D Appleton is against pivoting for spin ?
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
He certainly seems to be against anything like "backhand english".
Everyone is equal on how they accomplish being good at something.
wtf????????????
So you lost your Ovaltine Decoder Ring, try eBay for replacement.
Go stalk someone else.
Seems his objection is all about swooping the stroke to apply side spin, which of course everybody advises against. Does he know BHE can be done without that?
pj
chgo
It can but you're changing the natural stroking line
The natural (whatever natural means) stroking line is the line that makes the OB go in coupled with English. Describe what it means to you and how it's done otherwise. It might require a different initial aim line but that's no big deal.
He never does say what he's aiming at on the OB or where and if there's an adjustment.
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I'm guessing what Joey means is your stick/stroke ends up angled across your line of stance/sight. That can be true unless you do something about it - such as adjust your stance while/after pivoting.
pj
chgo
Based on where the OB is on the table along with the CB for a corner pocket shot in the video, you don't have to do much of anything. Certainly not adjust the stance.
For those who have a table, set the balls up the way he has it in the video. Aim CCB to COB with the center of the cue as if you're going to hit the OB into the rail to the right of the pocket. Then PIVOT to the right 1/2 tip so the left edge of the ferrule is now at the center of the CB. No adjustments have to be made with the stance or anything else. Stroke the cue along the new cue line.
We're not talking about a major pivot or angled cue to begin with. No need to bring deflection or anything else into the topic.
The ball will go in for a normal size tip. A little more pivot might be required with smallish tip sizes.
There are two ways to pivot...with the backhand or a slight rotation with the hip known as a hip pivot.
Assuming that happens to be the amount of spin you need.
Except that's only one of many possible cut angles.
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The tip's contact point might be influenced by the tip's curvature, but not by its width.
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pj
chgo
I think a good method to use when BHE is being incorporated is as follows: After pivoting to the desired english, pay attention to the line that the cue is on, then stand up and come into the shot on that line. This ensures that your stroke and your body/stance is in tune with the shot. You can be more consistent if your body mechanics are always on line with the shot, rather than occassionally having your grip hand tucked in or pushed out.
The main problem with BHE is that it works great a certain speed, but doesn’t work so great at varying speeds. So, for most shots, it really boils down to experience with speed and spin, not to exact predefined backhand pivot.
The main problem with BHE is that it works great a certain speed, but doesn’t work so great at varying speeds. So, for most shots, it really boils down to experience with speed and spin, not to exact predefined backhand pivot.
It's not a trick shot competition to get the ball going five rails.
So what? Do you think the aim line is still center to center or might it be somewhere else? You wouldn't know because your experience with it is zippity do da. You're mister parallel shift for English and then calculations for squirt, throw, fart wind, and
other forces of nature.
Your posts are a broken record. Btw, there's only one dumb ass on the planet I've ever heard of that uses a 10mm tip to play pool with and that's you. You're just so damn good with it I can't figure out why the entire pool playing population over the last 3 decades hasn't switched over to what you do. What is everyone missing out on?
The WIDTH of my tip is 13mm. The WIDTH of your tip is 10mm which equals a 3 mm difference. The CONTACT POINT on the tip IS the same on both cues. However, the tip/ferrule is used for the amount of PIVOT or CUE ANGLE. Sometimes there is a FULL TIP PIVOT but even 1/2 can make a difference in ball separation and distance from the pocket.
Are you going to tell me there's no difference in a 3mm angle or a 1 1/2mm angle on where the CB is sent to strike the OB?
The contact points on the Joe Tucker training balls are 2 1/2 to 3mm each which means an entirely different cut angle. If you don't get it right, the shot will more than likely be missed depending on how close or far away the OB is from the pocket or the CB and OB are from each other.
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No Brian, that's not good. Not good at all. First of all, pivoting a half tip to a full tip doesn't screw anything up because it's so minimal. Like I said, you can make a hip pivot with just a very slight rotation of the hip for the 1/2 to 1 tip. Apparently, you have very little experience if any with pivoting. If a player is specifically using contact points or fractions (which you teach), the alignment from a pivot would screw the entire process up. Come to think of it, how do you make an adjustment for the fractional aim point based on varying amounts of English that may be required?
It doesn't matter what you use, speed (especially warp) or super soft is going to affect something. We're talking about normal speeds to work your way around the table. Speed also applies to a parallel shift for English regarding squirt and throw. Not just BHE. When using BHE the aim point on the OB is always a little thick or thin to begin with so it's factored in.
For the shot in the video, I specifically said the aim is center to center pre-pivot and pre-stroke. Center to center on that shot would have driven the CB into the end rail without the pivot. The specific pivot amount changes the cue angle to where it needs to be for pocketing the shot as well as get outside English.
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Devolving the thread/moment. NiceSo you lost your Ovaltine Decoder Ring, try eBay for replacement.
Go stalk someone else.
.Your perspective/thoughts/above comments, make me laugh and reminded me of visiting my grandson for his BD last week.
He just turned 10 and he had his 8 yr old twin sister in his room because I came to visit.
All 3 got up at 6 am and were sitting on the couch/cartoons.
G/the 10 yr old, started picking on his younger sister because, his blanket was taken by her in the middle of the night.
He knows she does this when she has a bad dream.
BUT......Instead of saying to his sister, Allie, you must of have a bad dream last night.
He did this...... he verbally attacked her about ''taking his blanket''.
I nodded to him to talk in private. Being GrPa, I wanted to help him/ALL, and stop the day from starting off in this manner, we both smiled/moved on/he grew up a little more.
CCCowboy, give me blanket back NOW. LOL
And I won't tell you about the Ovaltine.
Watch the second shot in this video. Is this what you refer to as changing the natural stroking line? If so, why does the OB go exactly where he wants it to go? How did it hurt him or the shot?
BC21 said:
Not good at all? Lol....I disagree. Imagine that.
And you asked how I adjust a fractional aim point for varying amounts of english.... Well, the same way you adjust the CTE perception or final solution to account for any english being used - experience.
With fractional aiming, the fractional aim line is the main aiming reference. The body and stroke are aligned on this line. If using english, the line is shifted at a slightly different angle, which means the fractional aim point is shifted left or right of the main reference, so the body and stroke now should be aligned to this shifted aim line.
I made a video a while back showing what I think is a good way to train your mind and eyes to pocket balls more consistently when using english. It's all about getting your body, your machine-like muscle memory, lined up correctly.
It probably only applies to "noser" style aiming (ghostball, contact points, fractional, etc...).
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He first talks about lining up to ccb then pivoting (bhe) to your desired english. He says that's not good. I'm 100% with him on this, because it gets your stroke out of whack with your body alignment, and that opens the door for inconsistency. Then he talks about swooping to the desired english on the final stroke, which is also a bad thing laced with inconsistency.
It is hard to imagine since we're normally like two peas in a pod with our thinking and technique.
Experience always come into play, but it doesn't take place the same way you're describing it in the video. The final solution for english is actually the FIRST visual solution. You aim at COB, A, C, or EDGES. Then make the pivot in tip segments from CCB.
That's it.
How is that determined for the amount and what do you specifically aim at? The fraction needed to make the shot without english? A specific new and different fraction? How many to the right or left? Is it "feel"/guesswork, or a specific measured distance? If specific, where is it located from the "no english" fraction?
I can do "noser" aiming. It's called Shishkabob which is really STICK/CUE/PIVOT aiming. And it doesn't resemble what you're looking at as far as complexity and all the other guessing going on. Now, for OUTSIDE ENGLISH this video shows how the aiming is done SPECIFICALLY with CB to OB. There's only 3 aim points and then a pivot to the outside. He calls it splitting the difference.
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You do realize the very small pivot necessary for bhe doesn’t get your stroke or body out of whack