Diamond Pool Tables - Degree of Difficulty

[jrctherake]

The Red Label Diamond I was practicing on cost me a tournament win against Morra first round of the One Pocket the year he won the Banks.. Had him down 2-1 and could not make a cross corner to close him out to save my life.

Didn't even know there was such a thing as Red Label / Blue Label. I just went thinking that all cross corners were super sensitive to speed. Didn't realize I had been playing on utter garbage.

Short Bus Russ

That has been my experience as well as many, many others. If they had not changed it would have IMO been a disaster for diamond billiards.

Having said the above, I absolutely LOVE blue label diamonds. Even the bar box diamonds and I hate all toy tables in general.

Rake

 

[easy-e]

The Red Label Diamond I was practicing on cost me a tournament win against Morra first round of the One Pocket the year he won the Banks.. Had him down 2-1 and could not make a cross corner to close him out to save my life.

Didn't even know there was such a thing as Red Label / Blue Label. I just went thinking that all cross corners were super sensitive to speed. Didn't realize I had been playing on utter garbage.

Short Bus Russ

Was he making HIS cross corner banks?

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Was he making HIS cross corner banks?

Lol... Let's just say after watching the full finals the night before, my moving priority was to never give him a bank, no matter how tough... It even led to me putting him up in the far corner on his side of the table...

On a positive note... My wife and I just found the perfect place here in Germany last night, with room in the attic for a full 9 footer, and room for a complete gym in a separate room.

Now, just need to hear back from the guy at the European Diamond dealership in Finland on the possibility of getting a Diamond with a three piece slate for the attic.I was gonna try to buy a GC III and get it "Diamondized", but spoke with RealKingCobra, and he reminded me I'll always be able to sell the Diamond at little to no loss if I have to leave Germany..

 

[rtrdriver]

I have to agree on all of your points. I played at Rack-em when you owned it and didn't much care for the way the diamonds played either. It may have been because we were playing on Murray tables most of the time at a place down the street.

They have changed the tables since then; now they have the blue label tables as compared to the red label tables that were at Rack-em. And yes, IMO they are the best playing tables made today. Although it seems many have the opposite opinion.

I'm an old school player that learned on slow thick felt tables with buckets for pockets. When I play on a table, I want to be challenged by it and not have something that anyone with lessor skills can be able to make, in my opinion, slop shots because it's so easy to play on.

I think the reason most of the opinions on Diamond tables are negative, is because you need to be more accurate to make balls on these tables, not hit half way down the rail and the ball still falls in. Or be able to slam a pocket and have it rattle and not go in. These tables have turned the game into a more finesse game rather than an any man's game.

I understand the commercial aspect of the Diamond not being a user friendly table for amateurs. Maybe a room owner should consider having a few other types of tables for those types of players. The best thing would be to cater to both amateurs and the more skilled players. You don't have to have a room full of Diamond tables.

:wave:

I opened up a room in Denver early nineties. We were the first room in CO to have Diamond 9 footers. Welllllllllllllllll, they sucked. Tony of Tonys Hustlers set em up and did a great job, I think we had 16 and a four pack of bar tables and a snooker. Name was Rack Em, and they are still open. I did design the room for ''play''. Anywho, the shelfs were too deep, there were no holders for the rakes, we needed beads at every table for scoring, and the balls banked COMPLETELY different than all the tables in the last century or more. They have come a looooooooooooooong way since then and being at DCC this past year, I actually played on one that played better than any table I have ever played on since the early sixties. They finally got the rails, the pocket shelfs right and they at least have baskets for their alleged ball box area. the Artemis intercontinental 66 cushions play perfect. They bolt up to GC I's and on.

 

[gbs52]

Recently moved here to Florida- been playing at a room called Diamonds in Cape Coral which features Diamond pool tables- my first real experience with these tables. they are nine footers, probably fairly old, look like 4 1/2 inch pockets ( 2 cue balls will not fit into them side to side) shelf depth seems rather deep. these tables seem to play much, much tougher than Gold Crowns that I have played on most of my life. pockets reject anything that touches a rail even slightly, and hitting a pocket point is pure doom!
So far still trying to adjust my game to these tables, but my initial observations are that the pockets seem to reject balls that REALLY should be a score given a REASONABLE allowance for aiming. any time the object ball needs to travel more than six feet to the pocket, only a slow to moderate slow speed seems to pocket a ball. Straight pool runs are a disaster on these tables, as balls that are run down along the cushions to the pocket are rejected with even the SLIGHTEST amount of off center clearance. Also break shots in 14.1 cannot be hit with the correct speed to open up balls, as most are rejected from the pockets. As for bank shots- these tables seem to bank much shorter than Gold Crowns or Olhausens - I need to ADD angle to side pocket bank shots to make a bank.
Is my experience unique, I doubt it as I am a fairly good player and am really struggling to make balls that previously required no thought. I can see these tables causing young people to forget about pool and try another sport as the difficulty factor would keep player satisfaction to a minimum. I look around me and see lesser players come in and seem to miss 75% of their shots - not good for their confidence or enjoyment of time spent on these tables. Curious as to what experienced players feel about these tables compared to "old standard" Brunswicks etc. BTW- I am up for this challenge, but at times I know that i hit a ball "right" and these tables still reject- a bit frustrating, to say the least. Is this really good for pool?

My new 9 foot Diamond has 4 1/2” pockets but shelf will completely hide a ball with lots of room to spare. I’m 72 and hate this table. Plays like crap. It does roll and banks good. You can’t touch a rail or it will spit ball back out even though it went in. I’m thinking of grinding an inch or so off somehow. I hope some will shed some light on this for a fix.

 

[gbs52]

Appreciate the comments. I will go on record as saying that I do NOT like these Diamond tables. I think that as far as a factor contributing to the lack of pool enthusiasm in younger folks, these types of tables would certainly be a contributing factor. Many years ago as a young person, I began to really enjoy this game, as Brunswick home tables in the 1960's with larger pockets allowed one to get fairly proficient and thus have a sense of enjoyment and satisfaction in playing the game. I have stayed with it my entire life because of that. I think that most young people being introduced to the game on tables such as these would quickly walk away from the game because it would just not be fun at all to watch balls constantly rattle in the pocket jaws. I remember pool halls would usually have just ONE table up front near the desk with tighter pockets - there was a reason for having only one - the other 15 tables kept people coming BACK to the ROOM! For myself, a seasoned player, this is now a new challenge, I doubt that I would be playing and contributing today if my first experiences were on a table like these Diamonds.

I don’t like them either. Play like garbage! I paid a lot of money for a garbage playing table. I think it mainly the extremely deep pocket shelves.

 

[Korsakoff]

My new 9 foot Diamond has 4 1/2” pockets but shelf will completely hide a ball with lots of room to spare. I’m 72 and hate this table. Plays like crap. It does roll and banks good. You can’t touch a rail or it will spit ball back out even though it went in. I’m thinking of grinding an inch or so off somehow. I hope some will shed some light on this for a fix.

You probably should have started a new thread with this question; many established members do not reply when old threads are resurrected.

I have a 9' Diamond Paragon that plays like a dream. However, I ordered from the factory with 4.75 (termed "league cut") pockets. I was 66 in May 2020 when I ordered and knew that I wanted to still enjoy pocketing balls as my skills diminished with age. You still have to hit the ball in the hole (can't graze the rail). And, you don't have much room to "cheat the pocket" like on the old Gold Crowns or Gandy Big G's I played on back in the day. But, those are minor things. I can still shoot pretty straight and see pretty well. My misses are all my fault, not the table's.

 

[garczar]

I don’t like them either. Play like garbage! I paid a lot of money for a garbage playing table. I think it mainly the extremely deep pocket shelves.

The center is still the center. You need to shoot straighter pure-n-simple. If you're hitting that much cushion on the way in its your fault the ball doesn't fall.

 

[Black-Balled]

My new 9 foot Diamond has 4 1/2” pockets but shelf will completely hide a ball with lots of room to spare. I’m 72 and hate this table. Plays like crap. It does roll and banks good. You can’t touch a rail or it will spit ball back out even though it went in. I’m thinking of grinding an inch or so off somehow. I hope some will shed some light on this for a fix.

Tighten up!

That torture device will never play easier than it does today, without mechanical intervention.

Welcome to the club

 

[fastone371]

I don’t like them either. Play like garbage! I paid a lot of money for a garbage playing table. I think it mainly the extremely deep pocket shelves.

Diamonds play tough but fair, the days of Gold Crowns with 5"+ pockets are long gone. 4 1/2" pockets are pretty much the standard on quality tables. If you are just playing for enjoyment and not planning to play in tournaments you can have a mechanic open up your pockets, I think its easier than tightening big pockets and I don't think you will need to replace the cushions but I could be wrong about that. It may also diminish the value of your table as most buyers would expect 4 1/2" corners.

These are the pockets on my Gold Crown I.

 

[garczar]

Diamonds play tough but fair, the days of Gold Crowns with 5"+ pockets are long gone. 4 1/2" pockets are pretty much the standard on quality tables. If you are just playing for enjoyment and not planning to play in tournaments you can have a mechanic open up your pockets, I think its easier than tightening big pockets and I don't think you will need to replace the cushions but I could be wrong about that. It may also diminish the value of your table as most buyers would expect 4 1/2" corners.
View attachment 835086
These are the pockets on my Gold Crown I.

just a fyi but when doing this to show pocket size the balls should be positioned side-by-side with a line going thru their equators parallel to a line across the points. if the pockets are truly 4.5 the equators will freeze on the points. if less than 4.5 the balls equator line will be more towards the bed side of the points. i know you know this but a lot of people place the balls like this and you can't tell the actual size properly. love GC1's, grew up playing in a post-Hustler boom room with over 30 of them.

 

[trob]

You aren’t as good as you think you are lol … 4.5 Inch pockets aren’t that tight. Mine are 4.25 and I have no problem. If you hit it bad it doesn’t go in. I think 4 inch like the pros play are to tight for amateurs but 4.5 is fine. You’re just used to buckets. My fundamentals are better then ever playing on a diamond daily.

Edit to say diamond 7 foot tables are the best playing tables on the market and it’s not close. 9 foot though when asked I always tell people you can save a lot of money and get a nice gold crown and you’ll be happy but for 7 foot tables there is only 1 choice.

I was frustrated to when I got mine because of the balls rattling… I didn’t wine about it though. I knew it was on me so I focused on my fundamentals and got better. Now I run out the same as I do on a valley. They just wont except balls with the lazy bar box big pocket punchy stroke. It needs to be smooth and consistant and they will go in the hole.

 

[9BallKY]

Most of the balls that I miss don’t hang in the pocket. Which means most the shots I miss were complete misses. It doesn’t matter the pocket size if you hit 2 inches from it. I play on a diamond with almost 10 year old cloth and yes it’s easy to hang balls if you don’t hit them clean but usually I miss because I miss completely. I’m sure this is true for most players if they think about it.