I didn't see it and opted to use the money to buy the dvd instead in case it turned out a classic.
DId SVB choke in your opinion?
DId SVB choke in your opinion?
Did SVB do the C word?
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
JoeyInCali said:
I wasn't able to watch the match either, and I'm curious if SVB broke-down mentally -- or did Alex just step up his game to the point where there was nothing that SVB could do to stop him?
it was 84-69 at one point. SVB loses 100-94. How does that happen unless there is some C going on?
The big moment imo came when it was like 91-87 or something like that and Shane tried to fire a ball into the corner and draw up and down. He missed and from there he didnt have any good opportunities again until it was tied up. Then the next good opportunity he had he scratched. bleh
The big moment imo came when it was like 91-87 or something like that and Shane tried to fire a ball into the corner and draw up and down. He missed and from there he didnt have any good opportunities again until it was tied up. Then the next good opportunity he had he scratched. bleh
I didn't watch the final night but I'd defnitely say he choked a bit.
You can't be 84-69 up, lose, and not have bottled a few key balls.
He will no doubt be kicking himself today, and for another few days lol.
He'll be back though. He's got as much ability and class with a cue as anybody else ever and he's still only young.
He'll chalk it up to experience and continue to be a huge force in the game for many years.
You can't be 84-69 up, lose, and not have bottled a few key balls.
He will no doubt be kicking himself today, and for another few days lol.
He'll be back though. He's got as much ability and class with a cue as anybody else ever and he's still only young.
He'll chalk it up to experience and continue to be a huge force in the game for many years.
uwate said:
Dave,
I'm going to take the opposite view and say "no", he did not choke. Here's my reasoning....
SVB (like Alex) had won some major pool championships, he's been in many a challenge match and choking or doggin' it has never been in his description before. That doesn't mean he never did, but IF he ever did, it wasn't enough for lots of people to start mumbling about it.
If Shane choked at the end, is it fair to say that Alex "choked" in the beginning? I don't think so. I think that just like in any match up, there's a winner & a loser. Next time, who knows? But to say that SVB suddenly "choked" after all the championships he's won and the successes he's had just doesn't seem to fit him.
I see a very composed player in SVB. He feels the heat like everybody. But I don't think he dogged any more shots than any other elite pro would in a similar situation.
Bottom line for me is that 2 very great champions went to war. After valiant effort by both champs, Alex was the better warrior in this last match up.
Next time, who knows?
We have not seen the last of SVB at the top of pool, that's for sure.
Interesting subject though and a good thread for discussion.
I watched the final night and i dont think SVB choked at all. Shane got the score to 84-69 and from that point Alex played some of the best 10 ball ever. Other than some safties and a few dry breaks I dont think he missed a ball he was shooting at and trying to make. Shane did get very mad at what seemed like a sure thing earlier in the night and alex got Ronnie Wisemen to go get him a snack and gatorade and shane ate nothing , seemed to pump alex up and shane looked drained.
Terry, did you watch the match? esp the last 30 racks? Shane's wheels came right off at the end. He missed all kinds of shots and position he was easily executing earlier on in the match when Alex was not putting so much pressure on him. That last shot he missed that is up on Youtube is very much like the one he missed that I described earlier in this thread. Where I come from they call that DOGGING IT.
uwate said:
I didn't watch the match so this is total speculation, but do you think it's possible that the "f" word applies more than the "c" word; that it might have been fatigue rather than choking that caused his game to drop off at the end?
-Andrew
maybe alex just plays better...
These are guys who play 18hrs of pool no sweat Andrew. Anyone who watched Shane beat Daz at the DCC knows he can play long stretches. Besides, managing fatigue when the stakes are this high is as critical as matching up and making solid hits on the head ball when breaking. Its part of the game and if SVB didnt manage that, he dogged it there too imo. Surely all the long sessions of gambling he has done have educated him on managing this part of his game. If he knows how to do something and fails to execute during critical times, is it unfair to characterize that as choking too? I always thought choking meant that you didnt execute something you should have because of the pressure getting to you and clouding your mind and stroke.
branpureza said:
Maybe true, but definitely irrelevant. The question wasn't did Alex deserve to win, it was about SVB being up by 20+ games at one point, then losing. Winning 10 to Alex's 31 at the end when he had been in control for the majority of the match.
James said:
haha, how is it irrelevant when you're trying to figure out why someone won or lost? The fact that Alex played better in the end is exactly why he won... and for those who think SVB choked, well that's a direct result of what? Alex playing his ass off, that's what... if Alex just folded up like a lawn chair when he was down, which is what most players would have done, Shane would have coasted to victory... instead Alex stepped his game up like a true champion and showed everyone including Shane what heart really was.
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Yes, Shane choked. He was frustrated and dogged shots and got out of line. Alex put the heat on him and people start to get a little hitch in their stroke when that happens.
Yes, it's fair to say that Alex choked in the beginning to allow Shane to build a 22 game lead. I didn't read about anyone running five or ten packs so it wasn't as if Shane was building this lead without Alex getting to shoot.
By all accounts most of day one and two Alex was struggling and Shane was getting the rolls on top of playing nearly perfectly. Also as mentioned Shane was playing six ball due to his big break.
On day three Alex stopped making so many mistakes and Shane started making more of them. If both of them had played perfect then Shane would have won.
Shane dogged it and realized he had a true warrior on the other side of the table. How can you NOT dog it against a guy who won't lay down when you have pounded on him for two days straight?
How did Archer feel when he ran 13 racks against Bustamante in a race to 13 and Bustmante asked to DOUBLE the bet for the next set?
Well all I can say is that Shane is still getting better. This will probably mess with his head a little but it's what he needs to get stronger.
He has called out the world's best and he knows that in order to dominate he will have to be better than them. And the only way to get there is to play them and learn and use what they do.
Yes, it's fair to say that Alex choked in the beginning to allow Shane to build a 22 game lead. I didn't read about anyone running five or ten packs so it wasn't as if Shane was building this lead without Alex getting to shoot.
By all accounts most of day one and two Alex was struggling and Shane was getting the rolls on top of playing nearly perfectly. Also as mentioned Shane was playing six ball due to his big break.
On day three Alex stopped making so many mistakes and Shane started making more of them. If both of them had played perfect then Shane would have won.
Shane dogged it and realized he had a true warrior on the other side of the table. How can you NOT dog it against a guy who won't lay down when you have pounded on him for two days straight?
How did Archer feel when he ran 13 racks against Bustamante in a race to 13 and Bustmante asked to DOUBLE the bet for the next set?
Well all I can say is that Shane is still getting better. This will probably mess with his head a little but it's what he needs to get stronger.
He has called out the world's best and he knows that in order to dominate he will have to be better than them. And the only way to get there is to play them and learn and use what they do.
Saying SVB choked is taking credit away from an amazing performance by Alex.
Stop gossiping like little schoolgirls and give credit where it's due. The fact is there was some amazing pool played by both players.
Stop gossiping like little schoolgirls and give credit where it's due. The fact is there was some amazing pool played by both players.
branpureza said:
TAP TAP TAP!!! WELL SAID KABAYAN
Also a lil bit of fate was on Alexs side. With the format being 30-40-30 that imo SAVED alex. If the set on the second day stops at 30, shane goes into day three with a huge lead. Alex said that on day 2, the comeback that he mounted was the best pool hes EVER played in his life. And he said that to a few guys, not to a reporter or camera
no choking here........
Shane didn't choke. He was just frustrated at the way things were going. Choking is due to being scared. He was just a little tilted. Why? Obviously Alex made a huge comeback, but he needed and got some good rolls along the way. As Grady always says, the balls know who's winning. Many things could have gone just slightly differently to launch Shane across the finish line.
Don't get me wrong. Alex made the comeback of the decade and it is a match I will always be glad that I witnessed. When you are down that much you have to play great just to give yourself a chance and hope for a little help from the pool gods along the way. He deserves to win for doing that, and I would certainly never bet a nickel against Alex.
But I don't think I will ever bet against Shane again. With his firepower and break I felt that Alex had to play perfect and get a little lucky to win that set. Give him credit for playing perfect. He certainly deserves the win. But there is no question that he wasn't parking whitey and playing shape on the one like SVB, and came up dry much more often. That means that all match long Shane had many more opportunities to shoot which accounts for his lead and his confidence. When you run three racks an inning it takes a little heat off of your game when your opponent is fighting to make balls or get a shot at the one.
Alex found that the only way to stop SVB's endless break and runs was to not let him break. After winning many games in a row he finally succeeded in getting Shane out of stroke and rode his wave to the end.
In summary, it could've gone either way, and I will never bet against either of them again. They are both world champions in my book, and if I were Shane I would be proud that I got a player like that down 22 games not ashamed of losing to a historic performance.
Shane didn't choke. He was just frustrated at the way things were going. Choking is due to being scared. He was just a little tilted. Why? Obviously Alex made a huge comeback, but he needed and got some good rolls along the way. As Grady always says, the balls know who's winning. Many things could have gone just slightly differently to launch Shane across the finish line.
Don't get me wrong. Alex made the comeback of the decade and it is a match I will always be glad that I witnessed. When you are down that much you have to play great just to give yourself a chance and hope for a little help from the pool gods along the way. He deserves to win for doing that, and I would certainly never bet a nickel against Alex.
But I don't think I will ever bet against Shane again. With his firepower and break I felt that Alex had to play perfect and get a little lucky to win that set. Give him credit for playing perfect. He certainly deserves the win. But there is no question that he wasn't parking whitey and playing shape on the one like SVB, and came up dry much more often. That means that all match long Shane had many more opportunities to shoot which accounts for his lead and his confidence. When you run three racks an inning it takes a little heat off of your game when your opponent is fighting to make balls or get a shot at the one.
Alex found that the only way to stop SVB's endless break and runs was to not let him break. After winning many games in a row he finally succeeded in getting Shane out of stroke and rode his wave to the end.
In summary, it could've gone either way, and I will never bet against either of them again. They are both world champions in my book, and if I were Shane I would be proud that I got a player like that down 22 games not ashamed of losing to a historic performance.