MikeJanis said:
Let me know when you get a room to respond.
DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
Let me know when you get a room to respond.
Teacherman,
I must say I've seen nothing but adversarial, negative, abrupt, and unconstructive posts by you. Why waste your time on this board? Why waste your time in the pool business? You claim pool players are whiners, but all I hear from you is whining about how you don't make any money. Ironically, to me, you are the biggest WHINER on the board. Your negativity sucks! Don't trash what you call "nicey-nicey" posts while at the same time thinking your negative posts are by default, more beneficial and constructive. They're not. They're a pile of crap. I guess your negativity rubbed off on me. Why anyone would bother having a tournament at your facility is beyond me.
Hope you liked the fact that I didn't write you a "nicey-nicey" post.
I must say I've seen nothing but adversarial, negative, abrupt, and unconstructive posts by you. Why waste your time on this board? Why waste your time in the pool business? You claim pool players are whiners, but all I hear from you is whining about how you don't make any money. Ironically, to me, you are the biggest WHINER on the board. Your negativity sucks! Don't trash what you call "nicey-nicey" posts while at the same time thinking your negative posts are by default, more beneficial and constructive. They're not. They're a pile of crap. I guess your negativity rubbed off on me. Why anyone would bother having a tournament at your facility is beyond me.
Hope you liked the fact that I didn't write you a "nicey-nicey" post.
Teacherman, there is no way in H E double toothpicks (Using language TM can understand) that I would ever bring the Viking Tour to your room. In fact, I am going to search out your competitors and give them a good deal just to get your goat.
Can anybody recomend one of these rooms or another?
They are all in the St. Louis area.
Mr B's ?
Crystal Billiards
Cue & Cushion
Pink Galleon?
Ride The Rail?
Washington Billiards ?
Andy Quinn's room ?
Sharky's ?
Mj
Can anybody recomend one of these rooms or another?
They are all in the St. Louis area.
Mr B's ?
Crystal Billiards
Cue & Cushion
Pink Galleon?
Ride The Rail?
Washington Billiards ?
Andy Quinn's room ?
Sharky's ?
Mj
beetle said:
Never said that. Show me the quote.
MikeJanis said:
Ahh, the businessman who can't see money when it's right in front of him. stevelomacko solved the problem and mike gets cold feet.
The runaway bride syndrome again.
Please don't call Andy Quinn's room. 618-257-8203.
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... and then there were none.
I think that if you look at both sides of the arguement here you will find where we (pool community) fall down.
One leg of teacherman's triangle is always left even or worse. If it isn't the player, it's the TD or the Room.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to sell stuff to come up with my 'even'. I also wouldn't want customers in my hall to be turned away from a Friday, Saturday or Sunday 'entertainment', because they are the ones spending money.
What a thought provoking topic. One that has been rounded many times, but one we may never solve.
I would like to compliment Mike Janis on the NUTS. Seems like a great positive move and one I hope survives.
Thanks to Teacherman for providing the arguements he does. I agree with a lot of his points on the pool business he runs. The 'casual' player is where the $$ is. The 'avid' or quasi-professional is not where pool rooms should find their 'bread and butter'.
Which in turn leads us back to the discussion we have been having. How to make sure all aspects of the triangle win.
FWIW, MO
I think that if you look at both sides of the arguement here you will find where we (pool community) fall down.
One leg of teacherman's triangle is always left even or worse. If it isn't the player, it's the TD or the Room.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to sell stuff to come up with my 'even'. I also wouldn't want customers in my hall to be turned away from a Friday, Saturday or Sunday 'entertainment', because they are the ones spending money.
What a thought provoking topic. One that has been rounded many times, but one we may never solve.
I would like to compliment Mike Janis on the NUTS. Seems like a great positive move and one I hope survives.
Thanks to Teacherman for providing the arguements he does. I agree with a lot of his points on the pool business he runs. The 'casual' player is where the $$ is. The 'avid' or quasi-professional is not where pool rooms should find their 'bread and butter'.
Which in turn leads us back to the discussion we have been having. How to make sure all aspects of the triangle win.
FWIW, MO
Teacherman said:
I was just thinking. Why is this guy beinng like this. Then it hit me. Back in about 96 or 97 I came through the St. Louis area while I was on the road with Leil Gay. Leil was playing Andy some Hundred dollar 1-hole and I had to match up with the owner playing banks. I remember the room owner bitching me out and quitting me because I broke and ran 8 straight banks to get the cheese (that was right after we doubled the bet). The owner was cussing and swearing and saying I hustled him.
Was that you Teacherman?
Mj
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you're a smart poster deadstroke. Thanks for the support.
I made a proposal that should work.
No response.
Here is a guy in the business. Searching for business like all business people do everyday. A proposal is made and no response.
What does that mean to the average pool citizen???????
I know what it means to the average pool room owner.
I made a proposal that should work.
No response.
Here is a guy in the business. Searching for business like all business people do everyday. A proposal is made and no response.
What does that mean to the average pool citizen???????
I know what it means to the average pool room owner.
Never played a game of banks in my life.
When hitting the rubber counts I'll bet something.
When hitting the rubber counts I'll bet something.
Sponsoring a tournament is often like money spent on advertising. It may not make you a lot of money that weekend, but it gets more people familiar with your room. I have played a few Viking events and they were ran well and the payout seemed fair. Some rooms are too small or maybe too big or just don't want a tour stop. That is fine, but there are a lot of places that have Viking come back to have a tour stop in their rooms every year or even more often. That says to me Mike must be doing something right or they would not have him back. So if you don't want him there or don't feel what he has to offer is benefitial just don't have him. Don't slam him on a public forum. Speaking of Viking stops, I hope to see you in Athens in a week and a half.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
cueman said:
Explain to me the return on this advertising dollar when the players that come to my room as a result of the tournament ad never come back until I add another $1000 or $2000.
Don't forget to factor in they may spend $20 each over two days. Use a field of 64 for analysis.
cueman said:
Chris, I will be at gameTime in Greenville, SC on FRi. Sat, Sun then in Marietta at the Pool Room on Monday -Fri and then I will be in Athens at Murphy's Fri night, Sat and Sun. Then back in the Atlanta area to look for a house.
Any ideas on what areas to look into.
Mj
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When I am at one room in the Atlanta area and a tour has come through to another room on the other side of town. I hear people talking about the tournament and who matched up and what the room is like and so on and so on. Keeping people talking about your room is word of mouth advertising. Yes you may not see the top players come again until the tour comes back, but reputation is what builds a solid room. If your room is the place that brings in the tour stops into your city, then your room will be the one that has the reputation of being the serious place to play. A room is only as good as its reputation. You get the product, so you eventually get your money back. It is like a wholesale product investment that will get your rooms name in a few magazines and bring a bunch of people to your room for a weekend. I run advertising for my business in 4 pool magazines, maintain 3 websites, set up at Expos and so on. It takes it all to build the reputation that my business has. No one item listed above keeps it all afloat. Sometimes I feel the ad money is wasted as it may not bring in a customer that I can say came on behalf of a particular ad. But then I must face the fact that people seeing my business name out there all the time will make them more inclined to at least consider my cues or machinery when they start looking.Teacherman said:
Sit back and ask yourself what kind of reputation your room has? and what kind of reputation do you want it to have? Is it "the serious place to play" or just another pool room in peoples minds?
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
When I moved back to Georgia I had to move over 50 miles out of Atlanta to be able to afford something with a few acres of land. So I really don't know what the market is like nearer the city. I grew up around Marietta and Woodstock and really liked it there then, but hate the congestion there now.MikeJanis said:
As a room owner I must respond
Considering the last experience I had with Teacherman I really did not want to respond but there has been so much misleading and illogical representations IMO it is now necessary since I spent most of the afternoon going through these two threads.
Lets start from the beginning when you decide to hold a tournament which I have down twice the last two years with the West Coast Pechauer tour. Being up front let me tell you I paid no fees the first year and 250 dollars the second to help defray the costs of the T.D. expenses for travel and lodging as they do come from Oregon. Also there a green fee which is not my idea but the tours as another way to collect money. They get half of a 10 dollar green fee and the house gets half. This is up front and the people who play know that. Now I use that money to pay extra help but in the end I don't carei if I add a thousand or 2000 I am not going to lose money. Lets think about it logically.
First I get 6 months of free advertising all over including the regional newspaper as the Pechauer people advertise all their tournaments for months, location and phone number. Also it gets posted on AZ Billiards and other places for free. People all over the world mention your name. Vacation in central California, "hey lets go to that place where that pool tourney was, and visit". Get it, that kind of advertising is invaluable. It may be not much but it helps bring in business eventually.
Now all your local players are looking forward to a tourney with some good players and since the entry is low it might be fun to play in so a couple of months they are practicing like hell and now they play twice as much as they were. You have to count that to making money. Want to add it up, you proably will get back your added right there. If you don't lets go to the next point.
Teacherman says the players don't spend money. He is right to some extent but not all of them. But the regulars still do what they do, be it a few beers, water. soda or whatever. The point is "all of them are there now at once". More profit. Get it. And now what about some of the players that drink like its going out ot style. Ronnie Allen for one. He is there for 15 hours drinking. The point is there are a lot more people there than would be any Saturday afternoon in the summer. Now tell me I am not making more money. And who cares if the players are drinking water or sodas. That is the biggest profit margin product I sell. On water and soda I make 10 times the cost on beer it is 3 to 4 times. So who cares. Plus the water and soda drinkers drink twice as much. (except for Ronnie, lol).
Next point, tournament day arrives and they are lined up at the door to get in and most start spending a little right away and a little later friends and spectators arrive and you are making money, even though we are giving away coffee and dougnuts. That kind of business never happens in my neck of the woods at 10 or 11 in the morning in summer and only slightly better in the winter. Hell people are usually all sleeping in.
Now you complain the tourneys run all night. Give me a break. Think about it first before responding. If you never did it you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Most pool rooms hopefully can handle a 64 players field which is about average for a lot of tourneys. Double elimination means you have 7 rounds of play on Saturday and the rest Sunday. Figure it out Teacherman and Watchez. Allowing 1 hour a match(especially on bar tables) and starting at 11 a.m. , you will start your 7th round at 5 p.m. , and lets give or take an hour,(probably give an houjr). In your 7 th round of play you would gain 4 tables for your business to charge time and action if people are starting to match up after elimination. Now the next round you only need 8 tables, starting at 6 p.m. They are down by 7 or 8. That takes care of 'Saturday and your place is probably instantly filled. I find in the summer my pool room does notfill until 9 0r later due to daylight savings and everything else. So I am probably making more money now than any other Saturday at that time. So realistically you could run real late and still have no problem, because in later rounds the less tables you use. Now Sunday is no problem at all as you usually only bring back 16 players. Well that takes up a whole 8 tables the first round of play, 6 the second and then 4. Do not think that will effect a lot of business on early Sunday morning. It can do nothing but make you money. I calculate already made your money back but if your not convinced lets go on.
You get 3000 or more worth of product. So what if you cant sell it. Do you sell cues in your room? If you don't you should. You don't need a pro shop to do this, a cue display case will suffice. Well I keep several cues on hand and I paid for them at wholesale or whatever. It takes times to sell them. Just called an investment and its my choice to make the money later. Its called the cost of doing business. But when I start selling them I replace them right away and basically they are all free. Now if you get all that free product you will eventually makle a huge profit and then you can take half and replace all that product. That makes that added money you laid out a winning proposition.
In my opinion a thousand bucks added is nothing in the whole scheme of things. Mike Janis is right, you cannot lose and that is why he can guarantee a profit.
By the way if your lucky you might also get some local paper and t.v. coverage. My last tournament created interest in a local t.v. station and now they want to do a special report. wow. What kind of money would all that cost in advertising.
Also I would like to point out some numbers that do not make sense. If Teacherman makes
$1000 taking in $5000, that might be true if thats all he takes in and his nut is 4000. Which might be true if that was for the week. But if he takes in 10000 for the week his profit better be a lot more than that or he is doing something wrong. Once you make your weekly nut, everything else is profit. The more business you have your nut goes up slightly for food and beverage but your profit zooms.
So take it from someone who has been there, done that and will do it again.
The cost of adding to a tourney 1 to 2 thousand dollars
The cost of extra help 300 dollars
The cost of the tournament "priceless"
Considering the last experience I had with Teacherman I really did not want to respond but there has been so much misleading and illogical representations IMO it is now necessary since I spent most of the afternoon going through these two threads.
Lets start from the beginning when you decide to hold a tournament which I have down twice the last two years with the West Coast Pechauer tour. Being up front let me tell you I paid no fees the first year and 250 dollars the second to help defray the costs of the T.D. expenses for travel and lodging as they do come from Oregon. Also there a green fee which is not my idea but the tours as another way to collect money. They get half of a 10 dollar green fee and the house gets half. This is up front and the people who play know that. Now I use that money to pay extra help but in the end I don't carei if I add a thousand or 2000 I am not going to lose money. Lets think about it logically.
First I get 6 months of free advertising all over including the regional newspaper as the Pechauer people advertise all their tournaments for months, location and phone number. Also it gets posted on AZ Billiards and other places for free. People all over the world mention your name. Vacation in central California, "hey lets go to that place where that pool tourney was, and visit". Get it, that kind of advertising is invaluable. It may be not much but it helps bring in business eventually.
Now all your local players are looking forward to a tourney with some good players and since the entry is low it might be fun to play in so a couple of months they are practicing like hell and now they play twice as much as they were. You have to count that to making money. Want to add it up, you proably will get back your added right there. If you don't lets go to the next point.
Teacherman says the players don't spend money. He is right to some extent but not all of them. But the regulars still do what they do, be it a few beers, water. soda or whatever. The point is "all of them are there now at once". More profit. Get it. And now what about some of the players that drink like its going out ot style. Ronnie Allen for one. He is there for 15 hours drinking. The point is there are a lot more people there than would be any Saturday afternoon in the summer. Now tell me I am not making more money. And who cares if the players are drinking water or sodas. That is the biggest profit margin product I sell. On water and soda I make 10 times the cost on beer it is 3 to 4 times. So who cares. Plus the water and soda drinkers drink twice as much. (except for Ronnie, lol).
Next point, tournament day arrives and they are lined up at the door to get in and most start spending a little right away and a little later friends and spectators arrive and you are making money, even though we are giving away coffee and dougnuts. That kind of business never happens in my neck of the woods at 10 or 11 in the morning in summer and only slightly better in the winter. Hell people are usually all sleeping in.
Now you complain the tourneys run all night. Give me a break. Think about it first before responding. If you never did it you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Most pool rooms hopefully can handle a 64 players field which is about average for a lot of tourneys. Double elimination means you have 7 rounds of play on Saturday and the rest Sunday. Figure it out Teacherman and Watchez. Allowing 1 hour a match(especially on bar tables) and starting at 11 a.m. , you will start your 7th round at 5 p.m. , and lets give or take an hour,(probably give an houjr). In your 7 th round of play you would gain 4 tables for your business to charge time and action if people are starting to match up after elimination. Now the next round you only need 8 tables, starting at 6 p.m. They are down by 7 or 8. That takes care of 'Saturday and your place is probably instantly filled. I find in the summer my pool room does notfill until 9 0r later due to daylight savings and everything else. So I am probably making more money now than any other Saturday at that time. So realistically you could run real late and still have no problem, because in later rounds the less tables you use. Now Sunday is no problem at all as you usually only bring back 16 players. Well that takes up a whole 8 tables the first round of play, 6 the second and then 4. Do not think that will effect a lot of business on early Sunday morning. It can do nothing but make you money. I calculate already made your money back but if your not convinced lets go on.
You get 3000 or more worth of product. So what if you cant sell it. Do you sell cues in your room? If you don't you should. You don't need a pro shop to do this, a cue display case will suffice. Well I keep several cues on hand and I paid for them at wholesale or whatever. It takes times to sell them. Just called an investment and its my choice to make the money later. Its called the cost of doing business. But when I start selling them I replace them right away and basically they are all free. Now if you get all that free product you will eventually makle a huge profit and then you can take half and replace all that product. That makes that added money you laid out a winning proposition.
In my opinion a thousand bucks added is nothing in the whole scheme of things. Mike Janis is right, you cannot lose and that is why he can guarantee a profit.
By the way if your lucky you might also get some local paper and t.v. coverage. My last tournament created interest in a local t.v. station and now they want to do a special report. wow. What kind of money would all that cost in advertising.
Also I would like to point out some numbers that do not make sense. If Teacherman makes
$1000 taking in $5000, that might be true if thats all he takes in and his nut is 4000. Which might be true if that was for the week. But if he takes in 10000 for the week his profit better be a lot more than that or he is doing something wrong. Once you make your weekly nut, everything else is profit. The more business you have your nut goes up slightly for food and beverage but your profit zooms.
So take it from someone who has been there, done that and will do it again.
The cost of adding to a tourney 1 to 2 thousand dollars
The cost of extra help 300 dollars
The cost of the tournament "priceless"
Man I was thinking for a minute you wanted to move to Aragon, but then you said no snakes. Snakes are everywhere in Georgia.MikeJanis said:
The good part is most are not poisonous. Unless you are rich you may have to move about an hour out from downtown to afford it. Land here is about 8 times what it was where I lived in Missouri, but it is the price we had to pay to be back near family.Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
cueman said:Man I was thinking for a minute you wanted to move to Aragon, but then you said no snakes. Snakes are everywhere in Georgia.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Monica was telling me of a place that was SW of Atlanta. She mentioned the prices are still reasonable. She also said it was by a new mall about 30 or so minutes from Atlanta. Any Clue ? Is this a good area?
MikeJanis said:
Not sure what you are looking for in the way of surroundings. Take a good look at traffic both the local traffic and the Hotlanta traffic.
McDonough and Stockbridge is a nice area and is growing. Traffic is
what I what consider a little bad there but not crazy.
On the SW side it might be around Peachtree City. Nice area.
On that side you have to figure in airport traffic and transient traffic.
Theres alot of people that live on that side the travel to the city everyday.
Even down to Newnan people are driving into Atlanta for work. I 85 is pretty good there and a few years ago they widened it all the way to Newnan.
I like the East side better. I used to live in Athens and liked it and some of the small towns around it.
Its really expanded out towards Athens along the 316.
IMO its easier to get to places in Atl from that side. With your travel schedule you might consider the ease of travel into your decision. Nothing worse than getting stuck at the start of a long trip.
Good luck with the Snakes. I dont care if they are all non-poisonious they all get the same treatment.
If you get a wild hair you ight try Auburn AL or the surrounding area.
Its not a metropolis by any stretch but its good place to live and raise a
family. I moved from there for work but will move back. Theres not alot of pool action if your looking for that but theres not in ATL either.
BTW-- quit laying down hustling guys playing banks...8 in a row...come on man show your game..let it out...