Diamond Systems

Old Nine Baller said:
You agreed with me and didn't even know it. The geometry of the angles means nothing, the farther a ball travels the more it has time to open up. An extremely small, relatively meaningless difference in "geometry" at the 1st cushion can make a tremendous difference at the 3rd or 4th or 5th rail.

Nice try though.

ONB
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Well I've decided I don't like you so congrats on that.

Second, like I said- the angles are the same so if you hit it correctly the bigger size will not make a table play long since the ratio of the end rails to the long rails are the same but I don't think I will be the one to convince you of that.

It's simple geometry man... A line does not change its angle the longer it goes. It stays on the same angle. You are getting confused because you are not scaling everything up in your mind. You may be hitting farther up the rail on a 9foot table than a barbox but that is because the table is longer and wider.

Think of it in terms of fractions. 5/10 is the same as 1/2 even though it looks different.
 
zpele said:
Well I've decided I don't like you so congrats on that.Why make it personal? We simply disagree.

Second, like I said- the angles are the same so if you hit it correctly the bigger size will not make a table play long since the ratio of the end rails to the long rails are the same but I don't think I will be the one to convince you of that.

It's simple geometry man... A line does not change its angle the longer it goes. It stays on the same angle. You are getting confused because you are not scaling everything up in your mind. You may be hitting farther up the rail on a 9foot table than a barbox but that is because the table is longer and wider.

Think of it in terms of fractions. 5/10 is the same as 1/2 even though it looks different.
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You clearly know more than I do so I'll let it go.

ONB
 
zpele said:
Well I've decided I don't like you so congrats on that.

Second, like I said- the angles are the same so if you hit it correctly the bigger size will not make a table play long since the ratio of the end rails to the long rails are the same but I don't think I will be the one to convince you of that.

It's simple geometry man... A line does not change its angle the longer it goes. It stays on the same angle. You are getting confused because you are not scaling everything up in your mind. You may be hitting farther up the rail on a 9foot table than a barbox but that is because the table is longer and wider.

Think of it in terms of fractions. 5/10 is the same as 1/2 even though it looks different.
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Excellent reply! And also, 100% correct, it's ludicrous to think the further a ball travels the longer it will run! In fact, on a billiard table the ball tends to start rolling a little shorter after 4 or 5 cushions as the effect, (English) wears off.
 
The diamonds split the table up into equal segments...you hit from side pocket to middle diamond on short rail, you're going to scratch in the opposite side pocket regardless of how big the table is, asking as like I said, the diamonds are split accurately.
 
Pidge said:
The diamonds split the table up into equal segments...you hit from side pocket to middle diamond on short rail, you're going to scratch in the opposite side pocket regardless of how big the table is, asking as like I said, the diamonds are split accurately.
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Geometrically this is true, but...

Poolplaya9 said:
Cushion profile/material can make a difference, as can the type of cloth, whether the table is heated or not, and the type of balls used (particularly the weight difference). The size of the playing surface might make a tiny difference (more room for the spin of the cue ball to alter its path) but it would be very negligible compared to everything else I would think even if so.
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We all know different rail profiles or materials can make a difference. Think Gold Crown verses Diamond cushions and how balls rebound differently. Different size or weight balls can rebound differently even from the same cushion. As for the the type of cloth on the table, whether the table is heated or not, and the size of the bed of the table inside the rails, those things wouldn't matter at all if the cue ball always had nothing but natural forward roll. But the ball could have been hit with side spin on it (many or even most diamond systems require some running english), and even if the ball was hit with no side english it picks some up when it hits a cushion.
 
Kicking Academy

These are a few systems that DeadAim put together on AZ back in 2004. I have found them very useful.

I also have it in a .pdf if you or anyone else wants a copy. Just PM me with email address.

Don't know what happened to part 4, 5 and 7

Kicking Academy - Intro

Kicking Academy - Part 1

Kicking Academy - Part 2

Kicking Academy - Part 3

Kicking Academy - Part 6

Kicking Academy - Part 8

Kicking Academy - End

Oh, I found the online .pdf version of the entire series. Forgot I had it in my favorites.
http://www.deadstrokeuniversity.com/Kicking_Academy.pdf
 
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Poolplaya9 said:
Geometrically this is true, but...



We all know different rail profiles or materials can make a difference. Think Gold Crown verses Diamond cushions and how balls rebound differently. Different size or weight balls can rebound differently even from the same cushion. As for the the type of cloth on the table, whether the table is heated or not, and the size of the bed of the table inside the rails, those things wouldn't matter at all if the cue ball always had nothing but natural forward roll. But the ball could have been hit with side spin on it (many or even most diamond systems require some running english), and even if the ball was hit with no side english it picks some up when it hits a cushion.
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As far as the cloth goes, RE: tables playing long or short. Simonis Rapide 300 is the highest quality cloth they make, it's for 3 cushion tables. The percentage of wool to nylon and the threads per inch make the cloth what it is. When this cloth is first applied properly on a 3C table, it may play between 1 and 2 diamonds long for the first week!

If this cloth was put on a pool table you would see a tremendous difference in the speed and angles at first! As the cloth wore out it obviously would get a little slower and shorter.

I'm assuming most viewers know that humidity effects the way pool or 3C tables play. the more wet the tables are, the shorter and speed sensitive they are. Billiard tables are constructed with heating elements right under the slates and running along the perimeter of the cushions. The temp is usually set between, 94 and 97 F. This keeps the tables playing more consistently, no matter the weather conditions in or outside the room. Somewhat the same effect the, TV tables have in Major tournaments with the extra bright lights overhead.

The overall difference has always been the rubber used for 3 cushion as opposed to pool tables which effects the difference in angles between the two!
 
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Previously, I used bits and pieces, and just going by Feel until I purchased Tor's Zero X System.

I found that it is as about as straight forward as one can get. Altho, from what I have seen of Dave's videos, same thing as far as ease and not having to be a math engineer to decipher the instructions.

So many Systems out there as Bob posted. I believe that it is good to arm yourself with more than one source as you can be in different situations that require the use of
more than one.

If I find myself having to do a Bank or Kick, obviously I want the easiest to implement.
 
Seems to me the biggest factors in how a ball rolls off a cushion has to do whether the ball of rolling, sliding, spinning or some combination of the three and the contact time to the cushion itself. Any ball with start out sliding, with or without spin, and end up rolling. A fair percentage of the ball movement is reflected when the cushion pushes the ball back out. The difference between calculated angles and the real world can be measured in how much energy the rail soaks up and doesn't release.
 
klockdoc said:
These are a few systems that DeadAim put together on AZ back in 2004. I have found them very useful.

I also have it in a .pdf if you or anyone else wants a copy. Just PM me with email address.

Don't know what happened to part 4, 5 and 7

Kicking Academy - Intro

Kicking Academy - Part 1

Kicking Academy - Part 2

Kicking Academy - Part 3

Kicking Academy - Part 6

Kicking Academy - Part 8

Kicking Academy - End

Oh, I found the online .pdf version of the entire series. Forgot I had it in my favorites.
http://www.deadstrokeuniversity.com/Kicking_Academy.pdf
Click to expand...

ive only perused the replies
the deadstroke pdf of deadaims work is a GREAT did i say YOU GOTTA HAVE IT AS A REFERENCE pdf
it has enough to more than get you by
if there are certain situations ou are still not sure about pm me to discuss
 
A lot of good information. I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.

I did download Tor's kicking systems about a year ago and his information has helped me immensely. I also have Dead Aim's Kicking Academy and have purchased DVD's from Jimmy Reid and Grady. Dr Dave's website is extremely informative and very helpful. I would like to get a hold of Walt Harris's Billiard Atlas but it appears that the price is a little out of reach. If anyone knows of a set that is within reason I would be interested.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the responses.
 
Old Nine Baller said:
Disagree all you want, that doesn't change anything. The farther a ball travels the more time it has to "open up". It's very simple really. A 2' x 4' table would play much shorter then a 6' x 12' table with the same rails. I've played on a 4 1/2' x 9' Billiard table and I don't make a habit of writing things I don't know anything about.

ONB
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My first reaction to this is that it's not the table size that matters so much as how the CB impacts the rail. A sliding CB vs a rolling CB will react very differently. Sliding will be a truer angle, rolling will generally open up. On a larger table, it may end up rolling more often than sliding. This is just an observation, I'm not a table mechanic or physics PhD ;) But I'd be interested in the "whys" of this phenomenon.

[edit] yeah I should read the whole thread before posting whats already been said :)
 
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