Diamonds tables....

Somehow they've taken a straight cut and made it play more like a snooker pocket. I don't mind "tight pockets" at all, but they've changed what kind of shots actually go. They've also decided to put rails on a table that come up about 30% shorter than the norm.

What does that mean..."straight cut and made it play more like a snooker pocket"?
 
All -

I happened to go back to my hometown and went to the latest new pool room. I think it has been there about a year or so.

It was a Saturday afternoon and I was the only one there for over an hour and I left. I knew the owner and we were able to have a great discussion about the place and his choices.

I was banging balls around on a really a pretty Diamond table. It was a "Diamond" room with almost all of the tables are Diamond and two Connelly tables. He made the comment that he thought that on the "bar tables" they play so much tougher than the typical Valley tables he thought it hurt business....

Ok, I was hooked, I asked him to explain it.

We both agreed that the money, if any, is made by leagues. (I have said that for years.) He continued that the league players really preferred to play on Valleys, at least in that area. Now these aren't beat up tables, he bought all brand new Diamond 7, 8 and 9 foot tables. He said that these players get frustrated that they don't "accept" balls like a Valley table. The result, league players didn't want to play there on Diamond tables.:eek:

He added the table I was playing on, he would like to sell to get another Connelly 9 foot table. He said they play much better, the rails are like night and day, and the "real" pool players that play during the day always take the Connelly tables first. WOW:eek:.

Then he went to tell me the difference in price of the Connelly and the Diamond tables...:eek:. He did mention that the Diamond folks were awesome to work with, and had an awesome financing plan....while nice, what you are really buying the table or the financing plans?

What does all this mean? Nothing, just interesting for discussion.

Best of rolls,

Ken


People play pool for all kinds of reasons. And some guys, who are not really very good and/or never practice/compete just want to see balls go in the pockets. IOW, for a lot of folks pool is stress reliever, a thing to do while swilling beers, or out on a date. If your local populace is that type of a crowd I think you've got to accommodate them and Valleys would be the ticket.

But, if you've got serious players around, guys who love to compete, practice, gamble, (improve), etc. then I think it's not contest and Diamonds are the way to go.

Lou Figueroa
 
What does that mean..."straight cut and made it play more like a snooker pocket"?



I'm sorry. I was referring to the fact, that with very little exception, you can't touch a rail and still pocket a ball. If you hit the facing your fine, but if you touch the rail at all first the ball is going to hang up. It's a bit of s weird comparison, but snooker tables play the same way. With the exception of the facing part.
 
Agree

This is the "league player mentality". They are not interested in improving, they're out for a social night drinking. They want it to be easy to pocket balls. This is a good example why I feel the APA is not good for the sport of billiards. JMHO

Sherm

I have to agree with this.I quit playing Bar leagues for that reason.On the subject of 7 ft. Diamonds vs Valley tables, after watching Ralf Souquet play a few racks on a 7ft. Diamond at Valey Forge he said it was the only time he ever played on a 7 ft. Table that played like a 9 footer. He loved it.That tells me if you want easy play on a Valley, if you want real play then go with the Diamond.
 
While I am a big GC table fan and the way they play, I would take a Diamond bar table over a Valley anyday. Diamond should easily be able to make the pockets more generous for the bangers if they see a demand for it anyways.

Now Connelly vs Diamond I can't really comment on, as I have not really played on Connelly tables.

I think the Diamond would be a much much better table for most pool rooms if the shelf was not quite as deep, but that is my opinion.
 
I haven't played on a Diamond table in years so I don't really have an accurate opinion on how they play. However, I have been following all the discussions on pocket dimensions, and I will say that I have not read a good explanation of why a deep shelf is needed.

A tighter pocket with a shorter shelf seems to make sense to me. I think Nathan (Runout Media) had the best explanation I've seen so far here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4203044&postcount=1
 
I Love The 8-9 Footers But In My Opinion The Rails ARe Too "Strong" For A 7. I Overheard Strickland At Bca Nationals Saying The Same Thing In The Juniors Instructional Room. He Said That The Rails Promoted Too Much Of A Poke Stroke On TheDiamOnd BaR tables.

I can sort of agree with this. When you first play on a diamond bb they seem so fast that you end up feeling like you have to hit every shot with a sort of half stroke, or poking it. After you adjust a bit you can hit things firmer but I definitely know what he is referring to. I still find myself slow rolling a lot more shots on the diamond as opposed to a valley, but on the other hand the diamonds actually roll true so you can get away with it.

I just cant believe the opening post here though. People pick the conelleys first!!!?? I would pick them first too, if I was trying to find some firewood.
 
I just cant believe the opening post here though. People pick the conelleys first!!!?? I would pick them first too, if I was trying to find some firewood.

Don't be so quick to knock Connelly Pool Tables. I love the Diamonds and own one myself, but Connelly builds the "Ultimate" which is a fine table! It comes with 2" slate, wide rails for bridging off of and a very solid frame construction. I played a little on a friends "Ultimate" and was favorably impressed! Of course the 2" slate makes a huge difference. If the room had Connelly "Ultimates" I can understand _some_ customers prefering them. Almost all table manufacturers build some entry level tables which are junk. Brunswick's Bristol is a good example. Not sure if Diamond markets one or not, but most do.

Sherm
 
I'm sorry. I was referring to the fact, that with very little exception, you can't touch a rail and still pocket a ball. If you hit the facing your fine, but if you touch the rail at all first the ball is going to hang up. It's a bit of s weird comparison, but snooker tables play the same way. With the exception of the facing part.

That changed quite a bit with the blue label designed rails, as they are less sensitive when a ball grazes off them on the way to a corner pocket, but even still, it all depends on what angle and speed you're talking about.
 
RealKing why are the 10ft Diamonds not advertised on the Diamond website? Are they not being made anymore or is it a special order item?
 
RealKing why are the 10ft Diamonds not advertised on the Diamond website? Are they not being made anymore or is it a special order item?

Because they're more of a custom order kind of table, they'll more than likely list it sooner or later on their website. The balls are to new to list as well, but once again...in time. I do know Diamond is very sold on them, so everyone can expect to see much more of them in the tournaments with Diamond tables.

Glen
 
While I am a big GC table fan and the way they play, I would take a Diamond bar table over a Valley anyday. Diamond should easily be able to make the pockets more generous for the bangers if they see a demand for it anyways.

Now Connelly vs Diamond I can't really comment on, as I have not really played on Connelly tables.

I think the Diamond would be a much much better table for most pool rooms if the shelf was not quite as deep, but that is my opinion.

I haven't played on a Diamond table in years so I don't really have an accurate opinion on how they play. However, I have been following all the discussions on pocket dimensions, and I will say that I have not read a good explanation of why a deep shelf is needed.

A tighter pocket with a shorter shelf seems to make sense to me. I think Nathan (Runout Media) had the best explanation I've seen so far here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4203044&postcount=1

Check out my table in the TDF thread.

Not sure if it is a mistake from Diamond but my table's shelf is very shallow.

I have been told that I might own the only 3pc slate 8ft Pro-Am ever built. Not sure if that has something to do with it...
 
Check out my table in the TDF thread.

Not sure if it is a mistake from Diamond but my table's shelf is very shallow.

I have been told that I might own the only 3pc slate 8ft Pro-Am ever built. Not sure if that has something to do with it...

Freeze a ball as far back in the corner pocket as it will go, up against the pocket facing. Then look down the long rail and see how much of the ball is in/out of the pocket based on the nose of the cushion. If it's about 60/40% in/out then it's the same slate shelf as the 9ft's, but I can't remember what it is on the 8ft's as you're right, there are very few of them sold. But the slate shelf shouldn't be any different between the 3 piece vs the one piece slate.

Glen
 
This is the "league player mentality". They are not interested in improving, they're out for a social night drinking. They want it to be easy to pocket balls. This is a good example why I feel the APA is not good for the sport of billiards. JMHO

Sherm

This isn't the case around here with the APA players. We love Diamond tables and our new pool hall has a tournament room with at least 8 of them. Since our tournaments (except for Vegas) are played on Diamond tables, we love them.
 
I haven't played on a Diamond table in years so I don't really have an accurate opinion on how they play. However, I have been following all the discussions on pocket dimensions, and I will say that I have not read a good explanation of why a deep shelf is needed.

A tighter pocket with a shorter shelf seems to make sense to me. I think Nathan (Runout Media) had the best explanation I've seen so far here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4203044&postcount=1
I have 4 1/2 Inch pockets with a 1 inch shelf on my home table. When I played on a Gold Crown with 4 1/2 pockets and a 2 inch shelf I was shocked when I hit the side fading and it rejected balls that would have easily gone in on my table.
 
Freeze a ball as far back in the corner pocket as it will go, up against the pocket facing. Then look down the long rail and see how much of the ball is in/out of the pocket based on the nose of the cushion. If it's about 60/40% in/out then it's the same slate shelf as the 9ft's, but I can't remember what it is on the 8ft's as you're right, there are very few of them sold. But the slate shelf shouldn't be any different between the 3 piece vs the one piece slate.

Glen

Which side of the pocket? Head rail side or long rail side?

If its on head rail side the ball shows all the way out of the pocket with some room between it and the side rail. If it is against the long side cushion it shows 40% in, 60% out.
 
Which side of the pocket? Head rail side or long rail side?

If its on head rail side the ball shows all the way out of the pocket with some room between it and the side rail. If it is against the long side cushion it shows 40% in, 60% out.

Ok, then that's the same pocket shelf used on the 7ft's as well, so it's a little short compared to the 9ft pocket shelf.
 
I talked to a former pool room owner. He said he thinks Diamond is now only making the "pro pocket" on all their tables. Formerly they made a looser pocket that I don't know the name for, plus a tighter pocket which they called the pro pocket.

He said he thinks this is a mistake on Diamond's part, because of pool rooms. He said if he were outfitting a pool room today he would get all Diamond 9-footers but only two would have the pro pockets, and then he would get two DIamond barboxes and the rest would be Valleys. The good player would want the tighter pockets but good players are always in the minority.

I might add from my personal shopping experience that if you like Valleys and don't like Diamonds in a 7-footer, then you should buy a Brunswick Authentic for your home table. They play very much like Valleys, with wide, very accepting pockets with short shelfs. The Brunswick salesman actually told me they do this on purpose because most buyers of home tables are outfitting rec rooms for the "kids to play around on." They are pleasant to play on but I do think the pockets are too loose.

My favorite is the non-pro-pocket Diamonds, but I've only played on 9-footers. I am going to speak with Diamond tomorrow. I'll ask them about the pocket options on current tables.

Mike
 
A pool hall in St. Louis got all Diamonds and our big league here, Missouri 8 ball, quit having the tournament there because all the teams complained. Every night/week they play on vallys and then have to play the big tourney on diamonds. He had to give them all back.

My favorite table to play 8/9/10 on is a 7 ft diamond at Hillsboro. I usually only play one pocket and I play bad, really bad, and much more of a mover than shooter so I don't really care if I play on a GC or a Diamond. We only have a couple Diamonds anywhere near St. Louis so most players don't want to play on them.

I know the room you are talking about, the Diamond bar tables there were like 1st generation or something like that. I have played on a lot of bar tables and these were the ones with the real springy rubber, Diamond has made a lot of changes and the newer tables play so much better.
I would think if players in St. Louis or anywhere else played on the newer style Diamonds, they would love them. All of the bar tables in the St. Louis area are Valleys with bucket pockets. The tables Gene had behaved like there were superballs bouncing off of the rails. St. Louis needs some Diamond tables .
 
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