Max Harding
Registered
.... any kind of a mark on his cues to identify them or do you have to take them to an 'expert'?
Anybody know?
Thanks,
Max
Anybody know?
Thanks,
Max
Did George Balabushka sign or put ......
- Thread starter Max Harding
- Start date
Max Harding said:
Yeah, Pete Tascarella. Call him.
He didn't sign or mark them. You should take it to an expert. I would suggest Pete Tascarella first, and Bill Schick second. Apart from those two, I don't know of anyone else that had all the Balabushka notes in their hands (for true identification). Pete has them still.Max Harding said:
Fred
Max Harding
Registered
Thank you, Jay and Cornerman.
Any idea how to get in touch with these two gentlemen?
Thanks,
Max
Any idea how to get in touch with these two gentlemen?
Thanks,
Max
Cornerman said:
I'm not a cue collector so I'm just asking out of curiosity. Today, all kinds of products are knocked off...Gucci, Coach etc. that are in many cases, virtually indistinguishable from the authentic products.
Were there no unscrupulous types back during the height of GB's and Zambotti's popularity who knocked off their designs?
I just wonder what there is about the notes that could distinguish a GB cue from an exact design knock off built back then so age would not be a way to tell the difference as would be the case with newly built fakes.
Thanks,
Jim
Max Harding
Registered
av84fun said:
Jim,
I don't know what there is about the notes that allows someone to definitely distinguish a real one from a great copy of a real one. But, perhaps just a lot of experience with ones he/she knows to be true would help a lot.
My understand is that there were 1,000s of fakes made while he was making his that maybe only numbered somewhere around a thousand.
Read somewhere that even good fakes, if old enough, are worth quite a bit.
But, others on this forum will know considerably more than me.
Try Jay Helfert and Cornerman on this site.
They seem to know something about who actually knows something.
Max
There absolutely were!!! That's the importance of getting the cue in question to an expert.av84fun said:
There are dimensions in certain areas, marks made by George's tooling, and whole lot of things that unless you were privy to the notes, that you'd be guessing at if you were to try to knock off a Balabushka. many peopel know about some of these. Only Pete could tell you about all of the rest that nobody knows about. And unless you're Pete Jr., he's not telling. According to Pete, George made all kinds of notes as he developed his cues. Pete is the owner of those notes.
To my knowledge (which ain't much, mind you), only two cuemakers (Pete and Pete Jr. count as one!) had their hands on those notes. And I"m not sure to what extent Bill Schick had his hands on them (note: I consider Bill Schick an expert in Balabushka cues).
Fred
Balabushka "tells"
There are supposedly at least 7 "tells" to 'authenticate' a Balabushka. I don't know all seven (and I even owned and played with one I bought from George, 3 mos. before he died in '75, for 17 years). Some of them are: the type of screw in the butt end of the cue; the number and spacing of the threads on the joint screw; the kind of butt cap and rubber bumper; and the placement and thickness of the rings around the shafts & joint. There are at least 4 others that I can't remember. Maybe someone else knows them. Certainly Pete Tascarella knows. Whether he wants that knowledge public or not, I don't know...since he is paid to authenticate cues like this. Someone else who is very knowledgable about real Balabushkas is Bill Stroud/JossWest Cues.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
There are supposedly at least 7 "tells" to 'authenticate' a Balabushka. I don't know all seven (and I even owned and played with one I bought from George, 3 mos. before he died in '75, for 17 years). Some of them are: the type of screw in the butt end of the cue; the number and spacing of the threads on the joint screw; the kind of butt cap and rubber bumper; and the placement and thickness of the rings around the shafts & joint. There are at least 4 others that I can't remember. Maybe someone else knows them. Certainly Pete Tascarella knows. Whether he wants that knowledge public or not, I don't know...since he is paid to authenticate cues like this. Someone else who is very knowledgable about real Balabushkas is Bill Stroud/JossWest Cues.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Last edited:
Easypooltutor usually keeps up with the cuemaker database. Pete sometimes post here as Pete Da Cop. Marcus ( FAST_N_LOOSE ) deals with Tascarella a lot, so you might drop him a PM.Max Harding said:
Pete Tascarella
tascarellacues@optonline.net
Bill Schick Originals
Address and Contact Information:
8101 Kingston Rd, ste 112
Shreveport, Louisiana 71108
United States
318-688-8070 (Phone Number)
info@billschickoriginals.net (Email Address)
Fred
Back in the 80's there was a character driving around south Florida with a trunk load of GB knockoffs. I was told by someone who knew cues that they were so good that the only way to tell them from a real one was to remove an inlay and examine the tool marks on the undercut.av84fun said:
There seems to be a catch 22 here though. Imagine how you would feel if your cue was damaged in removing an inlay, only to discover that you had a real Balabuska that was in perfect condition before you discovered it was real.
av84fun said:
Not all that many.
Perhaps you are not aware - for all practical purposes,
'flipping' cues didn't happen untill after the advent of the cue boom
kicked off by 'The Color of Money'. And, hardly anybody owned more
than one cue at a time. There was no such thing as
'the secondary market' - and there were only a handfull of makers
that could make even a mediocre copy. One player in our area
used to buy 6 cues at a time from Gus. He was the only person
I ever heard of who did this - and he sold them for maybe $20
more than they would have cost direct from Gus. Not exactly
a formula for getting rich and famous.
Basically, George or Gus's cues usually were only sold when
somebody went broke or got married
In the early 70s, Bushkas cost aprox $160 - by the late 70s, you could
buy a NEW Szambo for $175<less-BTW than a comparable McDerm-inator>
Prior to TCoM release - Szams regularly changed hands for $100 or less,
often much less. You could buy a Bushka for $250 - $300 with a
Fellini case included. All in all, not so much motovation to build knockoffs.
IMHO - the vast majority of counterfeits were not contemporary.
Dale
"went broke or got married"........ don't you have that backwards?pdcue said:Not all that many.
Perhaps you are not aware - for all practical purposes,
'flipping' cues didn't happen untill after the advent of the cue boom
kicked off by 'The Color of Money'. And, hardly anybody owned more
than one cue at a time. There was no such thing as
'the secondary market' - and there were only a handfull of makers
that could make even a mediocre copy. One player in our area
used to buy 6 cues at a time from Gus. He was the only person
I ever heard of who did this - and he sold them for maybe $20
more than they would have cost direct from Gus. Not exactly
a formula for getting rich and famous.
Basically, George or Gus's cues usually were only sold when
somebody went broke or got married
In the early 70s, Bushkas cost aprox $160 - by the late 70s, you could
buy a NEW Szambo for $175<less-BTW than a comparable McDerm-inator>
Prior to TCoM release - Szams regularly changed hands for $100 or less,
often much less. You could buy a Bushka for $250 - $300 with a
Fellini case included. All in all, not so much motovation to build knockoffs.
IMHO - the vast majority of counterfeits were not contemporary.
Dale
pdcue said:Not all that many.
Perhaps you are not aware - for all practical purposes,
'flipping' cues didn't happen untill after the advent of the cue boom
kicked off by 'The Color of Money'. And, hardly anybody owned more
than one cue at a time. There was no such thing as
'the secondary market' - and there were only a handfull of makers
that could make even a mediocre copy. One player in our area
used to buy 6 cues at a time from Gus. He was the only person
I ever heard of who did this - and he sold them for maybe $20
more than they would have cost direct from Gus. Not exactly
a formula for getting rich and famous.
Basically, George or Gus's cues usually were only sold when
somebody went broke or got married
In the early 70s, Bushkas cost aprox $160 - by the late 70s, you could
buy a NEW Szambo for $175<less-BTW than a comparable McDerm-inator>
Prior to TCoM release - Szams regularly changed hands for $100 or less,
often much less. You could buy a Bushka for $250 - $300 with a
Fellini case included. All in all, not so much motovation to build knockoffs.
IMHO - the vast majority of counterfeits were not contemporary.
Dale
Guy I know swears he bought one direct from George for $60, right out of his trunk. He sold the stick without the original shaft (creepy move) for a grand sometime in the late 80's.
In 1971 I was working in a jewelry findings house. One of the machinist was selling his Balabuska for $75 because he lost over a $1000 playing pool the night before at Bayshore Billiards. I knew the cue was worth evey bit of that and had the money in my pocket. I didn't like the smart-ass so I didn't buy it. I guess I showed him. Johnnyt
Fragged said:
I know a guy who bought a butt from someone who bought it from the mother of a guy who was in a mental institution at the time {drugs}. Had Palmer make one shaft for it and then had Gus make another one some time later. Sold it for $3,000 in the early or mid '90s.
Apparently the thread and design of the screw inside the butt is also very telling since I understand X-rays are often requested by Pete in his authentication process.
Joe
Joe
There was a guy in Amarillo years ago, that used to play out of Amarillo Slims, and ran around alot with Diamond Dave (from Dallas)that swore he had a Balabushka signed under the wrap. I don't remember his name at the moment, but I'm sure someone on here knew him....
He said he had Richard Black check it out and Authenticate it.
Less than a year later, someone stole it out of his van while he was downtown working out at the YMCA.
I don't know if it ever was found again, but I know it destroyed him and his faith in humanity.
I guess this was around 1994-95?
Anyway, I'm not too sure how much truth there was to the signature part of it, but he swore to it.
He said he had Richard Black check it out and Authenticate it.
Less than a year later, someone stole it out of his van while he was downtown working out at the YMCA.
I don't know if it ever was found again, but I know it destroyed him and his faith in humanity.
I guess this was around 1994-95?
Anyway, I'm not too sure how much truth there was to the signature part of it, but he swore to it.