Deuel's 10 ball break at Valley Forge

spoons

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Near as I can tell, this is what Corey was doing. Granted, John Schmidt watched it from nearly the same place I did, and he was really struggling to make it work. Take this for what it is- an amateur who's trying to learn from the pros and from those on this board who know more than I do.

The rack
It was similar every time, but the pairs of balls are pretty much interchangable (2,3) (4,5) (6,7) (8,9). I suppose you could choose which side of the table you'd like each ball to end up on, depending on your preferred patterns. For a pro, that's probably a little less important.

CueTable Help



The break
He broke from slightly off center and seemed to be trying to hit the 1 ball as squarely as possible, with what appeared to be a hint of draw on the cue ball. The draw should help him make the 2 and 3 in the sides. It also brings the cue ball to the head rail out of the traffic, and back to the middle of the table for position on the 1. It was not a "soft" break like he uses in 9-ball. He was hitting them hard enough to send the 6 and 7 around the table 3 rails, but not much harder than that.

What he was playing (page 2 of the wei table)
He seemed to be clearly playing the 2 and 3 balls in their respective side pockets. Those are the two he made most often. But, as a secondary option, he seemed to be playing the 6 and 7 in their respective corners. By breaking from a few inches off of center, he should send those two balls around the table at slightly different speeds and give them a chance to miss kissing each other near the head rail.

The rest of the rack (page 3 of the wei table)
Racking the 4 and 5 where he did leaves those two balls together and uptable which would be the most natural place for the 2 and 3 balls to head if he doesn't make them in the side, and racking the 8 and 9 where he did leaves a 3 ball cluster near the foot spot for him to finish the out. If the 6 and 7 don't fall, they're likely to end up down at the foot of the table which gives him a couple of balls to work off of to get position on the 8,9,10 cluster.

He rarely made more than a ball or two on the break, but if he ever made all four of the ones he was playing, it would be a throw in rack. Regardless, he left himself similar, and often simple racks to work with. The knowledge seems like something straight out of Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets, but as usual, it seems that Corey has put the time in to figure out how to make it work more often than not.

Now I'm just trying to figure out when I'll have the time to give it a try myself.
 
He had a different pattern (from what I could tell) when he played Shane. His cueball had a mind of its own during that match as well.. he got some very bad rolls on the break.
 
I would say most definitely that he was trying to make the THREE in this particular case, in the side.

I think that given the new conditions, the same side second ball is the easiest to control.
It's kind of hard to control both balls, but who knows.
 
Corey is a smart dude, and I appreciate what he was doing with the rack.....BUT....isn't it supposed to be a random placement of the balls in the rack? and, if John noticed the pattern racking, why didn't he say something? It's not about starting trouble, just about following the rules.

Also, why don't they have a ref taking care of the racking for a finals worth 20k?
 
It looked like the same pattern against Shane. That was actually the first match that I noticed him playing the 8,9,10 cluster at the end of the rack, and he was definitely playing the 2 and 3 in the side pockets for that entire match. He did get some bad rolls on the break, but he played some smart push outs and great safeties to overcome them. Shane on the other hand made 3 balls a couple of times with that snap of his. Both impressive if you ask me.

John Schmidt was trying to emulate Corey's break for a while, but even after he stopped that, he seemed to still rack them with the same pattern. It would have been hard for him to raise a fuss and not draw attention to himself.

It's hard to take "rack your own" away from the players. If you're doing this for your living, do you want to trust that someone else - regardless of how honorable their intentions are - will give you a tight rack? These guys were giving themselves the best racks they could muster, and the final came down to hill/hill. If you slug yourself, it's on you, but can you imagine getting slugged by someone else with 20K on the line?
 
Yeah, Joe Tucker diagrammed this break shot in his Racking Secrets work. You folks can learn by practicing the shot, over & over & over... like Joe...
 
[snip interesting analysis of Corey's 10-ball break]

Thanks for the post, spoons - very interesting. I want to print out page 2 of your diagram and frame it on the wall of my pool room.

Now I'm just trying to figure out when I'll have the time to give it a try myself.

I have a suggestion, also involving my pool room (or Pressure). Call or PM me if you have an evening free this week.

pj
chgo
 
I want to print out page 2 of your diagram and frame it on the wall of my pool room.

Yikes. "rough" would be a very generous description of the accuracy in that diagram. Regardless...it would be an honor to be published in the cathedral that is the Patrick Johnson pool room. :)

I have a suggestion, also involving my pool room (or Pressure). Call or PM me if you have an evening free this week.

PM on its way.
 
Thanks for the post, spoons - very interesting. I want to print out page 2 of your diagram and frame it on the wall of my pool room.

For those that don't know how to print out a Wei diagram:

1. Hit the Edit button (it looks like a pencil) to launch the Cuetable with the diagram.

2. Scroll to the desired page ( i.e., page 2 )

3. Press Alt + Print Screen. This copies a screen shot onto a Microsoft Clipboard.

4. Open a photo editor like MS PhotoEditor and paste the new image.

5. Crop and print.


As an alternate, you can hit the tools button (looks like a wrench) and then hit the Screen Shot button (supposed to look like a camera). This crops most of it for you as well, so this might be easier.

HTH,

Fred <~~~ asking spoons for permission to print as well
 
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I want to print out page 2 of your diagram and frame it on the wall of my pool room.
Yikes. "rough" would be a very generous description of the accuracy in that diagram. Regardless...it would be an honor to be published in the cathedral that is the Patrick Johnson pool room.
In the Church of Spherology we're only interested in the pretty colors. This could be the first stained glass window.

pj
chgo
 
For those that don't know how to print out a Wei diagram:

1. Hit the Edit button (it looks like a pencil) to launch the Cuetable with the diagram.

2. Scroll to the desired page ( i.e., page 2 )

3. Press Alt + Print Screen. This copies a screen shot onto a Microsoft Clipboard.

4. Open a photo editor like MS PhotoEditor and paste the new image.

5. Crop and print.


As an alternate, you can hit the tools button (looks like a wrench) and then hit the Screen Shot button (supposed to look like a camera). This crops most of it for you as well, so this might be easier.

HTH,

Fred <~~~ asking spoons for permission to print as well

Fred, are you doing this in Vista? I can't seem to find the screen print anywhere.
 
Fred, are you doing this in Vista? I can't seem to find the screen print anywhere.

It's on your keyboard ("Print Screen" - I don't have to press ALT on my keyboard). It will look like nothing happened, but a copy of the image on your screen will be copied to your Windows Clipboard ready to Paste into Paint or another image-editing program.

pj
chgo
 
Fred, are you doing this in Vista? I can't seem to find the screen print anywhere.

It's one of your keyboard buttons. Usually, it's above the number pad or above the Insert/Delete buttons.

Either way, try Wei's toolbar (Wrench, then Camera).

Fred
 
It's on your keyboard ("Print Screen" - I don't have to press ALT on my keyboard). It will look like nothing happened, but a copy of the image on your screen will be copied to your Windows Clipboard ready to Paste into Paint or another image-editing program.

pj
chgo

Learn something new everyday!! I guess I don't have to hit the ALT button either. When did that happen?? LOL!!

Thanks,

Fred
 
Corey is a smart dude, and I appreciate what he was doing with the rack.....BUT....isn't it supposed to be a random placement of the balls in the rack? and, if John noticed the pattern racking, why didn't he say something? It's not about starting trouble, just about following the rules.

Also, why don't they have a ref taking care of the racking for a finals worth 20k?

From what I can tell, they all pattern rack... or they lose. If John says something, Corey can flip two balls around and now, its random.

If the whole tournament is "rack your own", the finals should be as well.
 
pattern-racking shouldn't be allowed.

But I know that if it isn't rack-your-own your opponent will pattern-racking against you...

It's unfortunately easy to figure out how to rack the balls to let your opponent get an easy or difficult out, both in 9-ball, 10-ball and even Rotation. (In rotation, atleast easier out)

Till we get refs racking on all tables, it's hard to do anything about it...
 
pattern-racking shouldn't be allowed.

But I know that if it isn't rack-your-own your opponent will pattern-racking against you...

It's unfortunately easy to figure out how to rack the balls to let your opponent get an easy or difficult out, both in 9-ball, 10-ball and even Rotation. (In rotation, atleast easier out)

Till we get refs racking on all tables, it's hard to do anything about it...

I agree. If they want one of the contestants to rack, and they want a random rack, then they should print out X number of pre-randomized patterns for each match and require that they be used.

They could even have each player use pattern A for their first break, pattern B for their second break, and so on. That way there could be no complaints that one player received an easier pattern than the other.

If they don't want to go there, I say just let them rack however they want.
 
High Res Output of Page 2

Scroll down to the bottom of this page (http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=5004&posted=1#post5004 ) for a high res screen capture of Spoon's page 2 (3057x1977, 640 KB) You can save it as your desktop picture, or print it for posters.

http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=5004&posted=1#post5004

I can output high res table diagrams for writers and publishers at a very reasonable fee, please contact me if interested :)

To print out a table layout, you should use the built-in screen capture function. It requires no additional editing and the output is clean.

Here is how
  1. Open the tool box by clicking on the spanner icon in the lower left of CueTable editor
  2. Press on the ScreenCapture<P>. It will take a snapshot of the table onto computer clipboard.
  3. Your can then go to any imaging software (Paint for PC, Preview for Mac) and do a computer menu: edit: paste. The previously captured pic will show up
  4. save it in a picture format (GIF, JPG, TIF, PNG, etc.)
 

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