D Appleton is against pivoting for spin ?
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
Strikes the long rail beyond the 1-ball.
Where on "the long rail beyond the 1-ball"? And then what? And how does a "non-traditional english stroke" help?
pj <- don't see a lot of future in this "conversation"
chgo
you're either REALLY patient or incredibly bored. i think most of us get the fact that a 'swoop' into the cb has no benefit.
well stated.
The stroke may be made without a swoop.
Different cue stick path, different cue ball path.
The only thing that matters is the tip's direction of travel at contact - how it gets there (the "cue stick path") is irrelevant.
In other words, an arcing tip does nothing to the CB that a straight-path tip can't (in case you haven't heard that before).
pj
chgo
I agree.
"Different cue stick path" means "different cue tip path" as when we discussed C-D and C-E tip paths and paths between the two.
Pronating or supinating the wrist can create a different tip direction at contact than the traditional english stroke.
Yes it can! ("will" or "does" also could be used in addition to "can") Are you referring to dynamically? This could be
completely off the table for those who play like their wrist is in a cast with no bend at any point for all shots.
It'll make no sense.
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A traditional wrist position and straight stroke can create any desired tip direction at contact. So what’s the advantage of non-traditional?
By the way, I think pronate/supinate mean to rotate your forearm (like turning a key). Maybe you mean “tuck” and “cock”?
pj
chgo
"Cock" position is if you made a fist and held your arm straight out in front of you and then rotated your thumb (fist) straight upward or back toward you the way a hammer on a revolver would be "cocked". "Arched" is the same fist position but now bent or turned inward with the closed fingers facing your upper body/armpit and the wrist bone bowed outward.
"Bent" or "Cupped" wrist is when the fist/back of the hand rotates towards the sky creating an angle between the back of the hand and wrist/arm.
Doing it dynamically or preset with pool cue in hand does change the shaft angle from the original static position.
So what's the advantage? It may or may not be for you. Try it and find out on the table. It gets the cue angled for the english
like a pivot but with a pivot the back of the wrist stays straight.
There's ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat in the pool stroke and ways of doing things. Personal preference and success dictates.
Exactly. I think the only thing a last-second wrist action can do that a straight stroke cannot is provide extra speed just before contact. The whipping motion could be like the "hinge" action/point that occurs in a good golf swing. Other than more speed, nothing special happens with a flick of the wrist.
Huh? Is this from experience or imagined? I'll go with imagined because you said "I THINK" instead of "I KNOW FOR A FACT".
It isn't a "flick" of the wrist. Whether it's pool or golf the slightly altered 'position' of the wrist will alter the shaft angle in pool or the club face angle at impact with the ball in golf. If it was straight at address, it will be open or closed at impact if the wrist becomes "cupped" or "bowed" somewhere in the swing. For a pro, they could do it intentionally to get a fade or a draw just like a pool player can do it for different reasons.
Oh God, with you this is going to turn into some kind of novel with 35 different chapters coming from every galaxy in the universe. I can't wait for the "mind's eye" and all of its possibilities for perfection.
Only if it's a movement of the grip hand straight along the stroke line - what we're discussing here is a movement of the grip hand sideways, across the stroke line, creating the "pivot".
Whether the grip hand is moved sideways before or during the stroke, the elbow is no longer directly above the stick, which forces an arced tip path. In case my point isn't clear yet, an arcing tip is inherently less consistently accurate - and no more effective even when dead on - a bad trade.
pj
chgo
MajorMiscue
Democat
Why wouldn't the movement be from the shoulder?
Then there would be no need for wrist movement and the elbow remains above the stick, allowing a straight stroke along the stroke line - that's the better alternative. (Of course, then ideally a slight shift in stance should also be made so everything remains in "traditional" alignment.)
pj
chgo
Where does it go if it isn't above the stick and a tip pivot is about 1/4 of an inch to get done what needs to be done?
And a parallel shaft/tip position is inherently very inconsistent WITHOUT factoring in deflection and throw. It's a guess.
And some kids learned to "paint by the numbers with watercolors, or color with crayons by the numbers" to stay within the lines like you do with pool and straight/parallel everything with the cue. And others learned to be more artistic and creative to go outside the lines and rigid ways of thinking to get the job not only done, but to be MORE consistent and accurate since it CAN be DONE that way.
Kinda like when baseball first came to be. Throw the ball straight over the plate and let 'em try to hit it. Then they learned how to throw curves, screwballs, knuckle balls, sinkers, etc. from a different hand/wrist movement and delivery angle. Sure made the game better and more exciting.
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