I could get used to an LD shaft, I just don't want to.
The best statement in the thread imo. Maple shaft with an ivory ferrule is the best hit you can get imo.
I could get used to an LD shaft, I just don't want to.
Lou I believe the point he was trying to make is that if someone plays with an ivory ferrule today, it is because they *chose* that out of all the other options available. There were no specifically LD shafts back in Mosconi's day (or the day of any of the others you mentioned). Therefore, they most likely didn't select their ivory ferrule based on its deflection characteristics. It was more likely because it was "nice", or because it hit solid.
I understood the OP's post to mean "given all the LD options today, are there any pros using ivory ferrules, which are very high deflection?"
KMRUNOUT
Me and my friend who is also here on az had discussion the other night about high deflection shafts and especially heavy ivory ferrules that deflect like crazy.
I personally cannot make a ball with fat high deflection shafts eventhough I like the feel of them. I started from snooker so all my shafts are thin and either LD or just around 12 mm to deflect less.
I had 12.3 mm old growth mottey shaft and actually could play with it(regret selling it now)
My question is, who plays with ivory from top players. I know pretty much all of them have contracts and play with LD shafts.
Is it because of contracts or they too cannot play well with high deflection shafts?
I will use just about any ferrule material EXCEPT for ivory.....it's very difficult to control....I don't even like ivory joint material....it makes the cue ball go crazy on some shots.....the BludWorth Cue I use originally had ivory joint and ferrule - I used it for one day and sent it back to Leonard and he changed it right away....it came back as one of the best hitting cues I've ever played with.....I still use it today and that was 23 years ago.
Play Well.....'The Game is the Teacher'
I will use just about any ferrule material EXCEPT for ivory.....it's very difficult to control....I don't even like ivory joint material....it makes the cue ball go crazy on some shots.....the BludWorth Cue I use originally had ivory joint and ferrule - I used it for one day and sent it back to Leonard and he changed it right away....it came back as one of the best hitting cues I've ever played with.....I still use it today and that was 23 years ago.
Play Well.....'The Game is the Teacher'
so what pro's today use ivory ferrules? I cant think of one......
Ivory ferrules are generally found on the shafts of higher-end cues.
I suppose you would get a similar answer if you asked how many top players played with cues that cost above the $3000 mark.
I don't really think it matters what a top player uses, high or low deflection. They can adapt to anything and make small adjustments in their game better than the rest. Not saying I'm a top player but I've been using ivory ferrules for over a decade and I'll miss a wide angled inside english 3-rail position shot by almost a diamond with an LD shaft because I'm not used to aiming without compensating. I could get used to an LD shaft, I just don't want to.
Probably because that's what he's selling. I like the hit of his ferrule-less shafts better than his ferruled shafts but to me the hit of my ivory ferruled Ginacue shaft is far superior than either of them. It's all subjective.
Actually he will give you any shaft you want ,,
I hit his shafts all of the hit several Gina cues also neither play as good for me as a Predator shaft I'm long past the learning curb of playing with less deflection ,, I wouldn't even dream of playing with a reg shaft with or with out a ivory ferrule
Just like I don't play with a persimmon driver or flat blade forged irons with a sweet spot the size of a ant ,, I gave way to better equipment
I just got a Searing shaft which has an ivory ferrule and I don't know about deflection but it plays lights out.
I highly doubt you or anyone else would be able to tell if they had an ivory jointed cue if they didn't already know it.
True dat.
We used to talk about this on RSB over 10 years ago: tip-CB contact time, the impulse speed of maple, how the sound/energy wave traverses the stick. Anywhos, here is what is probably the most pertinent post from that era:
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John McChesney
6/14/99
Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules
covered with masking tape...then numbered.
No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a
Pete), nor detect by the style of ferrule.
We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.
The results:
Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong
about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times.
A top pro (Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition
and the cue he liked the most during the attempts:
He thought was surely a Meucci, plastic joint when in reality it was an
older Adams with a piloted steel joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he
shot with as a cue with a steel joint.
Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may sound
differently; may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ?
Doesn't "hit" have to do with all the senses:
Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc.
What is a "soft" hit? What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not
the sound the cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in the butt?)
Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound?
A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound?
I maintain that the primary criteria that differentiates one cue from
another begins with:
>The tip (soft, med or hard)
>The shaft diameter and density of the wood
>The taper (or stiffness of the shaft)
To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the
reaction of the cue ball off the shaft, rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing on how a cue plays than anything else.
Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is located
at the tip, inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not the joint or butt.
In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players liked best:
Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different
numbers:
When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints,
(one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13
1/4mm and tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By the way, the 55 who liked the hit of these two cues:
more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
#####
Lou Figueroa
RSB was the Teacher
Who would have thought that simply putting masking tape on a wood joint cue would make it hit like a steel joint?
The feel of the hit is what's subjective , how it hits has nothing to do with how it plays ,,, The only time a ivory farrule shaft will play as good as a LD shaft is with dead center ballWhen I said that's what he's selling I meant those are the shafts he pushes and likes best. Of course I didn't mean he won't sell you a shaft with a ferrule on it.
Like I said, it's all subjective. I wouldn't dream of playing with a Predator shaft. They have a dead hit to me and I feel like they are a bunch of B-Grade shafts cut up and glued together.
I don't quite understand this analogy. Forged irons are inferior?? You do know that most pro golfers prefer a smaller clubhead and many use forged irons because they offer much more precision, feel, and workability than a cavity-back club the size of a hockey stick right?
How would an ivory joint affect deflection?
I'm not sure, it would seem that it effects the flex of the cue. The only important thing I know it I won't play with an ivory jointed cue ever again......that's about as much as I need to know. 'My Game is the Teacher'
More flex = less deflection ..... Ivory would have more flex than steel. Your theory doesn't add up lol. Unless I'm missing something here.
A couple years back I was having a discussion with Django about shafts, tapers and ferrules. No LD or short ferrules for him, he just likes a regular 1" ferrule, Ivory or an alternative with similar characteristics.