Defense VS Offense

justnum said:
In 14.1 I've noticed that the play goes between defensive and offensive. The unique POV is when do players decide to go from being offensive to defensive. It is common for players to have an open table but make a slight mistake and ruin the runout. A new strategy is needed if one is going to regain a runout opportunity.

The turning point in any 14.1 is the break shot, if it is there great. But if its not that situation leaves limited options. A non-opening defensive break shot is to freeze the cueball to the back of the rack. This forces a safe battle and if you played the freeze right you might have an OB hanging. With the CB frozen it is very unlikely the incoming player can pocket a shot because their shooting line is severely restricted. The other option is the freeze to the front of the rack, whichever you choose a safe battle will follow.

Getting back to a runout is just a matter of knowing what shots to force on your opponent and getting a shot you can pocket.

Other cheesy defensive tactics are to leave shots on the table that force the player into an awkward stance or an extremely elevated cue stick.
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In a straight pool defensive sequence, it is rare, though possible, that you can force opponent to play from a position so awkward that a sellout is relatively assured. This is not nine ball, and opponent always has the option to take a foul or two to trade up to an easier position. For the most part, the only time you can force opponent to play from a really awkward position is when they are on two fouls.

Straight pool defense is usually a war of attrition, not a battle won in a single blow. Consequently, I don't agree with the philosophy you have professed in your post.
 
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sjm said:
In a straight pool defensive sequence, it is rare, though possible, that you can force opponent to play from a position so awkward that a sellout is relatively assured. This is not nine ball, and opponent always has the option to take a foul or two to trade up to an easier position. For the most part, the only time you can force opponent to play from a really awkward position is when they are on two fouls.

Straight pool defense is usually a war of attrition, not a battle won in a single blow. Consequently, I don't agree with the philosophy you have professed in your post.
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I don't agree with the OP either. Knowing where and when to take an intentional scratch is an integral part of 14.1, and you need to seize the opportunity - or your opponent will. There is a cerebral side to 14.1 that is not present in rotation games or even 8-ball.
 
sjm said:
In a straight pool defensive sequence, it is rare, though possible, that you can force opponent to play from a position so awkward that a sellout is relatively assured. This is not nine ball, and opponent always has the option to take a foul or two to trade up to an easier position. For the most part, the only time you can force opponent to play from a really awkward position is when they are on two fouls.

Straight pool defense is usually a war of attrition, not a battle won in a single blow. Consequently, I don't agree with the philosophy you have professed in your post.
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It took me so long to figure out that I could take an intentional rather than sell out, so that hopefully, I could play a safe next.

When I first started playing 14.1, when the other guy took an intentional first, I figured he was just trying to get me to lose a point and I would try to make a safe. Latimer said to me "what do I have to do to get you to take a foul!? Break your arm?" Once he said "you are making shots you shouldn't even be shooting." Dumb me took it as a compliment.

I've learned a bit about safeties now but I know I have not scratched the surface yet. The safety part of the game can get very interesting.
 
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dmgwalsh said:
It took me so long to figure out that I could take an intentional rather than sell out, so that hopefully, I could play a safe next.

When I first started playing 14.1, when the other guy took an intentional first, I figured he was just trying to get me to lose a point and I would try to make a safe. Latimer said to me "what do I have to do to get you to take a foul!? Break your arm?" Once he said "you are making shots you shouldn't even be shooting." Dumb me took it as a compliment.

I've learned a bit about safeties now but I know I have not scratched the surface yet. The safety part of the game can get very interesting.
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Good to see you have an open mind, Dennis. That's what it takes. Defense in 14.1 is more an art than a science but it starts with having good tactical habits, which you seem to be gradually developing. Stay the course!
 
Since 14.1 is really the only game I care about, I play intentionals and safeties all the time. Even on barboxes when playing 8-ball. I get some funny looks but I don't care.
 
justnum said:
Film producers pay big bucks for funny looks.

Do you get the on cue and on the first take?

Sometimes actors/actresses just don't know the scene or the look and they need several takes to get it right, unlike live stage actors/actresses.

In either case table strategy is critical. Another cheese tactic is to play a safe and pocket the cue ball. Only use that technique when all the shots are behind the headstring. This way the player must at least kick it to avoid a safe.
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There is no cheesy way to play safe in Straight Pool. This ain't bar room 8 ball with bar room rules.
 
justnum said:
Film producers pay big bucks for funny looks.

Do you get the on cue and on the first take?

Sometimes actors/actresses just don't know the scene or the look and they need several takes to get it right, unlike live stage actors/actresses.

In either case table strategy is critical. Another cheese tactic is to play a safe and pocket the cue ball.
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I'm not sure what you're alluding to:confused:

They may be "cheese" tactics but you are playing to win? If you can do that without cheating, I see no reason to object. Television has tried to take as much defense out of the game as possible.
 
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Cheese

Jack Burton said:
I'm not sure what you're alluding to:confused:

They may be "cheese" tactics but you are playing to win? If you can do that without cheating, I see no reason to object. Television has tried to take as much defense out of the game as possible.
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Not sure I get the cheese allusion either.

I hear that Crain fellow used to be pretty good at leaving the other guy nothing to look at. That kind of thinking and cue ball control is very cool, IMHO.
 
dmgwalsh said:
Not sure I get the cheese allusion either.

I hear that Crain fellow used to be pretty good at leaving the other guy nothing to look at. That kind of thinking and cue ball control is very cool, IMHO.
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Yeah, Irving used to spend at least an hour a day playing himself safe, so the stories go.
 
justnum said:
If its house room rules, they I'd play for the narrow corner spot where you can't stroke the cue at all.
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Straight Pool is seldom played by "house rules". Afraid I don't get that one, you mean putting the cue ball in a corner pocket??
 
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justnum said:
Some home pool tables don't always have adequate space around a pool table. On those tables there are areas that a stroke is just not possible because of physical barrier.

Imagine a pool table and next to the table place a large vending machine, or utility closet. Those physical barriers impose on the space needed for stroking a cue.
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Ok, so what's your point? You feel what you described is unsportsmanlike?
 
justnum said:
Another fixer for going from running out to mistake is the position of the break ball.

Sometimes the way you see a rack can't be run out, at least not run out and get a break ball. So if your interested in applying a defensive play instead of gambling on a low probability offensive situation then consider playing out the rack and leaving the break ball behind the rack.

The idea being instead of using the break ball offensively tuck it behind the rack and leave the cue ball in a strong safe area away from getting a good peak at a decent shot.

Most of my ideas revolve around the break shot and hiding behind the rack.

There are others but those are the easiest to describe.
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If I'm finishing a rack and there aren't going to be any break shots I'm willing to play, I'll play end rack position where I can play safe on the opening shot of the next rack and leave the cue ball frozen on the center of the head rail. It will be harder for my opponent to escape this without scratching, than being frozen to the back of the rack.
 
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