Diamond Pro Am Experience

"And if I need more help, and the customer is not willing, or unable to help, then I let the customer know that there will be an additional charge for extra help as that part of the charge was not included in the original quote for delivery and set up"

wow, you really are shady
 
smokeandapancak said:
realkingcobra said:
OK .... not trying to be an ass here.. just playing a little devils advocate if you will....

Is the customer aware of that possible extra charge for the start?

Once again I am not trying to paint you as a bad guy ... obviously you do what you can with what you got...but you have to understand my point.... I know it sucks but hey that's the Customer service industry for ya !!!!
In 23 years of doing this job, never ONCE have I ever had a customer complain about helping! AND if I was ever informed in advance that I could count on NO help at the other end of the delivery, I've always made arrangement for any extra help needed to get the job done as well as any extra costs that might apply!

Glen
 
smashmouth said:
"And if I need more help, and the customer is not willing, or unable to help, then I let the customer know that there will be an additional charge for extra help as that part of the charge was not included in the original quote for delivery and set up"

wow, you really are shady
Shady?????..LMAO, what ever!
 
After reading all this and trying to be fair to both sides, I've reached the following conclusion.

I still want to buy a Diamond table someday. I would love to have Glen be the one to set it up.
 
smashmouth said:
"And if I need more help, and the customer is not willing, or unable to help, then I let the customer know that there will be an additional charge for extra help as that part of the charge was not included in the original quote for delivery and set up"

wow, you really are shady
Let me tell you something buddy, I delivered a 9ft Diamond Professional table to a guys house in Texas one time. The setup was $450.00. When I got to the guys house and parked out on the street in front of his house...someone forgot to inform me of the steps STARTING at the street curb! 37 f*#king stairs from the street level up to the top of the stairs to where the table went! Now in case you're not aware of how much a 30mm slate weighs let me inform you, it weighs 250lbs each times 3 slates, not to mention the rest of the table parts being packed up those same stairs, plus all my tools! And you know what? Even though I told the customer that someone either wasn't informed of the stairs, or didn't ask the right questions about having the table installed...I still installed the table for the same price! AND...got no help from the customer what-so-ever!

Shady???????? Go f*#k yourself buddy! Let me know your name and I promise that if you EVER buy a table from Diamond, I'll pass on your delivery in a New York second, regardless of what the price is!

Glen

PS. I would WELCOME ANY ONE to do my job if you really think you can! I don't know of one single billiards technician that would go and spend 9 months out of the year on the road away from his family to deliver pool tables to wanting customers...not one! Why in the hell do you think I'm as big as I am? That's why I work alone, besides the fact that I couldn't handle sitting beside some guy riding around the country for that long in a truck! It would drive me nuts! Always hungry, always complaining about sleeping in the truck, always complaining about never being at home, always complaining about the pay! Who needs that?
 
mechanic/player said:
Nobody wanted it to go like this, not you,not Diamond, not Glen, but it did and so you three had to work it out. Since you had to let everyone know about it on here as you have, you must have known this will make Diamond and Glenn look bad and you look like the innocent customer.

You have left many of us now wondering about Diamonds and Glenns service , I also have to wonder how big of a tool you were for them to ban you, I'd guess a pretty big one.
Sometimes you just have to consider the source........
 
realkingcobra said:
smokeandapancak said:
In 23 years of doing this job, never ONCE have I ever had a customer complain about helping! AND if I was ever informed in advance that I could count on NO help at the other end of the delivery, I've always made arrangement for any extra help needed to get the job done as well as any extra costs that might apply!

Glen
Glen,

Well I did inform you that I had back surgery in October and that you should not expect me to help in any way. I even sent you pictures ahead of time so you could see the entrance that you would have to negotiate. I would have paid extra for a second person if this was ever mentioned.
So please respond to that and tell everyone if I am telling the truth.
 
realkingcobra said:
Shady?????..LMAO, what ever!
I dont believe Glen is shady as my letter stated, I believe he has a good heart and he is an excellent table mechanic.
 
I would like to say that AZ9BALLER is alone in his experience with Diamond but I too had some issues with Diamond when I purchased my table. I don't necessarily agree with posting these issues in an open forum where Diamond may not respond. Glen I have a lot of respect for you and would still hire you as a table mechanic. One thing you should realize is that even though you aren't an employee with Diamond as a contractor you are representing them and their product.

When you are making a $5,000 purchase you expect a to be treated in a professional manner. This is a major purchase for most people and they only want the transaction to go smoothly. The customer wouldn't have been calling 40 times if he had got what he was promised in the first place. Circumstances do come up but the customer shouldn't have to call to find out what's happening. If someone is not going to make it to a delivery they should be the one placing the call to the customer.

I am very happy with my table. There were a few bumps along the way to getting my table but in the end Diamond did fulfill their promises. I think they have a lot of room for improvement in the area of customer service. I hope they only take this as constructive criticism because I do think they are a good company. Also there are difficult customers out there but when you are a retailer you don't get to pick and choose who you sell to unless you want to go out of business real quickly.
 
smashmouth said:
Cobra

You're pretty ignorant

You expect people (paying customers) to help you (the worker) move and
install tables????

You use an open bed truck allowing tables to get damage/dirty and apparently could care less?

First of all, let me be clear, I am just getting back into this conversation. I see Glen has posted another post at the end of this thread, and he has probably disabused you of this notion, but I haven't read his post yet.

If you read his posts on the mechanics section, you'd realize that Glen needs no help setting up a Diamond table. He can and HAS done a Diamond Pro/Am by HIMSELF. He constructed a special dolly that allows him to tip a Diamond table into place by himself.

Now, that that is taken care of.. Furthermore, if I had realized THIS was the "Glen" we were talking about, I would have been even less tolerant of the OP's tirade against Glen. Again, reading Glen's posts on the Mechanic section, you'll soon realize the guy is a pioneer in the industry. Crap, he probably helped DESIGN the Diamond table.

So if he friggin tells us he had 8 flat tires and had to make his own gasoline from crude oil he happened to find in Arizona, then I believe him.

Russ
 
Diamond & Glen

Being in the trucking industry, dealing with delivery people and customers daily AND having had a USED Diamond IPT table delivered recently, I would have to say that Diamond and Glen do an AMAZING job!!

Manufacturing or having a product of size (pool tables) delivered is NO easy task. It not like you just pull up to a dock and a forklift unloads it. You need an experienced table man that knows the ins and outs of the table. Next…. everyone wants it delivered in a covered or enclosed vehicle, on time, no damage, with a full crew to unload and setup. How much is that worth? Let’s take a look:

1. Used enclosed truck setup for offloading tables – $16,000.00 $950 mo w/insurance
2. 2 delivery men ( contractors) $800 week each
3. fuel – $350 week EASY
4. meals on the road, away from home constantly ???
5. Motels – $350 week easy

Life is NOT an exact science. We have to be flexible. My table was not delivered on schedule. I did not panic and start burning up the phone lines. I knew they would call when they were here. I have a monthly tournament on a Sat with a ring game the Friday night before. Guess when they got in the area? Friday night or Saturday morning. I had someone meet them, they got it setup and by midnight after my tournament I got to hit some balls on it. Awesome table!Great price!……thanks to Kevin Trudeau and his failed IPT Tour.

Can’t wait to do more business with Diamond!

Grateful in Texas,

Ray
 
AZ9BALLER said:
I dont believe Glen is shady as my letter stated, I believe he has a good heart and he is an excellent table mechanic.
Gary, I have no beef with you what-so-ever, we did a lot of talking while I was there, and I did appreciate your help, in other words I wasn't going to tell you "no don't help" but I could have and would have lifted the end of the dolly that the table was on by myself if necessary and just to inform everyone on here...that's a total lift of 650lbs at one end of the dolly to step the center wheels over a door jam, or down a 4" step, I've done it enough to know that dead lifting 650lbs for me is not really a problem! But to have made such an issue of this whole situation Gary was really out of line on your part friend! I wish things would have gone differently but if we could go back and change the past, I wouldn't have gotten divorced 3 times, but life just don't work that way. When I arrived at your house you were very understanding of what it took to deliver your pool table and the reasons why...ie; Ranger pickup truck/18foot trailer. You were even surprised when I told you that I had to pay all of my expenses for your delivery, and that Diamond didn't supply me with a big truck and pay all my costs. You then understood fully that if it wasn't for me, you wouldn't have even received your table, as I'm the only person west of Indiana that is even willing to deliver these beasts! Check out a map of the United
States and see how big of an area that is sometime, then remind yourself that I am the ONLY person doing this!

Last question for you Gary, what is it you want/expect of Diamond or myself to do now to make you a happy customer? What ELSE has to be done? Diamond gave me their 15ft box truck to use for delivering pool tables now, still in combination with my 18ft trailer as they now know for sure my delivery abilities are seriously hampered with the equipment that I've been using, I commend Diamond for that, and that goes for Chad as well. What's next Gary, the balls in your court, what do you suggest?

Glen
 
AZ9BALLER said:
realkingcobra said:
Glen,

Well I did inform you that I had back surgery in October and that you should not expect me to help in any way. I even sent you pictures ahead of time so you could see the entrance that you would have to negotiate. I would have paid extra for a second person if this was ever mentioned.
So please respond to that and tell everyone if I am telling the truth.
A second person was not needed as with the help from your friend Jack and you, there was absolutely no problem installing your table, and no one got hurt in the process, not even you Gary.

Glen
 
The guy who made that "shady" comment is way out of line. I generally don't put toooo much stake in the rep, but when you have negative rep after almost 400 posts, I think that says something about the types of comments you choose to make on here. LOL.

I think people need to keep in mind what Glen has to go through to get that table from God-knows-where to your living room and set up to perfection. Getting a top-quality table with a top-quality installation (resulting in "perfect" playing conditions that a pro would be pleased with) is not like ordering a washer/dryer set or refrigerator from Sears. He's not the cable guy. He should be cut some slack, considering the final product you get, and considering that he is also a very nice guy himself.

I've been through hell in the past, some of it very recent past, simply trying to get nice playing conditions at home. From my experience, a good pool table technician is hard to find, and I'm talking about someone who will simply set up a table that is already in your home and not damage it and/or make it play weird. Now, add to that the requirement that he has to deliver that table from Timbuktu, along with several others in the same trip AND will make them play perfectly, at a reasonable price to boot. Who does that? This guy's like Superman of the pool table industry. LOL.

Try to cut him some slack, because we need more guys like him, not less.
 
If I buy ANY item for $5k+ whether a TV, furniture, or pool table that requires set up and delivery. If I pay good money for the service aspect of the sale that is what I expect and hold the company I bought said item from responsible for.

To expand on that. I could care less why an item was not delivered when agreed upon. I understand things happen and having worked delivering everything from furniture to pool tables myself, some things can't be helped. But even when I was late with a delivery I was never upset at the customer for being a little pissed at me for being late. It was MY JOB to be where I was supposed to be, whatever that took. No excuses. It is a tough racket and I will not be going back to it.

I have read enough of realkingcobras posts to understand he knows what he is doing. After the numerous " yeah but this happened..." posts I think he does himself a disservice. Looks bad. Just say " My apologies, things happened beyond my control, how can I make you happy?" It's what I used to do and it works wonders.

Because in the end the customer JUST DOES NOT CARE why they did not get what they paid for. Diamond bears just as much responsibility as the mechanic here.

Oh yeah, if my 5 grand worth of precision crafted table rolled up in an open trailer with a tarp over it after being driven hundreds of miles across the country, I don't care if Luther Lassiter and Willie Mosconi are setting it up, I'm pissed. Right or wrong say what you will, I'm still pissed.
 
realkingcobra said:
Gary, I have no beef with you what-so-ever, we did a lot of talking while I was there, and I did appreciate your help, in other words I wasn't going to tell you "no don't help" but I could have and would have lifted the end of the dolly that the table was on by myself if necessary and just to inform everyone on here...that's a total lift of 650lbs at one end of the dolly to step the center wheels over a door jam, or down a 4" step, I've done it enough to know that dead lifting 650lbs for me is not really a problem! But to have made such an issue of this whole situation Gary was really out of line on your part friend! I wish things would have gone differently but if we could go back and change the past, I wouldn't have gotten divorced 3 times, but life just don't work that way. When I arrived at your house you were very understanding of what it took to deliver your pool table and the reasons why...ie; Ranger pickup truck/18foot trailer. You were even surprised when I told you that I had to pay all of my expenses for your delivery, and that Diamond didn't supply me with a big truck and pay all my costs. You then understood fully that if it wasn't for me, you wouldn't have even received your table, as I'm the only person west of Indiana that is even willing to deliver these beasts! Check out a map of the United
States and see how big of an area that is sometime, then remind yourself that I am the ONLY person doing this!

Last question for you Gary, what is it you want/expect of Diamond or myself to do now to make you a happy customer? What ELSE has to be done? Diamond gave me their 15ft box truck to use for delivering pool tables now, still in combination with my 18ft trailer as they now know for sure my delivery abilities are seriously hampered with the equipment that I've been using, I commend Diamond for that, and that goes for Chad as well. What's next Gary, the balls in your court, what do you suggest?

Glen
Glen,

I am glad to hear they got you a better truck for delivery. I dont expect anything from Diamond other than if I need parts or service that they will honor that since I bought a table from them (and I would expect to pay for whatever parts or service as any other customer would). If you read my letter you will see that my beef is not with you but with the attitude Chad Scharlow took with me. This thread would not even be on here had it not been for Mr. Scharlow. I have told anyone and everyone that knows the history of this situation that I was more upset that the VP of Diamond (Mr. Scharlow)took the stance that he did me a favor by selling me a table and I should be greatful for what I got and how I got it. And took no responsiblility for any issues whatsover and blamed it all on you.

I will tell you this, since this has happened I have had several PM's from many AZers asking me basically two questions.

Q 1. Do I think Glen is a good table mechanic and should they let him install their table?
A 1. Every single one of them got a yes answer and that they could not go wrong by allowing you to do so.

Q 2. Do I think the Diamond Pro Am 9' is a quality table and would I buy it again?

A 2. My answer is yes I believe it is the absolute BEST on the market and yes I would buy it again if there was another distributor.

So I think the best way to put it Glen; is that I have no beefs with you and that I believe you are very good and passionate at what you do. I also believe you did try to do your best at keeping dates but that fact is that did not happen. So there should have been some sort of compensation for my time.

I also believe that the end product I received was excellent but the road to get there was very bumpy and I accecpted your apology but the VP crossed the line by telling me "were done, no parts no service" after I just put money in their pockets and he flipped it as if I did something wrong for asking for some sort of compensation. That is what this whole thread is about. I have heard approximately 7 other CS (VP) stories similar to this one since this thread was posted. So as someone who so eloquently put it in an earlier post to this thread, am I the "tool" or mabye someone else??
 
pip9ball said:
Its unfortunate that you had a bad experience with Diamond Billiards. People make mistakes and stuff happens. I agree that the customer service from Diamond could have gone smoother, however, there is no telling what type of conversation you had, except you and Chad.

To all the people who have had bad dealings with Diamond, Im sorry. However, I'd like to share a positive and great experience I had with Chad/Brian from Diamond. I called Chad and placed an order for a 9' Diamond Pro with Dymond woold rails and matching light. I was billed 50% of the table cost as a deposit and was told my table should be ready in 6 weeks. This was great news, however, it prompted me to get a move on finishing my attic :-) I received an e-mail about once every two weeks from Chad letting me know where my table stands in the production process. A month goes by and I get a call from Diamond informing me my table is done and is currently on the road. I was scheduled to be 1st on their list of stops to setup, however I didn't have carpet installed yet. Diamond contacted the contractors and arranged for me to be last on their list to allow me more time to lay down the carpet. Come to find out by the contractors that they had to backtract about 350 miles to isntall my table....but they didn't mind as Diamond agreed to pay them additional compensation for trouble. Diamond mentioned to me that there would be $100 added for each flight of stairs. I two flights of stairs which both had 90 degree bends and was only wide enough for 1 person to walk up. The two contractors and myself managed to maneuver that table up upstairs in about 2 hours. This was a lot of work! After the job was done, they told me that they really appreciated all the help getting the table up the stairs and that they would only charge me for 1 flight of stairs plus $350 to install the table. I gave each of them $300 and didn't bat an eye. None of my walls or hardwood floors were damaged by the slates and the table was perfect! Diamond has done good by me and I'll be a customer for life!

-Phillip
Phillip,

That is a great story and I am glad you had a good experience. I am sure there are others with good stories too and I am glad that you were taken care of.

Gary
 
ShelbyDriver said:
There are two sides to every story. You have yet to hear Diamond's side of the story.

As many of you that deal with customers on a daily basis know, companies have to put up with a lot of crap. The range of personalties that have to be dealt with is very, very broad. Sometimes customers are very grateful for their service and are easy to get along with. Other times, they complain about a piece of fuzz on the cloth and are willing to slander a company's name because of their own ego.

Most of the pool table mechanics are not directly employed by Diamond. They are treated as contractors. So my question to some of the others is why should Diamond provide a contractor with Diamond vehicles to do their own jobs? That's ludicrous.

Also, tables can ride from one point to another on any form of transportation. Just as long as they were taken care of and not damaged, I personally wouldn't care if my table was delivered to me on a buckboard wagon pulled by a team of mules. So why fault a mechanic for what he drives and for the trailer he pulls?

One last point: Why do some of you insist on your table being delivered by a squad of table mechanics? If a mechanic can deliver and set up a table by himself, then so be it. I'm sure if he needs a hand, he will arrange it. Otherwise volunteering to help him (when he doesn't need it) and then griping at him because you helped is a very lame argument.
I hardly think a piece of fuzz on my table was the situation we were dealing with here. As far as what he drives, I dont really care unless it affects my delivery. Shell out $5K for something that is supposed to be practically new and see what you think when it arrives sun faded gouged and filthy.
 
realkingcobra said:
IT was NOT my choice to tarp the table and transport it in a rain storm, I would have rather waited for it to pass...but NOT the customer! I did everything I could to look after this table, and I add that to the fact that the table NEVER got damaged in any way shape or form during or after the delivery! What ALL of you fail to understand, is that a Diamond 9ft ProAm can not be put in the back of just any ol delivery truck or trailer...it's to tall on the dolly to clear the ceiling height of the truck! What you ALL fail to understand, is that NO trucking company will transport a Diamond 9ft ProAm or ANY other table to a location on a dolly with wheels! What you ALL fail to understand, is the fact that Diamond did it's job of selling this table to the customer and charging him for the delivery and set up, and that the rest was on me to complete the job, so you fail to understand that Diamond had no further responsibility to this customer unless I fail to deliver the table! What you further FAIL to understand is that phone calls WERE made to the customer...numerous times! What you FAIL to understand is that the customer never once said, "Look Glen, I'm going to go to work everyday, until I get a call from YOU telling me that you're within a couple of hours from being at my house to deliver my table so that I don't loose any time off of work, okay?" My response to that would have been, I'll tell you what, I'll call you when I'm in town, and I'll stay in a hotel that night and we'll get started in the morning installing your table so that you don't waste any of your time! What you ALL fail to understand, is that this table weighs 1,300 lbs and is fully assembled! What you ALL fail to understand, is that the customer was compensated by me with all the extra work I performed on his table, including going to the store with him to get the hardware to hang his light and helping to do so, of which I had NO obligation to do so, as Diamond mechanic's are NOT required to hang lights, nor refurbish USED tables! AND, I didn't charge the customer for any extra work, not that I would have anyway! I've been delivering Diamonds tables to half the United States now for over 2 1/2 years, and never yet have I delivered a damaged table, damaged a customers house...or failed to be able to install a table....not even when it meant that I had to install a Diamond 9ft ProAm (1,300lbs) up 14 stairs straight up in a guys house here in Las Vegas and all the customer had to do was sit down and operate the come-along to pull the table up the stairs! What you ALL fail to understand, is that I got the job done, took ALL the responsibility for being late, compensated the customer accordingly and was done with it. THEN the customer took it upon himself to continue to complain further, and for what? It has no further bearing on the subject! So what else does this customer want for compensation?, my first born child?...WHAT????????? I DON'T CARE ANYMORE, THE JOB IS DONE!!!!!!!

Glen
*I did call to verify that you would be there the next day and left messages but no answer and no reply until after I waited all day (true or false)?

* Did I choose to have my table transported in a rain storm (come on really?) (true or false) Or did I say that if my talbe was delivered wet then you might as well not deliver it (true or false)

*Were phone calls made from the customer to you and vice versa numerous times (true or false)

*Was there extra work performed (buffing out sun faded and gouged rails) and did Glen help hang the light by holding up one end while I was on the table hooking it to my anchors that were there from the previous table (true or false)

*am I interested in having your first born child (true or false) LOL
 
AZ9BALLER said:
I hardly think a piece of fuzz on my table was the situation we were dealing with here. As far as what he drives, I dont really care unless it affects my delivery. Shell out $5K for something that is supposed to be practically new and see what you think when it arrives sun faded gouged and filthy.
Gary, your table was NOT sun faded, we peeled off the stickers on the side skirts because you didn't want them on the table, there was a slight color difference behind the sticker compared to the rest of the side skirts...that wasn't sun faded...your table never was in the sun...sorry. Your table and light was wrapped in a tarp, so was the light, then the tarp was stapled the bottom of the table as to secure it in place...before it ever left the warehouse...and it wasn't unwrapped until it reached your house.

Glen
 
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