose of squirt here on AZB. That put a very powerful & effective tool in my tool box that I have come to use for more than 50% of the shots that I shoot.

I wish I had learned to see 'squirt' as a tool when I was young. Well, actually I'm sort of glad that I did not because if I had I may not have the family that I now have including my 16 month old 1st. Grandson.

I don't understand those that prefer or think that staying on the vertical axis should be the main way to play & I would guess that they don't understand us.

So... it certainly is as you say, 'Different strokes for different folks'.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[LAMas]

You'll have to define "slide," and no, it actually will amplify "swerve," - a masse' shot is a good example of this.

There are two main types of stokes, one if for limiting the amount of after contact spin and movement, the other is best to create more contact spin and after contact movement.

One requires the acceleration to be exactly at the moment of contact, the other has a consistent acceleration through the cue ball.

When the follow through is extended it amplifies after contact cue ball reactions, and/or distance the cue ball travels. This is not the best stroke to play the game with, it's ideally used for shots that require you to "follow" the ball....the cue ball will mirror the follow through when done correctly.

The best stroke, in my opinion, to play the majority of shots with has a follow through equal to or less than the distance the cue is taken back. The acceleration at impact is what "Omaha John" used to call a "pop stroke," which has the same characteristics as those used to "snap" a whip, or cast a fishing lure.....of course it's a minuscule version.

Thanks CJ,

By slide, I mean to not grab the cloth - low to no friction as opposed to rolling with constant contact.

Is Allen Hopkins's stroke a "pop" stroke? I called it a "punch" stroke.

Be well.

 

[duckie]

What gets me is this concern with degrees of cut angle and not really nowing if it really is a 30 degree cut or a 28 degree cut or 32 degree cut. Guessing at best is whats it is.

I never, ever have concerned myself with what the cut angle might when measured. The actual angle doesnt matter.

What matters is understanding about the relationship of energy transfer and cut angle. All that needed to know is that as the cut angle increases, less energy is transfer to the OB.

There is no need to concern yourself with something that doesn't matter such as what the actual cut angle is in degrees, cause it really is a guess anyway. Maybe 45, maybe 43 degrees, 30 minutes, 20 seconds.......this is one way angles are measured.

 

[LAMas]

About two(2) years ago, I made a similar statement about quitting if I had to only play center ball or only on the vertical axis.

I'm thankful to Mr. Wiley for introducing that tad of inside tip placement for the purpose of squirt here on AZB. That put a very powerful & effective tool in my tool box that I have come to use for more than 50% of the shots that I shoot.

I wish I had learned to see 'squirt' as a tool when I was young. Well, actually I'm sort of glad that I did not because if I had I may not have the family that I now have including my 16 month old 1st. Grandson.

I don't understand those that prefer or think that staying on the vertical axis should be the main way to play & I would guess that they don't understand us.

So... it certainly is as you say, 'Different strokes for different folks'.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

Rick,

We all have to deal with squirt/deflection away from the stroke line even if we don't understand the physics. It is a component of aiming that can be used or eliminated by hitting the CB at it's vertical center line.

As I said, I use inside with its attendant squirt to double the distance on thick shots when shape requires..

I prefer to aim with center ball and try to shape for the next shot that I can use center ball if I can. I thought that I had more control of the results using it. I took it for granted that I was hitting center until someone said that I was stroking a bit to the left of center, a photograph confirmed this and why I would miss straight in shots.

I studied Efren's CB cue address and he often starts with the tip of his cue aimed at the bottom on the CB so I started to do that to align my body and eyes to center my perception of what was the real center. If I then missed a straight in shot, it was my stroke that was off.

If I don't hit the center of the CB, it will cause the OB to go right or left of the aim line. Without knowing to which side, I can't compensate for it. With TOI I know to what side the OB will go and I can compensate or use it. The OB will only go to one side or straight.

But that's just me.

Thanks and be well.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,

We all have to deal with squirt/deflection away from the stroke line even if we don't understand the physics. It is a component of aiming that can be used or eliminated by hitting the CB at it's vertical center line.

As I said, I use inside with its attendant squirt to double the distance on thick shots when shape requires..

I prefer to aim with center ball and try to shape for the next shot that I can use center ball if I can. I thought that I had more control of the results using it. I took it for granted that I was hitting center until someone said that I was stroking a bit to the left of center, a photograph confirmed this and why I would miss straight in shots.

I studied Efren's CB cue address and he often starts with the tip of his cue aimed at the bottom on the CB so I started to do that to align my body and eyes to center my perception of what was the real center. If I then missed a straight in shot, it was my stroke that was off.

If I don't hit the center of the CB, it will cause the OB to go right or left of the aim line. Without knowing to which side, I can't compensate for it. With TOI I know to what side the OB will go and I can compensate or use it. The OB will only go to one side or straight.

But that's just me.

Thanks and be well.

E,

I'm with you. Hitting the exact center vertical axis is difficult, if not impossible to do repeatably & consistently. By that I mean, putting the center of a 3 mm contact spot on the infinitely small center line of a 2 1/4" sphere. 1.5 mm to either side & it's completely off of the center line. To me, that's a rather small margin for error for a normal human beings physical capabilities. Do I attempt it when I think it's call for? Yes, absolutely.

When I was 13 turning 14, I started using english. My focus was on the swerve as that is what I saw near the OB as that is where I was looking when I stroked a shot.

Had I been a CB looker when stroking, perhaps I would have picked up on the squirt aspect, but I did not. So... I've basically ignored the squirt aspect, a least consciously for 45 years until I got back more seriously into the game & looked into the LD shafts. Then as fate would have it, Mr. Wiley comes on AZB & introduces me to a means to use the squirt as a 'friend' instead of a foe.

Each of our journeys is different.

To me, using the squirt as Mr. Wiley does makes the game mentally more easy. With other methods the 'stress' is getting the correct line to cut or bank a ball. But... when using the squirt getting the line is simple as it is either CTC or CTE. I've added the center of the CB to the 1/4 line between C & E as I'm now using OB Classic & Pro LD shafts.

I don't think there are two individuals living that play in exactly the same manner, not even twins, maybe similar, but not exactly the same.

We are all individuals. Hence, that is what makes the game & the world interesting.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There are two main types of stokes, one if for limiting the amount of after contact spin and movement, the other is best to create more contact spin and after contact movement.

One requires the acceleration to be exactly at the moment of contact, the other has a consistent acceleration through the cue ball.

I don't think any of this makes sense, but especially the part in blue. Acceleration is the same whether it happens "exactly at the moment of contact" or consistently throughout the stroke. To the CB it's all the same, since it only "feels" the tip/ball contact. In fact, only the speed at contact matters - whether the tip is accelerating, decelerating or coasting doesn't matter.

Maybe understanding these terms a little better would help.

When the follow through is extended it amplifies after contact cue ball reactions, and/or distance the cue ball travels.

This is not true. The CB has no way to "know" whether you follow through or not, since it's long gone by then.

It may be true that an extended follow through helps to keep your stroke straight and the speed right, but it's not the follow through that affects the CB; it's the speed and angle of tip/ball contact (which can be accomplished with or without extended follow through).

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't think any of this makes sense, but especially the part in blue. Acceleration is the same whether it happens "exactly at the moment of contact" or consistently throughout the stroke. To the CB it's all the same, since it only "feels" the tip/ball contact. In fact, only the speed at contact matters - whether the tip is accelerating, decelerating or coasting doesn't matter.

Maybe understanding these terms a little better would help.


This is not true. The CB has no way to "know" whether you follow through or not, since it's long gone by then.

It may be true that an extended follow through helps to keep your stroke straight and the speed right, but it's not the follow through that affects the CB; it's the speed and angle of tip/ball contact (which can be accomplished with or without extended follow through).

pj
chgo

Patrick,

Does what one does before contact with the ball affect what happens after contact with the ball...biomechanically?

If two different things occur during contact will the result be the same?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Patrick,

Does what one does before contact with the ball effect what happens after contact with the ball...biomechanically?

If two different things occur during contact will the result be the same?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

I don't understand your questions.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't understand your questions.

pj
chgo

Nevermind.

I was going to retract them anyway.

Best,
Rick

PS But that is interesting.

 

[Mikjary]

Patrick,

Does what one does before contact with the ball effect what happens after contact with the ball...biomechanically?

If two different things occur during contact will the result be the same?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

Hey Rick,

I'd say yes and no. And I think you'd agree with me.

Best,
Mike

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hey Rick,

I'd say yes and no. And I think you'd agree with me.

Best,
Mike

Hi Mike,

That is probably partly why I was going to retract the questions as they were not specific enough in how they were asked.

Best,
Rick

 

[LAMas]

Like a glancing blow with an open bridge where after impact, you notice that the cue is in the air and off of your V

Hi Rick and Mike,

Force of Glancing Blow

The force of collision between an airliner and a duck can be diminished greatly if the duck bounces off. The impact force is given by:



The impact force is reduced by the fact that the change in velocity is much less for the glancing blow. The vector addition which gives the final velocity shows that for a small angle deflection, the velocity change is small. The change in velocity may be calculated using the law of cosines. In the elastic case where initial and final speeds are equal, the half-angle formula may be used to obtain a simplified expression.


Be well.:wink:

 

[ENGLISH!]

Like a glancing blow with an open bridge where after impact, you notice that the cue is in the air and off of your V

Hi Rick and Mike,

Force of Glancing Blow

The force of collision between an airliner and a duck can be diminished greatly if the duck bounces off. The impact force is given by:

View attachment 376284

The impact force is reduced by the fact that the change in velocity is much less for the glancing blow. The vector addition which gives the final velocity shows that for a small angle deflection, the velocity change is small. The change in velocity may be calculated using the law of cosines. In the elastic case where initial and final speeds are equal, the half-angle formula may be used to obtain a simplified expression.


Be well.:wink:

But if the Duck veered up just before impact...

Of if the airliner veered down just before impact...

Does the duck spin more or less?:wink:

Best 2 You,
Rick

 

[HawaiianEye]

I don't know anything about ducks. Most of my shots are harder than duck shots. Maybe my break ain't so good. I like making every shot hard. Anybody can shoot ducks. I like shooting pool. I like banging stuff around and watching things happen. It looks so much prettier of a run if you can luck a few whirlybird shots in early...then bang a couple around a rail or two and fling them in. Then make the one and only straight-in shot you ever have and it's up real close...the money ball.

I like getting lucky.

 

[Mikjary]

But if the Duck veered up just before impact...

Of if the airliner veered down just before impact...

Does the duck spin more or less?:wink:

Best 2 You,
Rick

I think you're getting off on a tangent (pun intended).

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

I think you're getting off on a tangent (pun intended).

Best,
Mike

I think that you are taking a "swipe" at Rick.:wink:

Be well.