Difficult Situation

Blackjack

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
This is a very long post, but I am looking for some sound, practical advice from room owners that have experience with buidling and/or rebuilding a business.

I am in a difficult situation.

The History
The room I am operating now is the same room I operated from 1994-1998. Back then I had tournaments, leagues for pool and darts, regular customers, etc, etc. I was able to profit $9K after the bills monthly despite the fact that I did not have draft beer, liquor, or food. I had 18 pool tables, 2 snooker tables, a bar table, and I sold various chips, popcorn, sodas, and bottled beer only. In January of 1998, my business partner sold her half of the business to someone that did not share my work ethic. In less than 3 months I was screaming to get out of there and eventually I had my lawyer assist me with doing just that.

The new "partner" bought out my half of the business officially in July of 1998 and operated this room until July of 2005. In this 7 year period she never cleaned anything, never performed maintenance on the tables or the plumbing, and opened and closed the business whenever she felt like it. This drove away all of the customers - the place turned into a real $hit-hole and smelled like one too. The room acquired a reputation for being the worst room in El Paso. Once customers leave, you can count on them never coming back.

Why I am back
In July 2005, a friend of mine bought the business. She tried desperately for a year and a half to build the business back up - but she lacked knowledge of the business and how to properly run it. In November, she called me in because I was the only person that was able to make money with it. This place has been a pool hall since the late 1960's and I felt that it was worth saving.

What I did
My first suggestion was to start opening during the day to generate daytime business. She was opening at 4, sometimes 5PM - or whenever. There was no set schedule, and no regular customers. I had my work cut out for me because it was a complete mess.

I started working 16 hour days. I put out the word that I was running the room again and that I was giving classes, running tournaments, etc. I had most of the table re-done and and I cleaned everything. I scheduled tournaments and made flyers for in house leagues. I started a flat rate during the day of $3 per player - flat rate at night $5 a player. I also started happy hour 4-7, ladies night, free pool on tuesday - Nothing changed. I got 1 or two students, but I mostly attracted the "players" - you know the guys that want to loiter all day and show up for free pool.

What happened
When these guys realized that I was going to charge them just like everybody else, they left and spread the word about what an a$$hole I was. They spread the word that I was being a complete dikkhead about charging for table time. As a result of that, the tournaments I scheduled attracted 3 or 4 players and when they saw nobody else showed up, they walked out too. This pissed me off because in the past I have supported many of them - ie; supporting their businesses such as air conditioning, electricians, mechanics, etc, etc, - provided discounts to all of them in the process while paying the full amount of what they charged me without hesitation or complaining.

The league fiasco of 2007
The leagues I planned never materialized because they asked me to give the players free pool during league night, free tables, and discounted drinks. They asked me to provide free pool to all the league players during the week also. I said no because I wanted the leagues to generate income for the business - not to have my arm twisted into giving more discounts. IMO, the people running the leagues were doing nothing but trying to fill my room with non-paying customers. After weeks of negotiating with this league coordinator, I opted for the in-house league which operated on a ladder system. The team that finsihed atop the ladder for that week would get free pool/discounted items the following week. The second week of my in house league, the original league coordinator directed the players to another room that agreed to her demands and this destroyed my league. My in house league was left with about 5 of the original players from eight 3-player teams. Before I hear that I made a bad choice, or exercised poor negotiationg skills, FWIW, this was done maliciously to draw these players away from my business - this was after I caved in and had allowed all of them to practice for free for quite some time.

You now understand why I have a low opinion of the leagues.

The down side of this pool room
This room is not equipped with a kitchen or draft beer.
At this point in time I cannot afford to hire any young, well endowed employees wearing skimpy outfits.

Its basically just myself and my business partner working. I am the bartender, the janitor, I clean the tables, I stock the coolers, I don everything.

The upside of this pool room
I run a simple room with 16 pool tables, 2 snooker tables, and 3 bar tables.

We serve soda, and beer.
I give lessons. I charge $25 for 3 lessons - IMO a there is no better price for the quality you will receive with my instruction - but the fact is that many people are saying that I am charging too much.

It is a non-smoking room, but all there is an ordinance in this city and all of the rooms are non-smoking. I allow all ages to play in my room.

This is the last "pool hall" left in this city. The rest are "sports bars" with people playing poker on pool tables - some of teh rooms have poker tables.

How I feel about this
Perhaps I have been away from the business for too long.
Perhaps the previous owner dragged the business so far into the ground that there is no saving it.
Our bills are well over $6K a month and this month we won't even come close to making it.

What is going through my head as I try to go to sleep at night
I have promised myself that this would be my last go round as a room operator, but its hard to not get bitter about the situation when you figure that people you have helped out in the past would in turn help you support your business. In this partnership I have an out-clause in the first 12 months - but I lose everything that I invested. I am very close to exercising my out-clause.

In the past few months I have learned the following truths:

1) No matter how low the prices are for my tables, drinks, lessons, etc, people will still bytch and moan about it.

2) No matter what you do for the "players" they are always looking for something for nothing.

I don't think it has nothing to do with the way I am "running" the business. I believe that it has a lot to do with pre-existing problems and the reputation of the room. To keep the lights on I have to charge for drinks and table time. I can't pay my bills catering to freeloaders, and IMO, 90% of the "players" fit that description. Despite the tone of this post I am very pleasant with all of my customers, even with the freeloaders. I don't want to give anybody the impression that I have a bad attitude. I don't. If my attitude is bad, constructive criticism is encouraged - from room owners. IMO, I am too worried and stressed out about this situation to have the energy to be the A-hole that I am reported to be.

What I will have to do if this room closes
IMO, If this business goes down the toilet, I will be forced to do 3 things:

1) Charge more for private instruction - $100 a session - I will not budge from that price for anybody - effective the day I walk out of here.

2) Charge upwards of $40 - $50 for my books. I am currently seling them for much less than that - but I will raise the price with no apologies to anyone.

3) Watch the bill collectors swarm around me like sharks as people bytch and complain about why I have raised my rates. lol. I have to eat too.


What I cannot do
I cannot put in a kitchen. It really isn't needed. I have 3 restaurants in the strip mall already and to be honest - there is no room for a kitchen - and no money to fund such a project. The other restaurants deliver food free to my place and I have an area with tables where people can eat. I know that some will say that I am filling the registers of the other businesses and not my own, but it is more of a "I'll help you if you help me" agreement with these businesses.

I cannot realistically start serving draft at this time. To start serving draft beer, I would have to put in a new sink - about $5K in plumbing/equipment possibly more.

I am not interested in opening a pro shop. I've gone the pro-shop route before - I don't want to go that route again. The pro-shop has never been profitable for me at all - if I am missing out on an opportunity, let me know. I will listen. We literally are not in a situation to start up that type of investment at this time.

What I can do

I was talking with a few people that suggested that I start leagues with several local businesses, kids leagues, senior citizens, etc. I have been told that this would attract new customers and keep the room filled during the days that the leagues are scheduled. At this point I am willing to try anything with the exception of having the original league coordinator come back to my room.

I can play with my daily and weekly specials - any ideas would be appreciated.

I can offer free pool to city employees such as fire dept, police, EMS, etc, & offer specials to local businesses also.

Any thoughts or ideas form room owners would be much appreciated. Help!
(edited to creatively re-spell some bad words to get my point across)
 
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Blackjack,

DAMN! and I thought the so called pool players in my area were bad lol.

I am not a pool hall owner, BUT! I know how a business should be run.

I myself would make it so the pool players want to come there, You could run a flat rate of 10$ for all the pool playing you want from Open till 5pm.

And then from 5pm to 10pm charge 15$ per person obviously.

Since your a pool player, I assume the tables are in good condition, with the sets cleaned all the time.

As for leagues, I've always thought they are hit or miss. A In-house league is generally the best way to go, as you tried. But you can always tried offering a incentive, like if someone brings in a NEW team, and keeps them in the league for 2 or 3 sessions that run 10 or more weeks, they get a NEW cue, or case upto X amount of $.

And same goes for tournaments, Have a set first place prize of 100$ w/ 16players, and a championship tournament every 3 months, for all the players who have played atleast 8times, with a first place prize of 500$ or whatever sounds reasonable.

You can have a beat the house pro challenge of 25$, and if they beat you in a race to 9, they get to play pool for free on anyday they choose from open till 11pm.

Can you replace tips? or have a lathe?

Advertising that the place is under new ownership.

You could run a 18 and under tournament with age brackets, and the winner each week, gets X amount of money + a Free 3 hour lesson.

I will say this, i kinda know what your going through cuz, one of the pool halls in my town has gone the same route, the owner just let everything slide, and stopped taking care of the tables or the bathroom, and he stopped caring.

His room, was the place to go for years on end, and it was like one day he just said F IT lol. And it is sad, cuz his location is PRIME, and I know if someone took over the place and re-did the tables and took care of everything, it would be booming with business again.

Alot of times, you need to have a gimmick to get people in the door.
 
Sorry to hear your situation. Many of your comments bring back old memories and reinforce more recent ones. One sad fact about dealing with the general public is that no matter what you do. You are an a**hole just screwing people and making millions of dollars doing it. I can sell a cue below cost and have the pool player tell all his friends how I f*cked him over. I offer his money back and he says "no thanks, I stole this cue". Just a part of doing business I am sad to say.

Gimmicks to get people in the door always involve a loss leader when you are in a bad situation. FREE FREE FREE is all anyone wants anymore. I would say give a free cue (Have a few samples set out $50-75 range) once a week for a month to kids under 18 that play pool there. Or if that is pushing it just a free day of pool. Kids will network for you when there is a deal much faster than adults will. Put in a student rate. Even if it is a very slight discount students love getting it. They will spread the word. Give coupons to your best PAYING customers. Give them more than they can use and they will hand them out to friends. Expiration dates are key to getting them to spread them around. Keep track of your best customers and post thier names. Base it on number of hours played. Give your top five players half price ALL THE TIME. People HATE seeing someone else as number one.

Selling dart supplies are very good for us since we have virtually no competition. I would suggest doing the same or finding a niche of selling SOMETHING where the competition is non-existant. Advertise free pool everyday in the daytime for a month (BUT JUST ONE TABLE) . One hour max. People will hang out waiting for the free table and buy a drink or sandwich. Cover the table in a different color (blue) and make up some corny name for it. The Broke A** Pool Player Blue Slate Special. You know your clients better than most. You could have a student table with a local schools colors. Diversity and trying everything might be your hook. Everyone that wears a tie gets an hour of pool. Everyone that wears a college shirt gets a free hour. When you start doing this sort of thing everyday it does create an atmosphere and does make people talk. They wont always talk positive about you but at least they are advertising FOR you. Better than NO one talking about you. Lots of good suggestions on this pool room owners forums in different threads. I also used to post in the main forum before they had an owners forum about some same issues. Maybe do some searches.

Finally, weeding out the problems. There is a saying around St. Louis bars and pool rooms.
"Sometimes there is an addition by a subtraction."
Problem customers that whine or gossip or add drama to your room may be hurting you more than you think. Just because a guy spends money doesnt mean he doesnt also drive customers (and their money) away. If you have a guy that spends $5 a day but two people a day get tired of his political rants. Get tired of his barking at people to gamble. Get tired of him knowing everything there is to know about pool? He might be driving $20 a day AWAY from you. We have barred customers that have visited us for 20 years and asked top dollar customers to leave. If they create an environment that is bad for you, your employees, other customers. Well, its time for them to leave.

Good luck and keep us all informed.
 
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CNC,

The Broke AZZ blue slate special made me laugh lol, only! cuz, two of the pool halls in town have free pool days, one has it on monday and another has it on Weds, but its only for APA league members. And of course you see people comming outa no-where to play for free.

I'd also say, if your to do this, make it a true BB in crappy condition, with a sign over the table, FREE POOL FOR THE BROKE POOL PLAYERS!

Student rates are a GREAT IDEA, college and hs kids, you could make it half of the regular rate.

Plus you can talk to the college kids about getting all the Fraternaties girls and guys together a couple times a month, like a Saturday or friday nite, and let them pair off guys/girls for a tournament.

And same goes with the High school kids.

I know that the pool hall i goto on weds, gets atleast once a week 20-30college kids comming in all at once, the owner gives them the back 4 tables, They are outa the way of everyone and do their thing, but ITS FREAKING EASY MONEY for him. expecially at 8$ per hr/per table. And most of the time the kids just want POP to drink.

Also, a LADIES NITE is also good. I know of several places that do a ladies nite where, the ladies play for free all nite long if they come in with a guy, or if its two girls playing together its half off too.
 
It's really hard to recover from a bad fall. Sometimes, when the name is tainted, all you have to do is RENAME it & make a new image!:cool:


What makes your pool hall different from other competitors? What image are you trying to project? Which customers do you think your image captures? These are the questions each business should ask to position yourself to a market.

If you ask me, FORGET THE OLD PLAYERS! You can always tap a new & better market with your new image. As the others have suggested, you can tap students, family, and even the elderly. You can introduce NEW FUN GAMES to these markets since classic games may seem too "professional" or too complicated to these new market. You can have even host private parties, let say of fraternities & sororities or even birthday parties. There's even the new glow-in-the dark pool. You can always give free lessons/tips so long as they are paying for the table & your schedule is free. Nothing beats a warm & sincere service!

It's quite difficult to sign these new players to leagues, so might as well have something like a mini-fun events. Example, those who can finish all 15 balls in any order within 60sec gets a prize.

In addition, you can also filter serious "paying" players by providing better service/facilities like TV-balls, competition cloths, branded cue rentals, etc. You can start on a few tables which serves like VIP tables. With this, they'll feel special as they are treated like VIP's. Later on you'll be attracting more serious players because of your facilities, and, of course, your great service.

You can have tournaments without giving CASH prizes in order to filter "unwanted" players. Instead, you can invest on better prizes like branded cues, cases, and, most importantly, HUGE trophies!

We have tried all these new strategies mentioned above in the Bowling & Billiard Center I used to handle that caters to the A&B markets who are mostly "recreational players". The center is located in the mall so indirect competition is high. Nevertheless, we still get a full house, especially on Fridays & Saturdays, thanks to the different marketing strategies we implemented. Although we charge a premium rate, it did not deter serious "paying" players from practicing regularly as the ambiance, quality of service, and the 1st class facilities & amenities entice them to come back.

We also have other branches that cater to other markets, though they have different trade names depending on their market segment. One of our low-end centers is the hangout place of the undesirable money players. They get the cheap rates, the cheap ambiance, and cheaper facilities and amenities though we still give them good cloths. Since they are already settled to this low-end environment, they feel kinda embarrassed to go to our premium centers.

Keep in mind that THERE IS NO PRICE FOR GREAT QUALITY OF SERVICE. Hell, we don't mind spending a fortune on CUSTOM CUES for their quality. We also spend a lot on production cues that are almost of the same price as a Custom Cue.... but that's just another off-topic of how gullible we are to marketing strategies of these big brands:rolleyes:

Also, remember that there's always an opportunity, and there'll always be a new market. Your job is to find creative ways to attract these new market. I suggest that you go to a relaxing place, throw out all your anxieties of the old ways, and play with different fun & unique ideas to introduce to your market:)
 
Buy A New Hat And Get An Hour Of FREE Pool

Blackjack wrote <with snippage>:
The new "partner" bought out my half of the business officially in July of 1998 and operated this room until July of 2005. In this 7 year period she never cleaned anything, never performed maintenance on the tables or the plumbing, and opened and closed the business whenever she felt like it. This drove away all of the customers - the place turned into a real $hit-hole and smelled like one too. The room acquired a reputation for being the worst room in El Paso. Once customers leave, you can count on them never coming back.

My first suggestion was to start opening during the day to generate daytime business. She was opening at 4, sometimes 5PM - or whenever. There was no set schedule, and no regular customers. I had my work cut out for me because it was a complete mess.

I started working 16 hour days. I put out the word that I was running the room again and that I was giving classes, running tournaments, etc. I had most of the table re-done and and I cleaned everything. I scheduled tournaments and made flyers for in house leagues. I started a flat rate during the day of $3 per player - flat rate at night $5 a player. I also started happy hour 4-7, ladies night, free pool on tuesday - Nothing changed. I got 1 or two students, but I mostly attracted the "players" - you know the guys that want to loiter all day and show up for free pool.



Smorgass Bored replied:
You are fighting an uphill battle trying to get customers back to a room with a bad reputation that went steadily downhill for seven years at the hands of the previous owner.

You need to attract 'new' customers and give up on cajoling the old customers back. You mentioned that you were in a strip mall that includes 3 restaurants. Try a promotion for awhile that gives an hour of Free pool to anyone bringing in a 'paid receipt' from any of those restaurants. Depending on the the type of other businesses in the mall, you might offer Free pool to any customers from those businesses as well (with a paid receipt).

If this brings in a number of 'new' customers that don't know the previous history and conditions of the room, you are on your way... imo

Doug
( good luck )





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Smorgass Bored said:
Blackjack wrote <with snippage>:
The new "partner" bought out my half of the business officially in July of 1998 and operated this room until July of 2005. In this 7 year period she never cleaned anything, never performed maintenance on the tables or the plumbing, and opened and closed the business whenever she felt like it. This drove away all of the customers - the place turned into a real $hit-hole and smelled like one too. The room acquired a reputation for being the worst room in El Paso. Once customers leave, you can count on them never coming back.

My first suggestion was to start opening during the day to generate daytime business. She was opening at 4, sometimes 5PM - or whenever. There was no set schedule, and no regular customers. I had my work cut out for me because it was a complete mess.

I started working 16 hour days. I put out the word that I was running the room again and that I was giving classes, running tournaments, etc. I had most of the table re-done and and I cleaned everything. I scheduled tournaments and made flyers for in house leagues. I started a flat rate during the day of $3 per player - flat rate at night $5 a player. I also started happy hour 4-7, ladies night, free pool on tuesday - Nothing changed. I got 1 or two students, but I mostly attracted the "players" - you know the guys that want to loiter all day and show up for free pool.



Smorgass Bored replied:
You are fighting an uphill battle trying to get customers back to a room with a bad reputation that went steadily downhill for seven years at the hands of the previous owner.

You need to attract 'new' customers and give up on cajoling the old customers back. You mentioned that you were in a strip mall that includes 3 restaurants. Try a promotion for awhile that gives an hour of Free pool to anyone bringing in a 'paid receipt' from any of those restaurants. Depending on the the type of other businesses in the mall, you might offer Free pool to any customers from those businesses as well (with a paid receipt).

If this brings in a number of 'new' customers that don't know the previous history and conditions of the room, you are on your way... imo

Doug
( good luck )





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Leave it to Smorgie to think of a great idea involving food !!LOL...great idea...i would even cut your instruction rates in half for say 90 days..walk in with a whole new attitude and customers will follow.
 
Just another idea

Have you ever seen the self contained deep fryers. They are about the size of a countertop large soda machine and it has its own ansul system built in so that it covers any fire codes. They are very popular, easy to use and keep clean and put our great frozen food for your customers. Now I know a lot of people hate deep fried but it sure is good more like it than not. We put one in several years ago and serve things like fries, chicken wings, cheese sticks, chicken strips, oniion rings, zucchini, mushrooms,, garlic fries, even egg rolls. The machine is expensive but if you get a deal like we did it is worth it. We got all our money back in about a year by buying all the food from the one sponsored food company and they refunded all of it. We paid for the machine and got it basically for free in one year.
I might suggest some other simple things but I have a couple of questions.
What is the basic population of your area? Is there the college nearby? How many sq. ft. is the room? What is the rent? Do you have air conditioning? Cannot imagine any business in Texas without it. If you are the only game in town there should not be a problem getting business with some simple cheap advertising. Once the word is out you should always have some customers. I find advertising in college paper the best and cheapest. As you should know is the pool business, word of mouth, can be your best advertising. Every area of the country has their own unique problems and one fix for one area may not work in another.
 
Hey BLACKJACK

Besides an ATM machine on the premises, you might allocate some space for a "Checks Cashed Here" operation. Your average worker with a weekly paycheck looks for check cashing places and if they cash it there, they will spend some of it there (on pool or beer).

Doug
( No charge for this idea )







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Say What????

What do you mean greasy food isnt popular???

About 8 years ago we got tired of hearing complaints about all of our greasy, fattening food and candy selection.

So, what did we do? We got healthy.

We stocked fresh fruit and bagels and muffins and granola bars.

Anyone want to guess what happened.

We through about 50% of it away since no one bought it. They all complained we didnt have the candy selection we used to.

BUY GREASY and FATTENING food ONLY! If it has ANY health benefit whatsoever...don't buy it! Pool players will avoid it like a hard labor job.
 
Look where I am from

cueandcushion said:
What do you mean greasy food isnt popular???

About 8 years ago we got tired of hearing complaints about all of our greasy, fattening food and candy selection.

So, what did we do? We got healthy.

We stocked fresh fruit and bagels and muffins and granola bars.

Anyone want to guess what happened.

We through about 50% of it away since no one bought it. They all complained we didnt have the candy selection we used to.

BUY GREASY and FATTENING food ONLY! If it has ANY health benefit whatsoever...don't buy it! Pool players will avoid it like a hard labor job.
Click to expand...
Then you will understand. Next to my building is the most famous vegetarian restaurant in the country because of the fight they had with McDonalds over there name of Mcdarhmas. They had to change it to Dharmas because of them. They are always packed.
 
nfty9er said:
Then you will understand. Next to my building is the most famous vegetarian restaurant in the country because of the fight they had with McDonalds over there name of Mcdarhmas. They had to change it to Dharmas because of them. They are always packed.
Click to expand...

OK, but vegetarian food isn't always healthy, and it sure ain't "light" either. It's just vegetarian.

Of course, fried and fatty foods taste better - that's a fact of life - but a lot of people try to avoid them too, particularly middle-age to older folks (pool players) that have already had their "Wake-up Call". It's always a good idea to stock a few low-fat snacks.

Ken
 
Dave comes on here with serious concerns and the response is talk about grease fryers and vegitarian stuff. Wtf is up with that? Why not leave that crap for some forum other than the room owners forum and get back to trying to help Blackjack with his attempts to make a living. Can't you guys see he's facing a MAJOR crisis?
 
You got to be kidding, right?

JimS said:
Dave comes on here with serious concerns and the response is talk about grease fryers and vegitarian stuff. Wtf is up with that? Why not leave that crap for some forum other than the room owners forum and get back to trying to help Blackjack with his attempts to make a living. Can't you guys see he's facing a MAJOR crisis?
Click to expand...

Who the hell are you. Dave says he has no kitchen, he is looking for more income. I tell him about our fryer and how I got it for free. You think I am not trying to help him. Go stick your head in the sand and leave this to the room owners. Wtf is up with you airhead. What are you smokin? You must have a 1st grade education and cannot comprehend this thread. I will not let you insult my attempt to help a fellow room owner. Wtf is wrong with you.
 
While I am not a room owner I spent 8 years managing pool rooms here in Ottawa. Here are some things that I or other businesses in the area have had sucess with:

Food:

Work out a "delivery" deal with the restaurants in the mall. The delivery is usually just a quick walk. The deal a local bar has is 5% of the sales by receipt only. This is a win/win situation. You offer food, they make sales, and the clients have a wide selection that you would strain to offer with a small kitchen. The food is delivered on actual plates that are returned that evening usually picked up by the runner on the next food delivery.

Beer and Alcohol:

Ever though of just a small selection of bottled beer? I know from experience that if you offer a company "exclusive" rights to your bar it can be very successful. Locally one owner uses Budweiser and has Bud sponsering his leagues and pool events. The weekly high points or MVP winner gets a Bud hat that has "Weekly MVP Winner" embossed on the side. Plus you get shirts and other great giveaways.

Free Pool:

Free pool is only for league players the day of their league. We also did that Sunday was free for anyone in the league and their friends as long as they played on the same table. This is not much of a money maker. We used to not have anyone in on Sundays between 2 and 6 and this promo brought people in during those times. The stipulation was that if all the tables were taken and paying customers came in then we would start giving out the free table starting with the first one by start time.

Leagues:

The local #1 league offers good service and lots of tables. The thing that really sets them apart though is there website and access to great stats. It gives the players something to look at and talk about. Check out www.brokencue.com to see what I mean.

Memberships:

Locally some clubs have memberships that log your time spent on the tables and rewards play. At one for every ten hours logged in you get one hour free. Another offers "prizes" in the form of golf shirts with the rooms logo all the way up to a leather jacket with the logo depending on how many hours played.

Gimicks:

Perhaps you could go true 2007 and use some technology to create your new buzz. When I was the marketing manager for a room we took our pro table and placed a digital web cam (high quality) in a great location to see the whole table. We could digitally record any match. During the evenings if there wasn't a sports event on television we would play a loop of the collected matches so players could see people they know playing. This also helps people like you that give lessons. You could add a DVD of the lessons very simply and add spice to your class as well as get some great promotion as that everyone of your students will undoubtably show their friends, thus creating a buzz for your services. Should you get your website up you could also have a "live" button which allows people to view the pro table over an internet connection. You could use the webcam to create online lessons and attach your teachings on the website as well.

Pro Shop:

I understand you do not want a pro shop. Instead create a business arrangement with the local supply company for simple cross business marketing. You post your info in their location and on their website and vice versa. Let both of your businesses grow together. Perhaps their would like to use your webcam to add a sale pitch or commercial on your site?

Anyway, like I said I am not a room owner but I hope my experience has helped. Good luck.
 
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It's Better Than Licking Yourself Clean

How about running Accu-Stat matches on the TVs around the room.

Doug
( Planet 9-Ball once made over $8,000 in one night by putting me in a 'dunk tank' and letting people throw 3 balls for a $1.00 :-)
 
Blackjack, sorry to hear you're in these straits. I'm just a habitual (paying) poolroom patron and I don't know what your room looks like, but I agree with the poster who said to go for a new look. Nothing is sadder than a tired old pool room with a bunch of cheapie offers scribbled on paper. And I doubt anything but a serious makeover will clear that bad karma from the previous owner.

Get a new name, a modern, clean look. Look at everything in the design of your place, get rid of tired old items, chairs, tables, art work, paint job, carpet, you name it. I'm not saying go top dollar, because I can see you're not in the position to do that. Just getting rid of clutter, or recovering things might do it. All the time I see empty storefronts in NYC go from bare shells to plywood-lined crap to the latest hot joint in weeks, with probably just a few well-placed mirrors, wall coverings, etc.

Maybe do something to set yourself apart ... blue cloth and new table lights might be as easy as anything else.
 
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I have to say Blackjack you echo some of mine and my bosses feelings exactly. Since were ranting here. Strokerz had been open for 5 years, my boss had a partner for almost all of the 5 years. They disolved their partnership for a lot of reasons but the main one was work ethic. We have 10 Kim Steel tables 1 GCIII a couple bar boxes and a 5x10 snooker table. This is a huge room for WV standards when nost roms have only bar boxes or 3 or 4 big tables at the most. Since I took over as manager in July of 06 I have worked my butt off to change things here for the better. I will give you a break down of what we are working with here. We have a full bar beer, liquor, soda, wine, a full kitchen. Our hours are 6pm - close m-s. We have nightly drink specials and monday -thursday ladies play free pool! Our rates for table time are as follows, 1-2 people $3.50 per hr per person. 3-6 people $2.50 per hr per person. This is very reasonable I think. We have outstanding equipment that I keep in great shape. Big screen tv's over 12,00 sq feet total! There are a number or league players in our area. BCA, and an independant league that wa at one time a vnea league. I have tried starting in house leagues but most around here are reluctant to put it kindly to play on the big tables. I have promoted several monthly tourneys adding back every penny to the prize fund I take for greens fees in hopes of getting bigger crowds for the events, but sadly 95% of the players who show arent local but from out of town. PA, MD, OH ect.... If I could get 1/4 of the local players who play in the Monady and Tuesday night pool leagues I would double my fields. I have even made deals with the league operators giving discounts on cue repair and pro shop sales and such. It's pretty bad when you have a hall our size a quality and the amount of so called players in the area that I can't even get a weekly $10 9-ba;; tourney goin. I just amazes me that the people that play in the leagues do not want to improve their game and they are contend to be c & d players forever. I guess what i'm saying it's not only in your neck of the woods that you have these headaches it's all over. Every one wants something for nothing never mind your in business abd your lively hood depends on the place it's giimme gimme. I take care of those who are loyal customers of course but I ya gotta turn a profit for God's sake. And what burns me most were a college town with over 25,00 students + the regular town folk and our weeknights are usually dead. I'm 28 years old and there are very few youg players coming up in our area, it just dosent add up. I think poker and video games have hurt our sport and business something awfull. Oh we also have state gambaling machines here too! Pinball, foosball,shuffle board, jukebox, megatouch. Enough yet/ When I get players or just people in general from out of town they all say the same thing. " if this place was in my town I'd be here every night!" And the bad thing is we adversise regularly, internet, local paper, college paper, flyers and so on. Gotta say it's a tough rackett these days! Good luck Blackjack!
 
leagues

I have owned many pool rooms - and I agree with Blackjack that leagues are supposed to help build up regular customers. I now own a national league system.

I have had several complaints about "other" leagues that make unreasonable demands of the room owners. That is way out of line. This is usually only to the benefit of the league operator. My advice is to tell the league to stick it - unfortunately the league operator only does this as a bully tactic and is usually successful.

My suggestion to Dave is to form an in-house BCAPL league. You are then your own league operator. It is painless and free!

Other than that, try to develop your regular customers one at a time. I remember years ago building up business by playing 50 point straight for double or nothing on the time. That way I was actually making $3 an hour!!!!

If you hang in there you should convert the "players" and also create a few new enthusiasts. If your nut is only $200 a day, I think you have a shot of making it work.

Good luck -

Mark Griffin
BCA Pool League
 
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