Do you let those drunks get into regular fist fights? Just wondering.
Do drunks rule pool?
- Thread starter Donny Lutz
- Start date
Do you let those drunks get into regular fist fights? Just wondering.
In extreme situations like this the owner will probably lose more customers in the long run by catering to obnoxious people.Unless you can find a utopic pool room where pool is basically free but everyone is happy and the doors stay open then you just have to learn to fade the drunks because they do pay the bills.
Pool is married to alcohol right now,its just the way it is.
Our old and now closed pool room's sign read "If you ain't playin, you ain't stayin, so get out!" Pretty people friendly eh? Owner couldn't understand why customers were either leaving in droves or being asked to leave for not spending enough (in the owners opinion that is). Spend some afternoons just sitting in the local pool room having coffee with others like me. Then there are days when I play. And drink a beer or two. Guess most posters at AZ are much the same. You just can't play or drink 24/7! At least I can't!!!!
Lyn
Apparently in my area they do,and for those of you that have a decent place to play that doesn't serve alcohol,or at least doesn't cater to that crowd,be thankful.
In my little area,the only 2 places you can play pool without the primary diversion being beer or liquor are the bowling alley,and a skating rink.
Even the bowling alley sells beer and maybe mixed drinks,but that section is thankfully 21 and over with required ID.
The tables there are typically shoddy bar tables with slow cloth,sub-standard cue balls,and mismatched ball sets.
The bars are for the most part the same way. There for a while,they were all covered in something close,but not necessarily Simonis,good and fast,and most had good Valley or Dynamo cue balls.
Now,we're back to slow cloth,cheap cue balls,and rails that aren't recovered on the spot. Instead,they are recovered someplace else,and brought in,swapped out,and poorly in some cases. I've seen rails move from one bar to another,with same problems present. Only one table in town has anything close to "fast" cloth,an oversized 8' bar box that has signifigant rolloff on BOTH sides ,with a high spot right down the middle.
The old men's poolroom is just that,a place for guys to hide from the wife and drink.
The tables were recovered for the first time in 5 years by a guy that had never done one,let alone 3 simply because he only charged a case of beer per table for labor. You can guess how that went.
The balls are handed to you in the Aramith cardboard box they came in,no proper ball trays.
People would rather drink than play,and the owner would rather sell beer than have the tables fixed properly.
I feel like I'm the only person around that doesn't like the current state of pool,unfortunately I can't change it at the moment.
So yes,the drunks and just regular beer drinkers do rule around here,because if they complain,things get done. Tommy D.
In my little area,the only 2 places you can play pool without the primary diversion being beer or liquor are the bowling alley,and a skating rink.
Even the bowling alley sells beer and maybe mixed drinks,but that section is thankfully 21 and over with required ID.
The tables there are typically shoddy bar tables with slow cloth,sub-standard cue balls,and mismatched ball sets.
The bars are for the most part the same way. There for a while,they were all covered in something close,but not necessarily Simonis,good and fast,and most had good Valley or Dynamo cue balls.
Now,we're back to slow cloth,cheap cue balls,and rails that aren't recovered on the spot. Instead,they are recovered someplace else,and brought in,swapped out,and poorly in some cases. I've seen rails move from one bar to another,with same problems present. Only one table in town has anything close to "fast" cloth,an oversized 8' bar box that has signifigant rolloff on BOTH sides ,with a high spot right down the middle.
The old men's poolroom is just that,a place for guys to hide from the wife and drink.
The tables were recovered for the first time in 5 years by a guy that had never done one,let alone 3 simply because he only charged a case of beer per table for labor. You can guess how that went.
The balls are handed to you in the Aramith cardboard box they came in,no proper ball trays.
People would rather drink than play,and the owner would rather sell beer than have the tables fixed properly.
I feel like I'm the only person around that doesn't like the current state of pool,unfortunately I can't change it at the moment.
So yes,the drunks and just regular beer drinkers do rule around here,because if they complain,things get done. Tommy D.
Luckily I RARLY have that problem, but of course not... I guess I should have clarified my point of contention with the original poster. Yes, I do agree that it will ultimately be a dead end for a business if you let that kind of crap take place, AND sort of cater to it, but I just assumed that goes without saying.. My main point was that in order to stay in business (and that means make a PROFIT, not just keeping the lights on and doors open), you/we/I need those people/players who drink and play the jukebox (and yes, loud if need be)... I can't stand the old school guy that comes in my place expecting a library atmosphere. As soon as I see that guy complaining about how loud the jukebox is or what type of music is playing, I immediately turn it up just irritate them more. If you don't like it, get out and go somewhere else... If everyone else in my place agreed with you, Id say you had a point and do what was necessary to keep butts in the seats, but they don't. So I (wholeheartedly) side with the majority who spend money...
Be smart and have speakers that turn off over the better tables.
Pangit
Banned
I moved from Angeles City to Subic City in 2008. The League "Scene" was out of control. This MAD red headed Aussie "Shelia" controlled everything???
"Behind the Line 8 Ball" Have to make an honest attempt to pot a ball???? "Who's gonna decide what an honest attempt is"? A well played snooker isn't allowed?
Subic Bay NS closed and all these bars were accustomed to the DOD fueled pockets of Sailor's. Then a "GIRL' rule. All girl team ok, all guy team , not ok?? Who's spending money??
You have a team full of expats with money to spend, buying ladies drinks. Or would U rather have a team full girls drinking two mineral water's during a match??? Do the math.
"Behind the Line 8 Ball" Have to make an honest attempt to pot a ball???? "Who's gonna decide what an honest attempt is"? A well played snooker isn't allowed?
Subic Bay NS closed and all these bars were accustomed to the DOD fueled pockets of Sailor's. Then a "GIRL' rule. All girl team ok, all guy team , not ok?? Who's spending money??
You have a team full of expats with money to spend, buying ladies drinks. Or would U rather have a team full girls drinking two mineral water's during a match??? Do the math.
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I like this guy. I would love to play in your hall.
In my home room during the day, I would get free pool, really strong drinks, and the remote for the Jukebox. You cant beat that. I guess it didnt hurt I was banging the bar tender...and a couple of the waitresses.
You got that right, atleast that's the way it is in most Bars that I've ever been in.
Rusty Lock
David Harcroiw
Our team is a drinking team. Most are young guys who I can't possibly keep up with. We come early, stay late, and drink and mostly win.
So, it was with great surprise that we were "fired" from a bar last year because "we didn't drink enough"!!! Here we won first place, brought others with us to the bar, had a blast with all the other patrons, put up with the crap service (NEVER had the barkeep come out to the table and ask for order), etc. etc. drank like fish, and WE get fired for not drinking enough??!!
Stupid bar owner. Very stupid. I hope her Mondays are thriving.
Our new bar is very happy with us. Pool exist along with drinking here...both have to to survive.
Jeff Livingston
Well if I want to play pool in a nice place I'll go to a high class pool room, if I want to gamble and make some money on a pool game I'll go to a bar with loud ass music and hopefully get a game with an upty do class guy for about $50 a game and hopefully a fist fight breaks out about two tables over, or maybe someone throws a pool ball against the wall because they missed a shot, this upty do class guy won't be able to make a damn ball worrying that he may get hit next and I empty his wallet!:smile:
Rusty Lock
David Harcrow
macguy:
Just wanted to commend you on a great post -- especially the bolded part above.
Let me explain. From my AZB profile, one can see that I live in Carmel, NY, which, give or take, is about 90 minutes north of Manhattan (NYC). I'm sure I don't have to explain the NYC (Manhattan, specifically) pool scene, as it's been covered on these boards (see any thread about the Rack Starz). It's probably one of the few areas in the country where a properly-run pool room does well -- really well. I think anyone thinking about opening a pool room would *LOVE* to envision it doing as well as Amsterdam or Society Billiards.
Most other areas outside of the Manhattan pool crucible are doing so-so, maybe ok, but not great. There's a really classic old-school pool room near me in Brewster, NY, called Jack N Jills Billiard Cafe. Anyone familiar with the old-school pool room "feel" would immediately feel comfortable in this room. They've been in business since the mid-1960s, have the memorabilia on the walls to prove it, and are furnished almost entirely with Gold Crown 1s (yes, GC-*one*!). They've remained open because they've adapted to the changing social conditions in the town of Brewster -- in other words, they've adapted to their changing clientele. However, if you ask the owner about business, you'll get a somewhat glum reply that it could be better. But I think he's doing ok, considering it could be far worse.
Next, let's look at two exceptions to the general "rule" that pool rooms are in the toilet -- Danbury, CT and nearby New Milford, CT. The two pool rooms there -- Danbury Billiards and Fast Eddies Billiard Cafe respectively -- are doing GREAT! What's interesting, is that these two rooms are very different -- different motifs completely -- yet they are both successful. Danbury Billiards is more like a night club with pool tables (all Gold Crown IIIs), full bar and full restaurant, dance floor, juke box, DJs some nights, etc. However, if you go in there any evening -- almost any day of the week -- and you'll find a waiting list for the tables.
Fast Eddies, on the other hand, is a classic pool room that caters to the serious player, yet at the same time offers other amenities to help bring in business. They have a somewhat full bar (incredible beer selection, some liquor, and they can make a decent assortment of cocktails), limited food (the typical fare like pizza, hot dogs, burgers, lasagna sometimes, etc.), and your typical amenities. However, the owner -- Eddie Locke -- is an ex road player with a lot of experience under his belt, yet with an open mind. He took over the old "Busters Billiards and Amusements" (an arcade with pool tables) and turned it into a genuine pool room that any serious player would feel immediately comfortable walking into. Additionally, to bring in business, he got rid of the arcade machines, and put in a full-fledged darts area (with leagues that come in twice a week), a dedicated area for local and name bands to play in (as well as to hold special events), and hired some very forward-thinking people to help him. This crew has been known to walk outside to the nearby industrial area, and invite some of the hard-working truck drivers and businesses, as well as any construction crews that happen to be working in the area, to come in after their shift ends and have a drink on the house. Next thing you know, you have some "recognizable" faces coming in from that gesture, with more new faces in tow, and they're coming in to grab a table as a new customer.
Fast Eddies is also doing great, as this article describes:
What's my point in describing these two rooms? Simple -- its success is all in how it's run. If one acts up in any of these rooms -- no matter how much they spend -- they are politely asked to leave. The funny thing is, the few times I've seen this -- someone gets thrown out -- that person is back some weeks later, a much better-behaved customer.
To Donny L. -- you don't have to let boisterous drunks run (or shall I insert a vowel in there to say "ruin") your room. And anyone that thinks boisterous drunks are their "bread and butter" won't be in business long. You have to cater to a *wide* range of customers; not just a focused few.
-Sean
macguy:
Just wanted to commend you on a great post -- especially the bolded part above.
Let me explain. From my AZB profile, one can see that I live in Carmel, NY, which, give or take, is about 90 minutes north of Manhattan (NYC). I'm sure I don't have to explain the NYC (Manhattan, specifically) pool scene, as it's been covered on these boards (see any thread about the Rack Starz). It's probably one of the few areas in the country where a properly-run pool room does well -- really well. I think anyone thinking about opening a pool room would *LOVE* to envision it doing as well as Amsterdam or Society Billiards.
Most other areas outside of the Manhattan pool crucible are doing so-so, maybe ok, but not great. There's a really classic old-school pool room near me in Brewster, NY, called Jack N Jills Billiard Cafe. Anyone familiar with the old-school pool room "feel" would immediately feel comfortable in this room. They've been in business since the mid-1960s, have the memorabilia on the walls to prove it, and are furnished almost entirely with Gold Crown 1s (yes, GC-*one*!). They've remained open because they've adapted to the changing social conditions in the town of Brewster -- in other words, they've adapted to their changing clientele. However, if you ask the owner about business, you'll get a somewhat glum reply that it could be better. But I think he's doing ok, considering it could be far worse.
Next, let's look at two exceptions to the general "rule" that pool rooms are in the toilet -- Danbury, CT and nearby New Milford, CT. The two pool rooms there -- Danbury Billiards and Fast Eddies Billiard Cafe respectively -- are doing GREAT! What's interesting, is that these two rooms are very different -- different motifs completely -- yet they are both successful. Danbury Billiards is more like a night club with pool tables (all Gold Crown IIIs), full bar and full restaurant, dance floor, juke box, DJs some nights, etc. However, if you go in there any evening -- almost any day of the week -- and you'll find a waiting list for the tables.
Fast Eddies, on the other hand, is a classic pool room that caters to the serious player, yet at the same time offers other amenities to help bring in business. They have a somewhat full bar (incredible beer selection, some liquor, and they can make a decent assortment of cocktails), limited food (the typical fare like pizza, hot dogs, burgers, lasagna sometimes, etc.), and your typical amenities. However, the owner -- Eddie Locke -- is an ex road player with a lot of experience under his belt, yet with an open mind. He took over the old "Busters Billiards and Amusements" (an arcade with pool tables) and turned it into a genuine pool room that any serious player would feel immediately comfortable walking into. Additionally, to bring in business, he got rid of the arcade machines, and put in a full-fledged darts area (with leagues that come in twice a week), a dedicated area for local and name bands to play in (as well as to hold special events), and hired some very forward-thinking people to help him. This crew has been known to walk outside to the nearby industrial area, and invite some of the hard-working truck drivers and businesses, as well as any construction crews that happen to be working in the area, to come in after their shift ends and have a drink on the house. Next thing you know, you have some "recognizable" faces coming in from that gesture, with more new faces in tow, and they're coming in to grab a table as a new customer.
Fast Eddies is also doing great, as this article describes:
What's my point in describing these two rooms? Simple -- its success is all in how it's run. If one acts up in any of these rooms -- no matter how much they spend -- they are politely asked to leave. The funny thing is, the few times I've seen this -- someone gets thrown out -- that person is back some weeks later, a much better-behaved customer.
To Donny L. -- you don't have to let boisterous drunks run (or shall I insert a vowel in there to say "ruin") your room. And anyone that thinks boisterous drunks are their "bread and butter" won't be in business long. You have to cater to a *wide* range of customers; not just a focused few.
-Sean
Jack and Jills did adapt but it wasn't by choice. He tried to open a restaurant there for the original Brewster people and failed miserably. Then he was more or less forced to bring in a Spanish crew and voila, BIG SUCCESS. He makes 4 times what he made before ANY restaurant. They sometimes have 6 people working on the restaurant side! I give Steve credit though, he soon learned where his bread was buttered and did some real nice things for his clientele.
PS_ didnt know Ed Lock bought Busters. I bought my first TS sneaky from him for $115! Glad he is doing well.
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I think you have the cart before the horse. The atmosphere or theme will be what the owner creates and those customers who like that atmosphere and concept will be who the business attracts.
The customer does not really dictate what the business will be, the business aims at a certain customer. Now it would be stupid to open an Irish pub in china town but in general you open a business with an idea of what you want to create, the clientele you want to attract and the kind of business you want to own and you will attract like minded customers. In fact you may even attract no so like minded customers who discover they like what you are doing.
Now a failing business may cave to doing things they don't really want to do just to survive, but the business owner sets the agenda. You are not a hostage of your customer. As long as you have a solid viable business plan that is appealing, you will have customers.
Will you satisfied everybody, no, they will just have to go somewhere else or enjoy what it is they do like about your place. The saying "you can't please everyone" is true. No matter what you do someone will find fault.
"To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day".
William Shakespeare ...
It is your business and it will be what "You" choose it to be. That is why people choose the different businesses they go into. They can't dread everyday they have to open the doors, there needs to be more reward then just money. You can't let fair whether, here today gone tomorrow people, who in reality care nothing about you or your business destroy, your dream.
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Disagree
I agree that these things are annoying to deal with and can make people feel unsafe. However, I own my own business and the ONLY thing that matters to me is the $$$$. I bolded two points I disagree with (I agree as a pool player but not a business owner) you calling them lame and being mad he is catering to people who HE FEELS pays his bills.
I've never owned a pool hall so I can't tell ya if he's doing it "right" but it's his business, his money, his livelihood and I don't think anyone has the right to tell him how he should operate his business/livelihood.
I think ALL poolplayers should try and do a better job spending our money there so their best customers aren't the drunks. I make an effort, unfortunately not always but, to try and eat there if they offer food, have a few beers, drink soda (not water cause it's free except Hanks).
I agree that these things are annoying to deal with and can make people feel unsafe. However, I own my own business and the ONLY thing that matters to me is the $$$$. I bolded two points I disagree with (I agree as a pool player but not a business owner) you calling them lame and being mad he is catering to people who HE FEELS pays his bills.
I've never owned a pool hall so I can't tell ya if he's doing it "right" but it's his business, his money, his livelihood and I don't think anyone has the right to tell him how he should operate his business/livelihood.
I think ALL poolplayers should try and do a better job spending our money there so their best customers aren't the drunks. I make an effort, unfortunately not always but, to try and eat there if they offer food, have a few beers, drink soda (not water cause it's free except Hanks).
I've been self-employed in the billiard industry for over 20 years. I'm not rich. I pay my bills. I survive. Never in a million years would I sell out for money. NEVER. I have had opportunities to do so but I never would.
I do not respect anyone who says they only care about the money. That's what ruins industries, including our billiard industry. It lowers the bar of respectability. Once that happens, the entire industry suffers and we all pay the price.
Good post. I myself just try to choose wisely where I play. Luckily there are a few bars where there is usually never any serious troublemakers, cause there are no pool halls close to me which sucks obviously. Only problem is, I can't choose where to play in league when we are the away team, but I love to play too much not to go play anyway.
Not sure where to start, I'm not particularly worried if you don't respect me or my opinions but my company/job are a means to an end. I want to retire early and moreover want my wife to retire MUCH earlier, travel, and do things we enjoy doing.
I own a trucking company and I don't mind the work but I definitely don't love it and maybe you love what you do and therefor don't worry about money or "selling out" but I'm not ashamed of doing everything I legally/morally can to get ahead and people who think they know (not you but back to OP) how I should run my business or what I should be doing is going to fall on deaf ears.
If you were referring to OP in the "selling out" then no comment, but if you were referring to me I'm unsure how you could even make that statement. I'll help you though, I would "sell out" if it meant my family was taken care of. I'm not too proud to admit they are more important than anything anyone could ever say about me or my character. EVER.
That one threw me but there are exactly three people here who repeatedly accuse me of having a reading comprehension problem.
I thought the math was so obvious that I didn't need to spell it out...but apparently not...so here it is:
7 foot table with 4 foot clearance on all four sides
7 + 4 + 4 = 15
4 + 4+ 4 = 12
15 x 12 = 180 square feet
I guess you could assume that you don't need any clearance around the table, in which case you're only taking up 28 square feet, but I doubt many people would want to play in that pool hall.