Do you teach sidearm stroking to your students because McCready makes it work?Unless you're a pro who uses them on every stroke (like Bustamente).
pj
chgo
D Appleton is against pivoting for spin ?
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
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pj
chgo
Why not simply tell them to hit below the CB's "3D center" for draw? That works with or without purposely elevating the butt - and it clearly teaches what happens at a physical level.
If the sensation of hitting the CB with the upper part of the tip (i.e., hitting below the 3D center) is new to them, it's no wonder they have trouble with draw. Apparently they haven't learned the simple dynamics of how it actually works. Teach that, not a limited-use workaround.
pj
chgo
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MajorMiscue
Democat
Buste uses a very loose grip and hides the English he intends to use very well but I don't see him swooping, ever.Unless you're a pro who uses them on every stroke (like Bustamente).
So, what's it called when all of his practice strokes are low extreme left on the CB right at cloth level with the final stroke striking anywhere and everywhere on the CB to make the OB?
How else would it be classified? DYNAMIC REDIRECTION? How is the English hidden when it's apparent the way the CB reacts after contacting the OB and then a rail or rails?
It's interesting. There are well-known coaches who advise that if you want to draw the ball back, lower your bridge hand.
Here BilliardsAbout talks about raising the stroke hand.
There's a very accomplished Philippine player locally who uses his legs. He's aiming at center ball, and during the final forward stroke, he either straightens his legs a bit to add draw, or bends his knees a little more to add topspin. I should add that nobody tries to copy his technique.
I support Dr. Dave's work and he supports that I teach some unusual methods.
See my post #201 where an arcing or pre-supinated wrist stroke sends the cue ball to Y, not X, with only english off one rail, no topspin or draw. Thanks.
That is a thoughtful question you've asked. If a player already uses a sidearm stroke well I'd not ask him to change, because a good coach (in all stick-and-ball sports) coaches around player idiosyncrasies.
Some teachers have too many pet theories, but others are too rigid. If I can show a player a "cheat stroke" that saves him 5,000 more attempts at draw or whatever, what is the harm?
There are advantages to a the center bridge draw stroke, it may be used for 90% of draw strokes, it is quite easy to control the cue ball's distance after impact with the ob, and the ball tends to come precisely straight back on a full hit.
Students are thrilled with the results.
The harm is that you've taught something with its own built-in problems that might take more thousands of attempts to discover and overcome, if ever.
pj
chgo
Thank you for your observation.
There are numerous pros who on numerous shots cue, stance and practice stroke to a different cue ball spot than where they hit the cue ball. I mentioned for example Tom Kennedy (we spoke on the phone a few hours ago to say hi). TK will bring all kinds of english strokes to what he calls "back to center", meaning he is stroking to center cue ball about a ghost ball back of the cue ball before diverting.
I assume you mean "draw stroke with a raised butt".
How is that easier with a raised butt?
Raising the butt increases any unintended masse effect, making it more likely the CB won't come straight back.
pj
chgo
No disrespect toward Dave but he proved that he cannot do it. A more convincing demonstration might be seen if a pro player who believes in swoop can prove that it does do something, rather than an amateur player who does not believe in swooping showing that he cannot benefit from it. BTW I'm in the camp saying that swooping won't help, but that's really just an assumption on my part.
MajorMiscue
Democat
That's why I asked if he intended to demonstrate the benefit of swooping with a video like Dr Dave did. Talk's cheap.
Not just the more well-known coaches, Gerry--almost 100% of instruction books, videos and teachers have one lower one's bridge hand, and have done so for a century or longer. But would you consider trying a technique I've taught a lot of students--a technique that pleases them?
And I wouldn't suggest raising the bridge hand above the regular bridge used for center cue ball. You simply address center cb and elevate the butt a minute amount (easy to overdo so be careful) and give yourself angle to work with.
A classic draw stroke requires a deft touch to pull off precisely, because the bridge hand is lowered only, the cue is near level and when forcing draw action with a vigorous stroke, slight to major miscues can happen. (And we've all seen good draw players get too much or too little cue ball roll for position, right?)
But what if I wanted to achieve a piqué stroke (extreme backspin)? I'd elevate the cue greatly and stroke softly. By simply leaving your bridge hand in place and raising the butt slightly, then stroking softly with your regular center cb stroke, you give yourself a steeper angle and better control of the mass of the cue ball and better tip contact ("better" meaning striking with the top of the cue tip every time and banishing forever those jumped and stopped "draw shots").
I've had students who've struggled with draw a long time perfect their draw with this technique in a few moments. To me, perfect technique means drawing STRAIGHT back a PRECISE distance at will--we're talking on like the second or third try at the most.
Try this stroke? Place the cue ball a foot behind the ob and draw back on a full hit. I think you'll be pleased.
PS. It bears repeating. Leave the bridge hand like you would typically. Raise the cue butt a tiny amount. Stroke softly, with no "wrist snap" or etc. since there is now no need to do so for precise, repeatable draw action.
I don't mean "classic draw stroke but with a raised butt" since I advocate not lowering the bridge hand/not spreading the bridge fingers/bridging to center ball. If you've struggled with this stroke, use a shorter bridge as you learn it.
The stroke works for precise, repeatable draw and most amateurs over- and under-draw all the time, especially when the pressure is on. Let's alleviate their misery however possible.
Sorry, I reread your #220 and now see by "demonstrate" you were suggesting a video. That is a good idea.
And I hear you, talk is cheap, but I've been talking about techniques I have taught many individual students and in many group clinics. Every player who has shot the wristy swoop strokes and the non-wristy center draw strokes has been made happy.
Thanks, Dan. I think that is Spider's point above. There are pros who demonstrate every day in play that it works for them, extremely well.
Can a wrist or arm movement alter Newtonian physics? Of course not. Can a little-known technique(s) that many pros use help make it easier to aim spin shots, whether vertical axis, side or both. Oh . . . . . . yes indeed.
Might not matter. I've learned that many people on AZ are going to believe what they want to believe despite iron clad evidence to the contrary. It's actually pretty remarkable.
MajorMiscue
Democat
It won't affect my game. I won't be swooping any CBs.