Diary of an antique Brunswick

[Cuephoric]

The

Sorry I just looked through some of your postings and pics. I am very surprised or should I say NOT surprised some of the experts in here didn't mention this already. Also your Diamonds s\b Ebony. I have worked on over a dozen of these Briggs tables and you can ask The Billiard Restoration Compnay in KS to verify as they are experts as well.

Now I am off to make a GC V table with 3 inch pockets and no extra facings

I'm guessing you mean the guys in Clay Center?
Real nice guy, has alot of cool tables laying around waiting to be refinished. Ken Hash is a good friend of his I believe.
They both referred me to each other anyway in the past.....
785.632.5909
http://www.billiardrestoration.com/Antique-Pool-Tables/oliver-briggs.htm
http://www.oldpooltables.com/catalog.asp?group=g2





Whether it's a Newport or a Briggs, or a BigKahuna,(which is what I'm now calling it after all of your work) you're turning this project into a great job that seems like it's well worth the time and energy you've put into it!:thumbup:

 

[Bigkahuna]

Brunswick, Briggs, Bigkahuna???

[/QUOTE]Whether it's a Newport or a Briggs, or a BigKahuna,(which is what I'm now calling it after all of your work) you're turning this project into a great job that seems like it's well worth the time and energy you've put into it!:thumbup:[/QUOTE]

Thanks Cuephoric I guess i was a bit taken back by someone saying it is not a Brunswick. Apparently back in the day they used to swap out the nameplates. Brunswick would look like they had the market share or someone would call the Brunswick dealer to do re-felting. I have been told by another source that it is not a Brunswick and pointed to several things that made him think so. I hope it does not make the table any less valuable and even if it did it is a great table.

OTLB can you tell me what about this table is different from a Brunswick? I do not doubt you I just would like to know for my own info.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Slate leveling

The slates were a real hastle. This part took about 12 hours of chasing the bubble around. I started with just what I could remember about RKC?s directions for ?Leveling a 3 Piece Slate. After working at this for several hours I got frustrated and pulled out all the shims. This was like make a change here and get that right then what you had perfect is now off fix that and now something else is way off. I think if I had not tried this first I would not have found the relevence in some of the directions. I mean for me I tend to skim things when reading so I pay attention to what I feel is relevant, (probably my own learning disability).

I then sat down with a cup of coffee and went over the directions again. Looking back it is real important to keep checking the level using the four foot with machinist level on top and getting the average by setting the carpenter level on the razor blades. Without this you will be chasing potential highs and lows in the slate with out really identifying where they are and how it is affecting the level.

After I had the slates level end to end then side to side using the razor blades it was much easier to find other areas where there were problems. I would use just the machinist level to identify an area and then the straight edge with a flash light on the other side looking for light under the straight edge to confirm The slates were sway back just a bit which was easily correctable with the shims. Then one of the slates was off just a bit but I could not shim under it as it was probably about 6-8 inches from the shim. I was afraid to use Glen?s bottle jack trick in this location because I already had put a lot of tension on the slate shimming the slate up and didn?t want to then put more tension the other way down with so little distance between the two areas.

After I had the slates done I used super glue to bond them the entire length. I then scraped the excess super glue off and applied bondo. Now, on these slates I was able to indentify that there had been some sanding done around the seem areas which took some off the slate. On one seam this was just an inch or two on either side. On the other seam the, (one with the slight imperfection), I probably put down a 7 inch wide coat using a drywall knife. I then sanded this using a large machined flat surface as sanding block and taking care to not get into the slate area. I would finish the sanding with 180 grit paper on a rubber sanding block using cross cuts when I was real close to feather out the edges. When I was done this was so thin it was really opaque. You might be able to see in the photo where the bondo is a hair thicker in the worst area that needed to be fared out. After all this I could roll a ball every which way at very slow speeds and it not did roll off anywhere.

I had a lot of little things to do before putting on the cloth. On the pocket shelves I routered a little radius on the edge and did a little sanding to help prevent the cloth from tearing on a sharp edge. On the edges of the slate which is the mating surface for the rails I had to get off a bit of the contact adhesive used for reattaching some of the slate liners. One of the slate liners was sticking out from the slate just a bit so I shaved this with a planer. Scraped down the entire table to ensure I did not have and JB Weld or bondo remnants. Cleaned everything up and now ready for the cloth.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Finishing up

Assembling a table like this is pretty straight forward and is really the easy part. The rails I had already covered and all I had to do was install the bed cloth, bolt on the rails and pockets.

I did finish off the pockets in a way I have not seen yet and I want to thank OTLB for this idea. The reason I did this was that the corners of this table push the leather pocket nets out away from the table. This makes a chute or slide when the balls are dropping in. The problem is that when the balls are going down the chute there is a rivet in the leather pocket they are hitting half way down. So, I made up some leather pieces and attached them to the slate liner.

I was doing this on a Saturday and the first step was to find a piece of leather. I went to a couple of craft stores and they had pieces that were about 10x10? at 8 bucks a piece. I would have probably needed three of these. So, thinking this was too much to spend I went to goodwill and bought this beauty.

Now I had all the leather I needed and this was only $9.99. I cut out some chunks and then fashioned them into something that looks like a jockstrap. Once stapled on these jockstraps cover the nails and staples pretty well an keep my balls from getting nicked on the rivets. I then nailed on the leather using aluminum ring shank nails that I cut down with dykes.

The assembly of the table was simple to bolt the rails and pockets on and only took about an hour. I did have to take care to make sure the rails were in the correct position as they are numbered as well as the pockets and some of the numbers were hard to see since the rail refinish.

I am very happy with how everything turned out at this point. The cloth I am still waiting to here from the manufacturer on that so I will reserve comment on that for a later time.:speechless:

I will be posting in the future some photos, reflections, comments and critiques on some of the work done. I will also be thanking many of the people who have been supportive and offered advice here in this forum.

Oh, I have also figured out how put photos right into the post to make all of this easier to read. So, I have edited each post that had photos. Seems like a simple thing once you know how but I never would have figured it out on my own.:slap:

 

[mechanic/player]

Looks good!

 

[scruffy1]

Looks good! and HOW did we attach this piece of material?:smile:
And how and where are we gonna attach those tabs?:smile:

I can wait for the next blog!!

 

[Bigkahuna]

Pocket Tabs

Looks good! and HOW did we attach this piece of material?:smile:
And how and where are we gonna attach those tabs?:smile:

I can wait for the next blog!!

Ok, the tabs or as I called them jock straps were attached to the slate liners using 3/8" staples. I could not attach them to the pocket shelves as those were made from MDF which won't take nails or staples without the possibility of seperating. I certainly would not want to have that happen anywhere near the slate surface. Really, if the pocket shelf was slate as with newer tables you wouldn't staple there anyway.

When I cut this soft thin leather from the coat I used the leather from the hem of the coat at the bottom so I already had a nice crease. I stapled this on and then after flipped up the tabs and trimmed and nailed on the pockets and then bolted on the pocket.

Originally I was going to use a thicker leather and wet it to put a crease in it for the fold. From there, my plan was to form it to shape over a piece of band iron with a similar radius as the pocket liner I was attaching it to letting it dry in that shape. I actually like the softer leather as I think I may have had a problem with the thicker stuff wanting to spring out. This leather lays down into the pocket real nice.

I have seen a couple of black scuff marks on the balls. I am pretty sure this is coming from the leather that wraps around the pocket irons and is happening on shots hit hard where the ball hits there. The leather netting is also pretty stiff and feels like sandpaper when I stick my hand in there. Is there something I should treat the leather with? Seems like i have seen that info in here somewhere.

 

[Dartman]

... The cloth I am still waiting to here from the manufacturer on that so I will reserve comment on that for a later time ...

I spoke with Curt Cook, the national sales manager for Armand, again this morning concerning your issue which
I previously discussed with him last week.

He stated he called you last week and left a message - the same day I told you to expect to be contacted from him.

His office number is 877-258-1963 - Ext# 2
I suggest you contact him during business hours to resolve the issue.

 

[Bigkahuna]

I spoke with Curt Cook, the national sales manager for Armand, again this morning concerning your issue which
I previously discussed with him last week.

He stated he called you last week and left a message - the same day I told you to expect to be contacted from him.

His office number is 877-258-1963 - Ext# 2
I suggest you contact him during business hours to resolve the issue.

Thank you Rick

 

[Bigkahuna]

Thank You


I have some people to thank for the advice and support given here in this forum. I am just going to do this chronologically.

First I would like to thank AZB for just being here. I had been kind of just looking at this site for a while but really joined due to this project.

Tom334 This guy did a similar project and took the effort to put quite a bit of it online. I think that was the inspiration for me to put a fairly detailed account of this project on here so others may benefit from that.

Scruffy1 This guy invited me to call him and on a rainy day sat on the phone with me for probably an hour. Really answered a host of questions I had about repairs this table needed that nobody else seemed interested in answering.. This guy is very knowledgeable about tables and really knows the antiques. A big thank you to you sir!

RKC Always a thank you to you. You really do care about your work and always strive to do the best possible job that can be done and post up to prove it. I really hope you do make some headway into improving your industry. When I was a master automotive tech I thought mechanics should be licensed. You license plumbers and electricians but just anyone can work on the car you put your kids into and drive down the road at 70 MPH. We have voluntary certification so at least consumers have that choice but most are unaware that is out there. Really, you can find a mechanic to replace an alternator but few could take apart, diagnose and fix one and many can?t isolate an alternator from a wiring problem. I used to teach night classes but few were interested in attending, really, there are people who care about workmanship and those that don?t.

n10spool Craig thank you for the comments and your encouragement and good luck with those antiques you own. You seem like you really care about the work you do. Perhaps, you can start working on those antiques bit by bit when you?re close to retirement they could be worth a mint!

Cuephoric Thank you for encouragement and help. Yes, I was a bit frustrated when leveling those slates but was doing this to a level of accuracy, (I think), that was probably not necessary to have the ball roll straight When you aren?t doing it all the time the leveling really can be a bugger. I did feel like if I was doing another table right after I could do it in a third of the time.

OTLB You are good in my book we spoke one day and you are certainly knowledgeable and have a lot of experience. I like the pocket tabs you suggested to hide the staples and nails
You kind of stepped into this forum stating you could do things no others can. But then you wouldn?t provide proof to back up some of your claims. I started a thread to really address the lack and quality of communication here which got a lot of interest. Sorry I used your profile name to start that thread.. We are all here just reading words and it may take some effort to illustrate what you can do but I think most people here would be interested in having a better understanding what some of these ideas are. This is a forum and things here are up for discussion and perhaps argument or disagreement.

Dartman Poolfelt.com a regular poster here and always willing to offer advice. I bought most of the supplies I used for this project from Poolfelt.com and they seem to run a pretty tight ship over there. Always responsive if there is an issue and good customer service which is tough to come by these days.

Everyone else Thank you for some of the nice comments I got and thank you for just viewing. There were times when I felt perhaps I shouldn?t bother to update this thread. The nice comments and the views increasing at least made me feel like someone was benefitting from this info.

In my next post I will have some reflections about doing this work and some comments and criticisms about how the table came out.

 

[Dartman]

... There were times when I felt perhaps I shouldn?t bother to update this thread. The nice comments and the views increasing at least made me feel like someone was benefitting from this info. ...

The thread was good and many experienced folks got involved in helping the project along.
That's one of the plus factors of the Mechanics area - compared to some of the other forum areas where a lot
of what you get are juvenile opinions from idiots with agendas. Of course some of them drop in here at times to prove it.

You put a lot of work into the table and it looks excellent.
Now if you and Curt can hook up we may just get the cloth issue resolved.

 

[md5key]

Fantastic thread - thank you for sharing this information. Have you thought about posting this on another site as well? The reason I say that is I've seen threads like this on other sites get lost due to the site's database getting corrupted.. It would be a shame to lose this information!

 

[scruffy1]

Thank You Bigkahuna!

It has been a very enjoyable read. We personally get this same satisfaction from bringing something back to its original condition
on a regular basis. It was nice to see you enjoy it also.

It is very different helping someone who has the desire to do it themselves for the pleasure and experience versus someone who wants
to save fifty dollars. Restoring antiques opens up a whole new field
with the woodworking and finishing aspect, which both can take
considerable time and money. A great diy project with a little help from
your friends at AZ.

 

[Dartman]

Big K
Just got off the phone with Curt and he is sending a fresh cloth directly to you.
It should ship on Mon or Tue so if you let me know when it's delivered I'd appreciate it.

I'd suggest when you lay out the new bedcloth to do the roll test before installing all the rails.
Just loose-bolt the 2 end rails.

 

[Dartman]

In my next post I will have some reflections about doing this work and some comments and criticisms about how the table came out.

Asked in my last post here if you would let me know when you received the fresh cloth from Armand.
Has it arrived?

 

[Bigkahuna]

cloth

Asked in my last post here if you would let me know when you received the fresh cloth from Armand.
Has it arrived?

Rick I do have it and thank you for the great service. I have yet to install it as I just have not had the time lately.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Cushion Question

So I have a new piece of cloth to replace the hopefully defective one I have now. I also have an opportunity to address another issue. I am looking for advise from anyone who may offer it, so, here goes.

The table plays short. By short I mean if I play the standard three rail bank from right corner into the left corner on the same end I come up at a half diamond from the pocket. I do know that humidity cleanliness of the balls and cloth can effect this but I am talking about most of the time it plays short. The rails just do not spring like say the rails that are on the GC3s I play on at the pool hall. They are close but I am wondering if there is a worthwhile improvement that can be done.

Most modern tables have a relief cut for the cloth and staples on the bottom. My T-rail table has none and there isn't a lot of room for one. That area on the underside is just under 1 inch. I had thought of doing this but figured it never had one and should be fine. Most places I can get a business card partially if not completely under the rail. So it seems to me that perhaps the area near the pockets where the cloth wrinkles when stapling is holding the rail up a bit. I have seen on newer tables a deeper cut in this area. My cushion height is just barely over 1 7/16" so with this modification it should lower the cushion. I believe my mistake here was during my mock up I did not account for the wrinkled area.

So here are some questions in regards to this:
Should I relief cut just the area near the pockets?
Or do the whole rail so there is only the bed cloth between the slate and the rail?
Is there an improvement in having less cloth between the rail and slate or is it all about cushion height?
Is the apparent space between the rail and slate even an issue where the T-rails bolt to the side of the slate?
If 1 3/8" is on the low side and 1 7/16" is on the high how sensitive is this measurement to cushion rebound?
Will lowering the cushion height make the table play longer?

In advance thank you for any thoughts you might be able to contribute and Happy Halloween!:grin-devilish:

 

[Bigkahuna]

Anybody???? My questions on these cushions?????

So I have a new piece of cloth to replace the hopefully defective one I have now. I also have an opportunity to address another issue. I am looking for advise from anyone who may offer it, so, here goes.

The table plays short. By short I mean if I play the standard three rail bank from right corner into the left corner on the same end I come up at a half diamond from the pocket. I do know that humidity cleanliness of the balls and cloth can effect this but I am talking about most of the time it plays short. The rails just do not spring like say the rails that are on the GC3s I play on at the pool hall. They are close but I am wondering if there is a worthwhile improvement that can be done.

Most modern tables have a relief cut for the cloth and staples on the bottom. My T-rail table has none and there isn't a lot of room for one. That area on the underside is just under 1 inch. I had thought of doing this but figured it never had one and should be fine. Most places I can get a business card partially if not completely under the rail. So it seems to me that perhaps the area near the pockets where the cloth wrinkles when stapling is holding the rail up a bit. I have seen on newer tables a deeper cut in this area. My cushion height is just barely over 1 7/16" so with this modification it should lower the cushion. I believe my mistake here was during my mock up I did not account for the wrinkled area.

So here are some questions in regards to this:
Should I relief cut just the area near the pockets?
Or do the whole rail so there is only the bed cloth between the slate and the rail?
Is there an improvement in having less cloth between the rail and slate or is it all about cushion height?
Is the apparent space between the rail and slate even an issue where the T-rails bolt to the side of the slate?
If 1 3/8" is on the low side and 1 7/16" is on the high how sensitive is this measurement to cushion rebound?
Will lowering the cushion height make the table play longer?

In advance thank you for any thoughts you might be able to contribute and Happy Halloween!:grin-devilish:

 

[OTLB]

I just picked up a super nice Oliver Briggs table in Maine(Mint). Thought I would show you the plate and rail style since it is inherit to OB. Notice the nice cue stand with OB stenciled on it. I am putting Northern cushions on it and will let you know how it all comes out when I am done.
It even came with original balls in the OB wooden box, OB brush, and pocket plugs. I can't wait to fit the plugs with new rubber and cloth.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Ob

John
Looks a like great find indeed love that tiger oak. That ball and cue rack looks very unique. The ball shaped peice on the left of the cue rack is that just a decoration? Where in Maine did you find this? Tell me more about those cushions? Looks like they are from England?