stevelomako said:
Really. I've asked at least 3 times where his fee comes from and how much is it.
His silence on the issue is not exactly "up front".
DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
Really. I've asked at least 3 times where his fee comes from and how much is it.
His silence on the issue is not exactly "up front".
Teacherman said:
Like I said which you evidently didn't read.......C A L L... H I M!!!!!!
Teacherman said:
Umm... I think that Mike has pretty much guarenteed that you will make $500 more than your usual profit just to get you to try it. Even if it comes out of his pocket. That makes your side of the triangle work. Your posts read more like you are trying to make sure that Mike's side of the triangle fails, but who really gives a crap? If the players come, the room makes (more than average )money, and Mike makes money why is there the need for the argumnet about who makes more or where it comes from?
And deleting the last thread sucked. If people get banned for it, MJ should be on vacation for a while. Or, the admin could just turn off the ability to delete posts entirely. Leave edit functions on so you can empty a post if you really want, but deleting it isn't right.
Here's a thought.
Instead of giving me products to sell, which is insulting btw (I give you money up front for the tournament and then I get to sell products to get even) why not have the sponsors give you cash to add to the tournament.
You list about 20 sponsors. Would each give you $50 per week to be advertised at your tournaments? That would total $1000 per week in added money. That would be an advertising business expense for them of $200 per month. A reasonable business expenditure.
I would add $1000 if I can charge $.75-$1.00 per game for their tournament play. That gets me even or close enough to make it a go. And, if and only if the tournament was run in the non prime time.
The tournament directors fee comes out of the calcutta and the entry fees.
Charge $40 entry fee. TD keeps $5 or $10 per entry. Add his calcutta percentage and he does ok. Maybe he can carry sponsors products and make a commission on sales.
In this scenario, everyone does fine. Players spend $60-$70 for the enjoyment of the tournament with a chance to win $1000 or better first prize.
Room owner has a full room to sell to. Gets even on the added money.
Sponsors get the advertising benefit.
This is a 4 way win win.
No one gets rich. But, that isn't going to happen in this industry anyway.
Instead of giving me products to sell, which is insulting btw (I give you money up front for the tournament and then I get to sell products to get even) why not have the sponsors give you cash to add to the tournament.
You list about 20 sponsors. Would each give you $50 per week to be advertised at your tournaments? That would total $1000 per week in added money. That would be an advertising business expense for them of $200 per month. A reasonable business expenditure.
I would add $1000 if I can charge $.75-$1.00 per game for their tournament play. That gets me even or close enough to make it a go. And, if and only if the tournament was run in the non prime time.
The tournament directors fee comes out of the calcutta and the entry fees.
Charge $40 entry fee. TD keeps $5 or $10 per entry. Add his calcutta percentage and he does ok. Maybe he can carry sponsors products and make a commission on sales.
In this scenario, everyone does fine. Players spend $60-$70 for the enjoyment of the tournament with a chance to win $1000 or better first prize.
Room owner has a full room to sell to. Gets even on the added money.
Sponsors get the advertising benefit.
This is a 4 way win win.
No one gets rich. But, that isn't going to happen in this industry anyway.
Teacherman said:
Teacherman, you never asked what the fees or price of a tournament was You asked HOW I MADE MONEY. Again I implore you to bring this to a pm or private email or even call me.
I have not been silent on this issue. I feel that business to business transactions should be kept between the businesses or individuals themselves.
Also as I mentioned, it's proprietary information. It's not something I want my competitors to get there hands on. The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour is the longest running and largest regional tour in the country. Our system that is a win, win, win situatuation is confidential between host locations and us.
ADDED INFO.... Teacherman, I need to make this part more clear. The monetary amounts or exect fees are what is confidential. The package that was originally offered works like this. I get product from the sponsors, you give me money for the product, I give money to the event. The product package guarantees that you at least break even by doing one of our events. (example: you pay me a fee of lets say $5,000 and I give you over $10,000 of product in retail value. If you take this product and wholesale it a 50% off the retail price you get your $5,000 back.) It's that simple, a pool room owner is guaranteed to not lose any money on our events because of this. Sure it may take some time to get all your money back but you do get it back. Also, as I stated before, you will see an increase in revenues while the event is at your location. Players will practice more at your location to get instroke for the event. Players will return to your establishment time and again. Those are just some of the ways you can make money off a tour event. Me and the sponsors are just makig sure you don't lose any.
Mj
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I dont really care for the deleted post but I think Mike was just trying to avoid a bigger problem.
Its really simple. If a room wants a tournament they can get in touch with Mike and he will lay out all the costs and the ins and outs. He has a lot
of tournament experience and knows how to make the events smooth for
both the event and the room.
Teacherman has a nice pool room but does not seem like he wants to have a "mini-tour" come in to his place. Thats fine but I dont see where
trying to bad mouth the tour is doing any good.
Mike has been very straight up and I think he is right in not disclosing all
the ins and outs regarding having a Viking Event. Thats between him and the pool room owners.
My answer to teachers added money question is yes. If the $1000 was not placed in the Kitty then there would be even less than if it had not been.
MY example would be if the entrys totaled 1000 with no money added but $100 of the entries went to the director for his services then the total would be 900. If the house added 500 then there would be 400 more to give away.
The director should not be asked to do this for free.
The same thing amazes me when rooms claim 1000 added yet charge a 10 green fee and get 64 players. Now thats not added money IMO.
I dont know if Teacher does the $5000 in sales normally during the hours that the event would be. If so then his room might not be a great candidate for an event.
I do think that things can be done around the time of the event to try and get more money spent in the room. Years ago in my local room the owner had
Mike Massey come in and do shows and that seemed to get people into the place. It makes great advertising as well getting players from other rooms
to come by. Having a challenge the Pro night would be good and easy. Maybe find two of the top players that are committed to coming and
have them play a race to 9 as an exhibition then afterwards players can
pay $5 to play them a race to 3 or something. The Players keep the money for their services. Many of the top players are good with the crowd and could keep it lively. If the players are already going to be there then this would help with there expenses. Its a win win situation.
Rooms should have some events for their locals where they win entry into
the event. This pulls some players into the room either more often or
from other rooms.
Also most pool rooms I have been to that had events going on are totally understaffed. They lose sales this way. I am not sure about other areas
around the country but at ALL events I have been to in the south the players
spend money. Maybe not all of them but thats true in all cross-sections of the population. Theres always a few that spend well and they help average it out.
Everyone wishes that these type events paid out a ton of money and that the rooms could make a ton as well. My hat goes off to the guys running the events and the guys hosting the events.
As for the calcutta. Usually 10% goes to the person running and taking responsibility for the calcutta. Thats fair. I dont think Mike is taking 20%. I have been to a couple Viking events and dont remember that much being pulled out.
If the playrs agree to play it does not matter if a percentage is taken out of not. The player always has the option not to play.
Its really simple. If a room wants a tournament they can get in touch with Mike and he will lay out all the costs and the ins and outs. He has a lot
of tournament experience and knows how to make the events smooth for
both the event and the room.
Teacherman has a nice pool room but does not seem like he wants to have a "mini-tour" come in to his place. Thats fine but I dont see where
trying to bad mouth the tour is doing any good.
Mike has been very straight up and I think he is right in not disclosing all
the ins and outs regarding having a Viking Event. Thats between him and the pool room owners.
My answer to teachers added money question is yes. If the $1000 was not placed in the Kitty then there would be even less than if it had not been.
MY example would be if the entrys totaled 1000 with no money added but $100 of the entries went to the director for his services then the total would be 900. If the house added 500 then there would be 400 more to give away.
The director should not be asked to do this for free.
The same thing amazes me when rooms claim 1000 added yet charge a 10 green fee and get 64 players. Now thats not added money IMO.
I dont know if Teacher does the $5000 in sales normally during the hours that the event would be. If so then his room might not be a great candidate for an event.
I do think that things can be done around the time of the event to try and get more money spent in the room. Years ago in my local room the owner had
Mike Massey come in and do shows and that seemed to get people into the place. It makes great advertising as well getting players from other rooms
to come by. Having a challenge the Pro night would be good and easy. Maybe find two of the top players that are committed to coming and
have them play a race to 9 as an exhibition then afterwards players can
pay $5 to play them a race to 3 or something. The Players keep the money for their services. Many of the top players are good with the crowd and could keep it lively. If the players are already going to be there then this would help with there expenses. Its a win win situation.
Rooms should have some events for their locals where they win entry into
the event. This pulls some players into the room either more often or
from other rooms.
Also most pool rooms I have been to that had events going on are totally understaffed. They lose sales this way. I am not sure about other areas
around the country but at ALL events I have been to in the south the players
spend money. Maybe not all of them but thats true in all cross-sections of the population. Theres always a few that spend well and they help average it out.
Everyone wishes that these type events paid out a ton of money and that the rooms could make a ton as well. My hat goes off to the guys running the events and the guys hosting the events.
As for the calcutta. Usually 10% goes to the person running and taking responsibility for the calcutta. Thats fair. I dont think Mike is taking 20%. I have been to a couple Viking events and dont remember that much being pulled out.
If the playrs agree to play it does not matter if a percentage is taken out of not. The player always has the option not to play.
Business by its very nature is adversarial, therefore, I think it would be much more appropriate if Teacherman and Mike J. would discuss their business in private. I see both sides and they both need to do everything they can, within reason, to get the best deal. The rest of us just don't need to see whose the better horse trader. I get the distinct feeling that Teacherman doesn't usually get the short end of too many deals. Good for him!
MikeJanis said:
So, you can advertise here, but you can't talk business. Isn't advertising part of business. Sounds like you have something to hide. Just what might that be. The skimming of money?
And, do you really believe your competitors don't know your system?
frankncali said:
I have experience with Mike Massey. $1500 was the fee. I got about 20-25 people to watch. Included his show and a match with Mark Wilson. And a match between my two junior champions at the time.
Do you think each person who showed up spent $60?
MikeJanis said:
If I'm going to spend the next 3-6 weeks or months selling this product, why would I do it to get back the money I already had?
Do you work for nothing Mike?
Everyone else gets theirs that weekend. The tournament ends that weekend for everyone else.
The pool room owner gets to work extra weeks or months before he's even.
And this is sold as a "good deal".
I imagine. If you're on the other side of it.
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MikeJanis said:
Skimming, taking a fee, call it what you want.
You're apparently not too proud of it either. Or you'd discuss how it works.
Is it your intent to ignore the recent questions and suggestions.
Dude (Teacherman),
Time to take the medication and cool it.
If you don't want to do anything then don't.
You're just starting alot of shit on-line when you can call and get whatever answers you need.
HERE'S A THOUGHT:
I'll put up the money for Mike to have a tournament in your room...I keep all product....You get the advertising....and we split what is made above what you NORMALLY do till 9pm on Saturdays and say 6-7pm on Sunday.
AND...if you don't make what you normally do till that time...I'll make it up.
Think about it.
Time to take the medication and cool it.
If you don't want to do anything then don't.
You're just starting alot of shit on-line when you can call and get whatever answers you need.
HERE'S A THOUGHT:
I'll put up the money for Mike to have a tournament in your room...I keep all product....You get the advertising....and we split what is made above what you NORMALLY do till 9pm on Saturdays and say 6-7pm on Sunday.
AND...if you don't make what you normally do till that time...I'll make it up.
Think about it.
T
Timberly
Guest
I recently went to a pool tournament to simply be a spectator.frankncali said:
A) I spent a little over $60 (more than the $26 or whatever it was TM said would need to be spent by each person)
B) They were so understaffed that it took 45 min to get a CHEESEBURGER. There were a couple of times that I gave up at the counter and didn't get anything. Had that not happened, I would've spent more than I did.
C) After 3 hours and telling FOUR different people, they finally got toilet paper in the womens rest room.
B) The majority of the people in the ph at the time were players.... if it took 45 min to get a cheeseburger then I guess players do spend money. The bread & butter of most pool rooms is table time & alcohol sales... most players don't drink, esp when they're playing hence the reason TM isn't making money off of players. Unless Keith McCready is playing in the tourney, you're not going to get a lot of alcohol sales off of players.
As for the rest of this.... I was so disgusted that I wanted to quit reading all of this but it was like a train wreck. For what it's worth, here's my .02 on it. I have no problem with TM not wanting a tourney or feeling the way he feels about it all. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings. Everyone is not entitled to be an antagonistic asshole about it which is exactly what TM is being. All you had to do was state you weren't interested or leave it be altogether. Instead you attack a long running, well respected tourney and TD for no other reason than because you're an ass. I always make it a point to stay away from the heated bickering that pop up here at times, but I couldn't help myself this time. TM, I can assure you that if I'm ever in your area, regardless of whether there's a tourney or not, you will not get any of my money. I also can't believe that as a "business man" for 16 or whatever yrs it was that you would even consider asking MJ about his fees, how he comes about them, or anything remotely close along those lines, esp in a public forum!! Why don't you go to the ask the pro's forum and ask them what their sponsors pay them or start a poll asking people how much they make a yr... somethings are off limits and as a "business man" you should know that. You got the balls to ask him that, do it privately. As for the Viking tour itself and it's benefits or non benefits to a pool room let me suggest TM that you give Jimmy Hodges at Gametime in Greenville, SC a call. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone else as tight assed as he is when it comes to money, but yet he has no problem hosting this tour.
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Timberly said:
First, the pro's or their sponsors didn't post and ad here for pool room owners to respond to. I do no business with them.
Second, If I'm the one paying Mike's fee, I think I should know what it is.
Third, I think it's a worthy lesson for all viewing here to know how these events work and where their money goes and where the winnings come from.
Fourth,it's hard for me to understand a TD asking for rooms and players yet trying to keep them in the dark.
Fifth, you must be a relative rookie to the pool world. Let me give you a hint. Next time you go to a tournament, add up the entry fees, added money, calcutta money, etc etc and compare it to the actual pay outs. You might be surprised what goes on.
He ran the ad, I responded.
Don't ask if you can't handle the answer.
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stevelomako said:
I'll give you 3 seconds to reread and reconsider.
Too late.
DEAL. Did you hear me? DEAL DEAL DEAL.
No reniging. I expect my first event to be in June. Pick your weekend. Let me know. We'll be ready. No play after 8:30p.
Can we schedule 1 per month for the next, oh, 10 years.
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Teacherman said:
Seems a bit steep. I hate that you only got 20-25 people. Thats crazy.
It soes sound like a good tie and show. Wish I could ahve been there.
Not sure if I would have spent $60 though
If it was a drinking day and my friends were with me you would have LOVED to have us there.
One thing to remember is that IMO I think the most people that visit forums and express their concerns and opinion are the ones room owners want to
visit their place. IMO the spenders are here.
Good luck with your rooms Teacherman but I dont think your right in going after Mike. As a business owner you would not want someone after you and in your business. If players want to play and it rooms want to host then great. It helps pool and many players love going to and playing in the events.
Teacherman said:
Teacherman, when I ran the ad I asked for rooms that were interested to respond to this thread. Not individuals with their own agenda. It obvious that you do not want a Viking Tour event so please stop. It is alos obvious that you have never been to a Viking Tour event before. Seeing is believing. You remind me of a woman that has been scorned and now hates all men.
Mj