debate on the 2nd ball break in 8 ball

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i know its ben debated before but the subject came up in my how ya'll doing in league thread.

i have posted on here that i think its pure luck but ... i have also told the story about an old road player making it 5 times in a row on me before i quit him.

well since we got bad weather and no league tonight i decided to practice the 2nd ball break here at home today.

i broke 20 times each from various positions with center , right and left english on the right side of the table since i am right handed.

her are my unofficial results from my unofficial test.:grin-square:

starting with the most popular position being on the line a a few inches off the rail.

inside english-more likely to move the ball towards the left pocket but more like to scratch in bottom right. another ball always hits the 8 stopping it from going in.

center ball. scratch every time, dont move the 8 much

outside english. moves the ball towards the left side pocket less likely to scratch. 8 ball had a clearer shot at going in left side pocket but always fell short , sometimes by mere inches.

unofficial conclusion- still a crapshoot if you make it or not.

interesting observation here though. using the 2nd ball breaking method greatly increases my pocketing a ball on the break. i almost always made a ball in the bottom left corner pocket.

my normal break is 1 diamond down and 1 diamond over and i have a lot of dry breaks. in summary i am changing my break to 2nd ball just to increase my run out percentage.:grin-square:
 
I play alot of 8 ball and that is my conclusion as well. I pocket more balls off the break by hitting 2nd ball.
 
I used to hate it but I'm coming around especially on a bar box. I think the key is hitting it with less velocity than a normal head on break.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
I don't blame you Rider.

My break for years was the same as yours. About the only thing that ever happened consistently was a dry break, spreading the balls around nicely for my opponent.

A few months ago, I started concentrating on the 2nd ball break at the urging of the team captain on the second team that I play on.

Previously, I had given up on this break as 95% of the time, I would scratch in the corner pocket.

Since I started seriously started practicing this break, I have gotten one 8 in on league and numerous 8s in playing.

I have got the distance out from the rail proper, English and shot weight.

The 8 is always on the move. Many breaks I have come way to close to putting the 8 in.

One thing is just about always guaranteed is that I always pot at least one ball and can continue playing.

Very frustrating to dry break and spread the balls around for my opponent. I know that I have put a smile on many peoples faces when they walk up and see what I have left them.

It adds so much extra unnecessary pressure to my game as I have to always keep my fingers crossed that I will get at least one shot at the table.
When I do, I have to make sure that I pot all or as many balls as I can as my opponent usually has one, maybe 2 balls left to pot.

Sure, pressure is fun but not when you put it on yourself darn near every game.

I have turned the tables considerably over the last few months practicing this break.
 
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StraightPoolIU said:
I used to hate it but I'm coming around especially on a bar box. I think the key is hitting it with less velocity than a normal head on break.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head. On a barbox with old balls that don't freeze up well etc I think its the way to go.
 
Using 2ed ball , I did 3 8 ball breaks in a row . Now No bar boxes with in any close distance , all 8 and 9 footers . I still use 2ed ball and do get 8 once in a while , always a good spread and ball down 70 to 80 % of the time . Jim
 
I pocket more balls hitting the head ball from the head spot. Anytime I use a low outside second ball break, the cue ball goes into orbit and I leave a clustered rack.

That's my personal experience. However, I've snapped the 8 more with a 2nd ball break.
 
I had to figure that one too Dave.

Too hard and you end up missing someones head.

Medium to medium hard break if going for the 2nd ball.

I've put a few off the table myself.
 
I'll say this when I do the 2nd ball break I line up a little below center but avoid using any left or right english like the plague. Break cue deflects far to much to make an accurate hit and phenolic tip does poorly on off center hits. Since I've realized this and focused on the accuracy of the hit on the 2nd ball and on lowering velocity I've had much better results.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
I always argue with my friend about this.He started playing about 4 years ago, A year before me, but he is not improving very fast. He loves trying to pot the 8 on the break. He uses the second ball break but I would say well over 1/2 the time he sends the Qball into orbit or scratches, he rarely pots the 8. I break straight up the middle on Valley bar boxes, 1 diamond right of center on Diamonds and GCs and seldom do I not pot at least 1 ball, I even dropped a few 8s like this, usually at the head of the table at both left and right pockets. I told him that he is fine breaking second ball IF he practices this, it seems you need pin point accuracy for it to be effective. On my Sunday league the players are much better and 8 on the break does not count, it seems like they are using the 2nd ball break to create clusters for tougher run outs, if you break the table wide open and dont run out there is a pretty good chance your opponent will.
 
I only break the 2nd ball in one League. Our VNEA allows the 8-on-the-break as a win.

I always move the 8-ball towards the side pocket. I use a 1/2 speed draw shot, no English.

randyg
 
I will try that Randy, Thanks.

I use approx half to 3/4 English depending on what side of the table I am breaking on.

Still don't have it down 100% yet but at least potting balls consistently.
 
IMHO, the second ball break works best when the balls are dirty and or worn down. Better spread, more balls pocketed and the added benefit of pocketing the occasional 8 ball. Forget side English, the sacrifice in accuracy outweighs any perceived benefits. 1 to2 tips of low, I rarely have problems launching the cb off the table.

Give me a good table and balls that are clean, I prefer a head ball break.
 
I used to do the 2nd ball in on the right side a bit just to get the balls clumped together over on the right side of the table if you hit it with a medium hard stroke. I never really noted an increase in pocketing a ball on the break though. I can consistently pocket a boll using a semi-hard break Straight on the 1st ball.

Interesting thing is that I use inside (1 1/2 tips left and 1/2 tip low english if breaking from the right) at one pocket break speed and can get the far corner ball into the corner pocket with some regularity if I barely feather the lead ball in the rack. Sets me up for a nice run since the cue ball dances away from the rack and softly bounces back to about the 2nd diamond about a ball off the rail. Great thing about this break is that is can be done more consistently due to the speed.

Lesh
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I had to figure that one too Dave.

Too hard and you end up missing someones head.

Medium to medium hard break if going for the 2nd ball.

I've put a few off the table myself.
Click to expand...

The dreaded "launch" happens to me as well. I've not seen a slo-mo but just guessing that since one can't hit the 2nd ball full, it is going to fly in the direction of the long rail with some velocity, and that doesn't leave much distance before it reaches the side of the boat and goes overboard. On a full hit on the head ball, the CB doesn't glance off another ball but bounces back off the head ball, doesn't travel as far because the full hit against the stack sucks more of the energy out of it, and so it falls safely to terra firma..
 
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lorider said:
i know its ben debated before but the subject came up in my how ya'll doing in league thread.

i have posted on here that i think its pure luck but ... i have also told the story about an old road player making it 5 times in a row on me before i quit him.

well since we got bad weather and no league tonight i decided to practice the 2nd ball break here at home today.

i broke 20 times each from various positions with center , right and left english on the right side of the table since i am right handed.

her are my unofficial results from my unofficial test.:grin-square:

starting with the most popular position being on the line a a few inches off the rail.

inside english-more likely to move the ball towards the left pocket but more like to scratch in bottom right. another ball always hits the 8 stopping it from going in.

center ball. scratch every time, dont move the 8 much

outside english. moves the ball towards the left side pocket less likely to scratch. 8 ball had a clearer shot at going in left side pocket but always fell short , sometimes by mere inches.

unofficial conclusion- still a crapshoot if you make it or not.

interesting observation here though. using the 2nd ball breaking method greatly increases my pocketing a ball on the break. i almost always made a ball in the bottom left corner pocket.

my normal break is 1 diamond down and 1 diamond over and i have a lot of dry breaks. in summary i am changing my break to 2nd ball just to increase my run out percentage.:grin-square:
Click to expand...

If there is a crack between the 8 ball and either ball next to it, then the eight can go in the side pocket on the side with the crack.
 
I'll use second ball or sometimes even third ball breaks when hitting the rack full is inconsistent.
Making a ball is the most important thing.

Some players might mention that hitting the third ball down has a good chance of sinking the 8. I've surprised a few high level players with this break... balls spread very nicely.
 
Here are some things to know about the second ball break. First you need to know that to make sure that you keep the cue ball on the table it's important to keep your cue stick as level as possible and use some outside English with a bit of draw. If there is elevation on the butt of the cue there is a good chance of jumping off the table because of the cue ball lifting off the bed of the table and then coming down just before striking the second ball on the way up.

By striking the second ball and drawing the cue ball to the long rail this keeps the cue ball from being struck by other balls. On the break all the balls are moving away from the area of the cue ball. You want the cue ball draw and spin back toward the middle of the table for a better view on the table layout if you happen to pocket a ball. By the time the cue ball gets to the middle of the table most of the balls have already left the area and getting kissed in to a scratch is more unlikely. If you don't use outside and draw you will most likely wind up on the short rail, scratch cross corner, or not wind up with a workable shot to start your run with.

Depending on the table, speed is very important.
 
8 on the break is definitely luck BUT you do increase your chances if you can get the 8 moving.

IME, 2nd ball break does that pretty well.

If your scratching a lot however, your doing it wrong, it's not the problem of the break. ;)

Head ball ball is more likely to spread the rack around the whole table, leaving more of the middle of the rack where the 2nd ball break is more likely to move the whole rack including the middle (8ball), but not as far around the table.

I find making 'a' ball relatively the same between both.
 
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