DCC one pocket speed-up rule

[lfigueroa]

UPDATE: Steve McD. at Diamond msg'd me back. What he said: at the end of an inning if more than four balls are in the kitchen ALL of them spot. He said its purely due to time constraints. He's fully aware that some purists are hot but that's how they're gonna do it. They want a more offensive/aggressive game to speed it up. I also asked about a clock and they looked it and came to conclusion that it wouldn't stop the up table play which was their main concern. Said the rule changes at the 2/3 hour point weren't doing enough. Nice guy, fast replies with well explained answers. He said they got together with numerous top 1p legends when doing these changes.

I doubt anyone is “hot” about it.

And you don’t have to be a purist to understand what they’re doing is not 1pocket but a new game designed to get as many entry fees as possible.

As to the top legends consulted that’s got to be some kind of joke. The top legends don’t care what rules they have to play by because at the end of the day, if it’s got a table with balls on it they’re going to win anywhos.

Lou Figueroa

 

[garczar]

I doubt anyone is “hot” about it.

And you don’t have to be a purist to understand what they’re doing is not 1pocket but a new game designed to get as many entry fees as possible.

As to the top legends consulted that’s got to be some kind of joke. The top legends don’t care what rules they have to play by because at the end of the day, if it’s got a table with balls on it they’re going to win anywhos.

Lou Figueroa

that's what he told me. call HIM up and call HIM a fkng liar. he said numerous players were consulted. shit bro, just don't play.

 

[lfigueroa]

that's what he told me. call HIM up and call HIM a fkng liar. jackoff.

I did not say he didn’t tell you that.

And, I did not accuse him of being a liar.

Lou Figueroa

 

[skogstokig]

I don't understand why the DCC immediately goes to implementing ridiculous rules before trying more sensible options. A few sensible options include:

1. Limit the entries as SJM suggested

2. Increase the entry fee by an amount that is enough to make some people think twice about entering and a smaller increase for the re-buy

3. Enforce existing other rules like the dress code

4. Implement all three of the changes above together.

Two years ago, my match started late, and the time police came to put us on the clock because our match was over the prohibited time (but we just started). We had explained this to the tournament desk, but I guess there was no communication between the desk and the enforcers (another charming aspect of the DCC). While the time debate ensued, I couldn't help but notice that my opponent was basically wearing pajamas and was blatantly in violation of the dress code that required a collared shirt or henley.

I plan on going this year, but this rule change does increase the probability that I will choose to take my pool playing money to some other event.

lfigueroa pointed this out to me on pocket sizes years ago, and he has said as much in this thread, but I want to say it the way he said it to me years ago. He pointed out that as pocket size decreases, it initially makes the game more difficult, but as the size continues to decrease, it has to change the game. It changes how players make decisions, and the game changes. At some point, it becomes a different game entirely.

The same goes here, and lfigueroa has pointed this out. This rule change is big enough, that DCC one pocket is some new game. It's not the game that one pocket players love.

kollegedave

tighter pockets is fine but not for a pro am event and not for the same tables they play banks on. they tried 4.25" one year and went back to 4.5" after one or two years

 

[lfigueroa]

that's what he told me. call HIM up and call HIM a fkng liar. he said numerous players were consulted. shit bro, just don't play.

ummm, I’m not ;-)

But that, nor you, is going to stop me from posting my opinion here.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Diamond rep consulting top pro player about new DCC one pocket rules:

DRep: “So, Tony, what do you think of these new rules we’ve made up to speed up the matches and make it a more aggressive game?”

TC: “What? Are you saying my game isn’t aggressive enough?”

DRep: “No, no, Tony. You’re plenty agressive (chuckle). But we want to speed up the matches and get everyone shooting like you do.”

TC: (glances at the new rules) “Can I still shoot at my hole?”

DRep: “Yes, yes. Of course, Tony.”

TC: “Rules are good by me.”

Lou Figueroa
consult over

 

[iusedtoberich]

Diamond rep consulting top pro player about new DCC one pocket rules:

DRep: “So, Tony, what do you think of these new rules we’ve made up to speed up the matches and make it a more aggressive game?”

TC: “What? Are you saying my game isn’t aggressive enough?”

DRep: “No, no, Tony. You’re plenty agressive (chuckle). But we want to speed up the matches and get everyone shooting like you do.”

TC: (glances at the new rules) “Can I still shoot at my hole?”

DRep: “Yes, yes. Of course, Tony.”

TC: “Rules are good by me.”

Lou Figueroa
consult over

ha ha! I'd actually believe this is exactly how it went down.

I'd love to know what "top players" told Mr Sullivan in the early 90's that his cushions and pockets were worth a damn.

 

[u12armresl]

Couldn't you pick the 5-10 super offenders who also play well (meaning they likely make it further in the tourney) and tell them they need to adjust or they just aren't allowed to play because of the problems to the other 400 people? (Nick comes to mind, unfortunately)

 

[manopr350]

This is not one pocket.

There's a lot of hand-wringing to justify this kind of crap to the tune of: oh, woe is me, what are we to do to get the tournament done in a timely fashion. Well, start by cutting off the entries at a manageable number.

The time limit is really and truly a joke because guys will play the clock as it winds down if they have a lead. I have had it done to me.

This is not one pocket.

Lou Figueroa

There is always Buffalo’s.., thank you Mr. Leone.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

The rules will not decide the victor of matches only will they somewhat occasionally alter the strategy used within those matches. Same players are going to win just because they’re the best players and that’s what they do.

Filler
Gorst
SVB
Alex
Lunda
Gomez
Chohan

Maybe
Robert’s, Billy, Pinegar, Hall, Skylar, Shuff, Krause, Yerry

Everyone else, thanks for coming out.

 

[lfigueroa]

The rules will not decide the victor of matches only will they somewhat occasionally alter the strategy used within those matches. Same players are going to win just because they’re the best players and that’s what they do.

Filler
Gorst
SVB
Alex
Lunda
Gomez
Chohan

Maybe
Robert’s, Billy, Pinegar, Hall, Skylar, Shuff, Krause, Yerry

Everyone else, thanks for coming out.

You are correct -- the rules won't change who comes out on top.

But if you want to play 1pocket, and not some gaffed up version of 1pocket, it's going to have an impact. Particularly when some Hoosier gets you 2-0 and decides every shot needs to be examined at length and the bathroom keeps beckoning him. Over the years I've had plenty of comebacks from 0-2 or even 0-3 in a race to four. I'm not sure I could even blame the guy I'm playing if he goes into a stall as the time limit approaches.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sjm]

i see your point but i think its time for the DCC 1p to be a 'elite' event and not just another 'dead money open'. say it was limited to 350, how many have a real chance ,say, of a top10-15? Not many. Most play in this just to say they did. Get 128 monsters and let 'em have at it. Even then you could probably name the top8 finishers right now.

This has never been Greg Sullivan's vision. I have discussed this topic with him a few times and he sees the Derby as an amateur event in which pros are allowed, not the reverse. There is no doubt in my mind that the amateurs have a lot to do with what's great about the Derby.

The only event meant to be exclusive at the Derby is the Bigfoot 10-ball.

 

[garczar]

This has never been Greg Sullivan's vision. I have discussed this topic with him a few times and he sees the Derby as an amateur event in which pros are allowed, not the reverse. There is no doubt in my mind that the amateurs have a lot to do with what's great about the Derby.

The only event meant to be exclusive at the Derby is the Bigfoot 10-ball.

Might as well just call it the 'Derby City Dead-Money Classic' then.

 

[Baby Huey]

Although I disagree with the rule changes, something has to happen to keep this event functioning. DCC needs the large attendance low entry fee's to allow lessor skilled players the opportunity to play with the greats of our game.

 

[kollegedave]

Might as well just call it the 'Derby City Dead-Money Classic' then.

What do you mean by "Dead Money"? I think people would be very surprised if Jeffrey De Luna won any event. Is he "dead money"?

Why don't we just have Filler and Gorst play an all-around and call it a day? I agree that most people in this event can't win. However, the dead money isn't only people who are amateurs...it's also pro-players. Look at the banners that have increasingly few players on them.

I, for one, don't want professional or amateur pool reduced to only those that are "not dead money", because that would leave maybe 10 players.

kollegedave

 

[garczar]

What do you mean by "Dead Money"? I think people would be very surprised if Jeffrey De Luna won any event. Is he "dead money"?

Why don't we just have Filler and Gorst play an all-around and call it a day? I agree that most people in this event can't win. However, the dead money isn't only people who are amateurs...it's also pro-players. Look at the banners that have increasingly few players on them.

I, for one, don't want professional or amateur pool reduced to only those that are "not dead money", because that would leave maybe 10 players.

kollegedave

Who do you think it means?? Its all the JoePublic guys that play just to say they they did. DeLuna is FAR from being dead money in any event. At the DCC 1p with 350 players at least 200 if not more are on the dead money list. My point is that reducing the field size would do wonders for speeding up the event. GS wants it to be a pro/am so be it. Its his baby.

 

[sjm]

Might as well just call it the 'Derby City Dead-Money Classic' then.

It has always been that, but most of us love it as is. It's an independent event that now has a 25+ year history, and interest in the event has grown and grown over the years, in part because entry fees tend to be just $100 per event.

Is there a non-major tournament anywhere that isn't 70% dead money. Even the last two Matchroom events, the European Open and the UK Open, were over 50% dead money, and the US Open 9ball is sure to be the same. Still, they are all great events.

Pool events in America have always had a place for the dead money players that want to try their hand against the best. The dead money players, as a group, figure prominently in bringing higher payouts to the sport. Why must that change?

 

[iusedtoberich]

Every event on the planet in any sport is dead money. Its the nature of a pecking order in any competitive event.

But what are you gong to do, have only 5-10 people play each tournament (in every sport)?

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[lfigueroa]

It has always been that, but most of us love it as is. It's an independent event that now has a 25+ year history, and interest in the event has grown and grown over the years, in part because entry fees tend to be just $100 per event.

Is there a non-major tournament anywhere that isn't 70% dead money. Even the last two Matchroom events, the European Open and the UK Open, were over 50% dead money, and the US Open 9ball is sure to be the same. Still, they are all great events.

Pool events in America have always had a place for the dead money players that want to try their hand against the best. The dead money players, as a group, figure prominently in bringing higher payouts to the sport. Why must that change?

Stu, I don't think the issue is "dead money' per se, it's more like the "no-money" players.

Guys who get in just to get the badge and entry to the event but have noooooo business playing. Over and over I have seen two guys draw each other in the first couple of rounds whose idea of playing 1pocket is to just bunt all the balls upstairs. And then they are in their comfort zone and their match goes forever. That, along with all the years the desk didn't keep track of which tables had completed their matches and were available for another was also an issue.

IMO, now in the era of FR, I think players should have a minimal level of proficiency to play. What? I dan't know like maybe a 575? Once again, from what I've observed over the course of over 20 DCCs and a couple of Tunica events is that most matches do not need special rules. But it's their event and they can do as they please but what they're doing... it's really too bad.

Lou Figueroa

 

[garczar]

It has always been that, but most of us love it as is. It's an independent event that now has a 25+ year history, and interest in the event has grown and grown over the years, in part because entry fees tend to be just $100 per event.

Is there a non-major tournament anywhere that isn't 70% dead money. Even the last two Matchroom events, the European Open and the UK Open, were over 50% dead money, and the US Open 9ball is sure to be the same. Still, they are all great events.

Pool events in America have always had a place for the dead money players that want to try their hand against the best. The dead money players, as a group, figure prominently in bringing higher payouts to the sport. Why must that change?

Depends on you goal i guess. I don't for one second see the interest in going to an event knowing before-hand you have ZERO shot at sniffing the $$. That to me is the beauty of FargoRate, you have a shot and aren't just pure cash-in-hand cannon fodder. Playing comp. far above my level and getting drilled to me has never been fun/beneficial. i don't think you learn anything getting run over.