dendweller
Well-known member
That's enlightening. Thanks
Deflection question, explain how a stiffer CF shaft has less deflection.
- Thread starter Shooter1
- Start date
It occurs to me that the transverse wave speed (?), which I believe determines the amount of a shaft’s length that counts as end mass, might be significantly different in CF vs. maple.
Anybody got an idea? Dave? Bob? Mike? Fred? Ron? Bueller?
pj <- infocoholic
chgo
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Shaft stiffness definitely affects the effective endmass (and amount of CB deflection) per the info and explanations here:
CF shafts can have radically different stiffnesses and endmasses (and amount of CB deflection) based on diameters and wall thicknesses. Example differences can be found in the videos here:
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The speed of the transverse wave propogation of a typical wound filament carbon fiber shaft is going to be significantly faster than a maple wood shaft, all other things being equal. If that is the question.
For future discussion…
On its own, a carbon fiber shaft won’t have less squirt than a maple shaft with a blind 6” hole without doing other things:
- Thinning the resultant shell wall
- Ensuring it’s hollow for a much longer length (which a wound filament tube would be)
- Reducing end mass in the ferrule system like the vault plate setup.
I have a couple CF shafts that nobody would confuse as “low deflection.” They don’t do what Predator and others have done with their ferrule system.
Absolutely, the strength and stiffness of cf simply allows for thinner walls while maintaining stability allowing for reduced end mass by the reduction of the wall thickness.
No good player does that, and no aspiring player with an understanding of the game does that. To answer your question directly, there is no need to worry about the ideas in this thread if you only hit the cue ball on the vertical axis -- without sidespin.
If you only hit center ball, you shouldn't care. When I was playing with a high deflection CF shaft I was concentrating on speed control and draw and follow only; however, you REALLY limit higher level play. At that time, I was toying with a golf like game, where I used different cues for different shots.
Not incorporating side spin in your game really limits high level play, throwing the ball to change angle, using inside draw to shorten the draw angle, inducing reverse spin for bank shots. These are critical skills in games like one pocket that make shots that would otherwise be impossible, possible
Why is there a wood insert in meucci carbon pro at the shaft ferrule ?
You'd have to ask Bob. I don't know the particulars of that design, so I could only speculate. I will say that Bob Meucci was the forefront of shaft design so I would expect there to be a lot of research and testing in whatever benefits are claimed.
It could be similar to my design of a wooden ld shaft. My first design incorporated a center dowel mounted into the back of the ferule and then glued into the center of the shaft at the back of the core. It mimicked a full shaft feel and hit while still allowing for reduced end mass and lower squirt by having the area around the center dowel cored out.
That was the question, alright - and the answer I expected. Thanks.
And does that mean the CF shaft will squirt more than an equal-mass maple shaft (because more of the shaft is "involved" as end mass)?
pj
chgo
I believe it would (assuming you meant “equal density” or something to that effect)
Yes, assuming the tip/ferrule weight and weight distribution along the length is similar in the comparison, and assuming the CF shaft isn’t made to be whipper than normal. The mass closest to the tip contributes the most to “endmass.”
If the cue ball comes off the tip in a millisecond, or so, where does the "whippiness" of the shaft come into play?
Hasn't the contact between the tip and the cue ball been broken before the shaft begins to whip?
It means the tip will stay in contact to the cueball a fraction of millisecond longer dueto the shaft being sprung back, where as with Carbon, the CB would just go by a fraction faster
That is what I think, too.
I wanted the doctor to explain it.
There are a lot of people on here who think otherwise.
The interaction of the mass of the cue and the mass of the cueball are what cause the shaft and tip to flex, the whipping action is what happens upon the release. The difference is as the release of the tension between the masses is occuring and the whipping action begins, the friction is still occurring between the tip and the cb. The level of friction and the amount of whipping action will have a slight impact on the amount of squirt.
The lateral stiffness (related to "whippiness") of the shaft affects the length of the shaft that contributes to "endmass." I lot of physics happens during that 1ms. For more info, see:
We would think so...but there is no scientific confirmations yet
See the info and links in the previous post.