Sure wish Ernesto could revamp those GC's on the tournament side
at Hard Times... put some proper Simonis on them.. that Andy cloth
is beat to sh*t.
Diamond versus Brunswick
- Thread starter Chalk & Awe
- Start date
Sure wish Ernesto could revamp those GC's on the tournament side
at Hard Times... put some proper Simonis on them.. that Andy cloth
is beat to sh*t.
We tried Andy for a few years in our room before switching back to Simonis. I loved the speed (faster than 860), but the stains were just too hard/impossible to remove and I tried everything, so the cloth gets nasty looking after a very short period of time. I'm sure Ernesto would gladly do the tables, if/when they ever find out whether their lease will be renewed.
Hmmmm, I hear these stories about people getting dirty from the GC metals and now tearing peoples clothes?? People complain about getting dings in their expensive cues, I find all of this amazing! Who wears light colors to go play pool, uhh hello chalk is super bright blue, so if you take that gamble and lose, deep inside you knew better, come on admit it.....
As for the dinged up cues, as far as I know Gold Crowns and all 1200+ lbs of them dont move. Again, this is on the user, if you cant handle an expensive cue with out banging it on/ into a non moving object, thats on you and you knew better
Trent from Toledo
P.s. If the clear finish wears off on your car: you have it fixed right?? All the castings have a finish coat and the rail trims are not the same as the casting finish. Early gc 1 and 2 rail trims it was called a Bright anodization and is kinda like a clear coat and the rest all anodized in different colors. when this wears off from pool room use on either the castings or the trims, they need to be recoated with something to protect the metal and the user. General maintenance is what this would fall under. Just my $0.02
I have them all powdercoated and it is awesome.
not to mention the table, when put together right has no sharp edges.
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He won't when the owner no longer wants to spend money on a place he is losing soon.
I heard that table 6 plays pretty sporty even with old cloth.
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! Nice one!
Hmmmm, I hear these stories about people getting dirty from the GC metals and now tearing peoples clothes?? People complain about getting dings in their expensive cues, I find all of this amazing! Who wears light colors to go play pool, uhh hello chalk is super bright blue, so if you take that gamble and lose, deep inside you knew better, come on admit it.....
As for the dinged up cues, as far as I know Gold Crowns and all 1200+ lbs of them dont move. Again, this is on the user, if you cant handle an expensive cue with out banging it on/ into a non moving object, thats on you and you knew better
Trent from Toledo
P.s. If the clear finish wears off on your car: you have it fixed right?? All the castings have a finish coat and the rail trims are not the same as the casting finish. Early gc 1 and 2 rail trims it was called a Bright anodization and is kinda like a clear coat and the rest all anodized in different colors. when this wears off from pool room use on either the castings or the trims, they need to be recoated with something to protect the metal and the user. General maintenance is what this would fall under. Just my $0.02
I have them all powdercoated and it is awesome.
not to mention the table, when put together right has no sharp edges.
I'm surprised Trent. Surely you must be aware that the edges of the metal rail trim by the pockets can catch on your clothing, particularly if the table has not been set up perfectly. I'm sure I'm not the only guy this has happened too.
Hmmmm, I hear these stories about people getting dirty from the GC metals and now tearing peoples clothes?? People complain about getting dings in their expensive cues, I find all of this amazing! Who wears light colors to go play pool, uhh hello chalk is super bright blue, so if you take that gamble and lose, deep inside you knew better, come on admit it.....
As for the dinged up cues, as far as I know Gold Crowns and all 1200+ lbs of them dont move. Again, this is on the user, if you cant handle an expensive cue with out banging it on/ into a non moving object, thats on you and you knew better
Trent from Toledo
P.s. If the clear finish wears off on your car: you have it fixed right?? All the castings have a finish coat and the rail trims are not the same as the casting finish. Early gc 1 and 2 rail trims it was called a Bright anodization and is kinda like a clear coat and the rest all anodized in different colors. when this wears off from pool room use on either the castings or the trims, they need to be recoated with something to protect the metal and the user. General maintenance is what this would fall under. Just my $0.02
I have them all powdercoated and it is awesome.
not to mention the table, when put together right has no sharp edges.
Powdercoat, only way to go unless you get them chromed.
Getting the irons as flush as possible too , of course. Gotta know how to shim 'em.
If you're scared of dinging your cues, I make cored paper micarta cues.
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I've worked as a sales consultant for Brunswick, played for a living for a pretty good portion of my life, and worked as a table mechanic, I feel like I have a fairly good understanding of both tables. As far as where/how they are made: the Brunswick GCV does have the woodworking done in Asia, the slate is from Italy or South America (as are basically all slates for every company) unless something drastic has changed in the last couple of years, and comes in small boxes to be assembled on-site. The diamond is manufactured in the U.S. as a premanufactured cabinet (one-piece), some of the basic advantages and disadvantages are that the Diamond is fairly idiot proof as far as levelling, but more difficult to get parts, it's not unusual for some of the leg veneers to pop off when flipping the Diamond over if moving in a table dolly (I mean for the average people who DIY), and the fact that it comes as a single cabinet makes replacement if anything goes wrong or bad a little more of a pain. The GC is more labor intensive to set up or move, as it comes in a ton of boxes, and is a little more difficult to level, even with the levelling system. As stated before, the new blue label diamonds are light years better than the red labels, but for my money the Brunswick Super Speed rails are the best that have ever been made, but that's a personal opinion, I think they are more consistent, but that's just me. Both tables have extremely durable top rails, should last forever, and are warrantied (unless diamond has changed fairly recently, while I've been to Diamond it's been years, my personal experience with Brunswick is much more involved) for life, I know the GC was the only table that was warrantied even if put in pool halls, this might not be the case anymore, I don't know. If you go the Diamond route, I (and basically every serious player I've ever met lol) would recommend changing the balls out immediately. The Cyclops balls are nothing short of terrible, between them and going to the super cheap plastic rack diamond has taken cost cutting to the extreme with the ancillary items. I still love the Centennial balls, but they're basically the same as the Super Pro line, and yes, aramith makes both. Just don't get a great table and crappy balls, it's similar to buying a Ferrari and using retread tires. As for price, don't let the "list" prices fool you, although the GC is listed at 10k that's not what you'll actually pay, a little research will show the range they actually sell for, I would tell you but I'm not sure, I know when I was selling them it was usually about 25-30% below the MSRP depending on where you bought it from. For playability, the two biggest differences have always been the rail and the pocket shelf, while diamond has closed the gap on the rails with the blue labels I still prefer the GC myself, but the pocket shelves on the diamonds are still much deeper, which means gravity on bobbled balls cant take effect, hence the diamonds play tighter. I personally think a stock GC has pockets that play too big, and for mw even the "tournament cut" pockets on the GC are a little too loose (in fairness I don't think the pro-cut diamonds were tight enough either). This can be remedied with rail extensions or shims, but it is an extra expense if you want tighter pockets. Another check mark for the diamond is that most major events are now played on diamonds, such as Derby, the Open, etc (Brunswick doesn't focus much on advertising or publicity in the U.S. anymore, so Diamond has smartly snapped up a lot of those opportunities). Basically they are both great tables, I haven't played much on the Gabriels, but I've heard they are the only other table that I've heard compares to the two you mentioned, I don't think you can go wrong with either, it's honestly more of a preference between the two. I would recommend looking into why you want it. If it's for furniture the GC has more options, if you're an extremely serious player and plan on going to Derby or the Open the Diamond would likely be a better choice. I'm sure I've forgotten several things, but this is stupid long as it is lol. Hope this book helps!
Very insightful post - thanks. You mention the Gabriels tables and I believe we have one of only a handfull of pool rooms in the US that has Gabriel's Signature Pro tables. They are very comparable to Diamond tables, although I would claim even better, due to the steel frames. At the time I bought them nearly 20 years ago, there was a US distributor in FLA and I was lucky enough to meet him and Thierry Gabriels (the owner) at the SBE and fell in love with the tables, and placed a special order for them to replace our Connelly Ultimate tables, which had some issues as a commercial table. We've been very happy with our Gabriel's tables ever since. They have just never been marketed well in the US, as the US distributor did not last long, and then Diamond took over as the Gabriel's distributor which made absolutely no sense, and I don't even think they have a US distributor any more. To order tables directly from the Gabriels / Loontjens is a nightmare between the all the freight costs, import costs and import taxes, etc, as I found out in 2016 when I acquired a 10-foot Gabriel's table. I don't think you'll be seeing anymore over here anytime soon.
There’s a place in the north metro, Minnesota. They have a couple dozen Gabriels. Very good tables, but iirc the side pockets are unusually large.
Omg...I read it all, but you gotta hit the Enter button every so often, please?!?!
Hippo’s in Utica NY have Gabriels....don’t know which model.
They play great...but a little generous.
For some reason the Gabriel's from the factory came with very thick pocket facings but still 5-inch pockets. We've since had all our subrails lengthened and new cushions installed, to tighten the pocket specs, so they now play great with the proper 1/8" pocket facings.
Our Gabriel's came straight from the factory with 1/4" neoprene facings. On two of the tables we requested tighter pocket specs on, they used 3/8" thick neoprene facings, by gluing two 3/16" facings together - totally unacceptable.Many mechanics ( and Diamond) Use 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene
Trent from Toledo
This is the best pocket I ever knocked a ball into....
And that is including any snooker pocket.
I don’t miss having to get my thumb under my cue....or using an open bridge...
...not to mention avoiding name plates, score counters....even ashtray corner pieces.
And that is including any snooker pocket.
I don’t miss having to get my thumb under my cue....or using an open bridge...
...not to mention avoiding name plates, score counters....even ashtray corner pieces.
Hmm ... did you look at the pictures Brunswick themselves use for advertising their brand new GC VI? One should assume that Brunswick knows how to set up their own tables - more so in an ad for an extremely expensive table? I have added some arrows so you can see what I mean ...
There are situations - as all of us know - where you have to lean far into the table and normally you worry about making the ball, getting position and so on. You should not have to worry that your pants get caught on sharp metal edges, IMHO. In the above picture you can clearly see that chances are great that they will tear sooner or later with that kind of assembly - by Brunswick.
I don't really think that a table for 10 grand MSRP should need extra work on metal parts like anodizing etc. - either. Now, I don't know if the discoloring of clothing still happens with the GC VI. It did happen with the old ones, though. While we normally don't wear white pants for playing pool, white t-shirts are quite common. The difference between chalk residue and metal staining used to be that the chalk marks were no problems with a decent washing machine. This is not my main complaint, though. However, torn clothes should be a thing of a distant past.
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Chalk & Awe
Registered
Hi, what were your reasons for buying a Gabriel over the other manufacturers?
Thank you,
C&A :smile:
Never had my pants or shirt ever get caught on any pool table for that matter. Maybe you LOST YOUR SHIRT AND PANTS GAMBLING????
Trent