Do lessons really help?
- Thread starter ForumGhost516
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av84fun said:
Well, the fundamental difference between myself and Tony is that I'm not a professional instructor. He is. He does it for a living and he's very good at it. Me? if I teach, it's because at that moment, I want to teach. If I think you're wasting my time, that's it. No more.
av84fun said:
Nevertheless almost all of the top pool players in the world today did not get to the top due to formal lessons. They got there through playing huge amounts of pool and a large amount of natural skill. They learned things via watching what the others players are doing. They learned how to shoot various shot in the non-formal communication amoungst peers while in the pool hall. Alot of the top players in the world show what would be construed as "flaws" in their stroke and yet they rose to the top of the game, Keith would be a prime example. If you look at Strickland compared to Archer compared to Sigel compared to Hall compared to .... you realize there is no certain prime way to stroke the cue that means success. Would McCready been a better player with a more traditional stroke then he was? It would be hard to imagine since he was at the top and beating other top pro's with supposed more "traditional" strokes.
The proof is in the pudding as they say. The large majoritty (and I mean huge) of top players in the world got there without formal lessons. They got there with matching up and playing alot of pool and picking up bits from here and there through their lives. If I want to learn something about a specific part of the game I am going to get it through simply watching other players and testing various stuff to see what works for me. That is the way almost all the good players in this world got to where they are.
Maybe my point of view is slanted because I have been a public school teacher for 30 years. I firmly believe that if a person is willing to practice what he learns he will benefit greatly. Tony comes with a great rep.You are not likely to go wrong with him. I went to pool school last summer with Randyg and Scott lee. I went from a 4 in the apa to a 6 within a couple of months. I firmly believe that they helped fix some flaws in my stroke that made the difference. I feel you need someone who will not only teach you what you want to learn but also point out some problems he sees.
I think it is difficult to gauge an amature, even a serious one, with the accomplishments of a pro. My observations are that anyone to reaches the pinnicle of any professional sport is a unique person. No matter how much a 270 hitter practices he is not likely to turn into a 310 hitter. Very few people will ever , no matter how much he practices, ever run 100 balls, or pocket balls like an Earl Strickland. People like that are just blessed with amazing talent.
My advice, take some lessons. Not just one, but several. You will be suprised what you don't know. Then practice what they teach you. Good luck.
I think it is difficult to gauge an amature, even a serious one, with the accomplishments of a pro. My observations are that anyone to reaches the pinnicle of any professional sport is a unique person. No matter how much a 270 hitter practices he is not likely to turn into a 310 hitter. Very few people will ever , no matter how much he practices, ever run 100 balls, or pocket balls like an Earl Strickland. People like that are just blessed with amazing talent.
My advice, take some lessons. Not just one, but several. You will be suprised what you don't know. Then practice what they teach you. Good luck.
I also agree...
But by "solid local player" I was talking about someone that COULD teach the proper way to do things, not just any 'ol player that can make a few balls. I completely agree, many top players cannot articulate what they are doing in a way that students can grasp. Then of course you have the side, people that really don't play that good, but can teach very well. IMO
cleary said:
But by "solid local player" I was talking about someone that COULD teach the proper way to do things, not just any 'ol player that can make a few balls. I completely agree, many top players cannot articulate what they are doing in a way that students can grasp. Then of course you have the side, people that really don't play that good, but can teach very well. IMO
Eric Wynne
Banned
Tony would be an excellant choice , great player and exceptional human being... Hard work and the level of competition is the secret to pool... If you play with girls all the time you play like a girl ... Play with champions ...well you get the picture ... Most people don't want to sacrifice what it takes to become great players ... Remember this , it's the spankings that make your ass tough ... Notice how people who didn't get spankings turn out to be ... Well you can form your own opinion but lessons only benefit those who work hard and are dedicated, ... the whole game is you and the white ball , a pro can tell you but you have to do it ... Anything worthwhile you have to suffer for ...
I spoke to tony today and let me tell you he is probably one of the nicest people i have spoken to pool or otherwise in quite some time. i will be starting up in june after the predator pool school and another event he will be at and i am looking forward to it. As for the patience aspect i am more than understanding of the fact that you have to be willing to relearn the basics and in truth i look forward to my many flaws being corrected. i have no problem taking his advice. people who expect to be pros after three lessons simply dont get it, that is why in my opinion most diets fail after the first week people didnt lose liek fifty pounds so they stop. I think i will keep a diary of the sessions and post my progress here on the forum give people an idea of how things are progerssing. To all who have replied i thank you for your knowledge and insight.
Celtic said:
I hear what you are saying but there are a couple of points you are missing IMHO.
You wrote "formal lessons" but in real life, there is not much of a distinction between a "lesson" acquired by playing some casual matches or small sets with Tony Robles and taking a "formal lesson" with him.
The huge majority of the huge majority of top pros you referred to were fortunate enough to in many cases, literally grow up in rooms where championship pool was being played.
Many refer to the fact that Mosconi "never had a formal lesson" but that is a half truth that amounts to a falsehood. All Willie did was to travel for YEARS and play THOUSANDS of exhibition matches with none other than Ralf Greenleaf, who many think was the best player who ever lived.
So, LESSONS where given to Willie at the highest possible level, just by watching. I also refuse to believe that in the tens of thousands of road miles they put on together that Ralf was so closed mouthed that he never gave Willie a single tip. Even if Willie said that, I would not believe it.
As for the non-standard mechanics used by some pros, I couldn't agree with you more that no teacher in his right mind would watch Keith on a good day and say a WORD about his sidearm stroke. Just as no one would say anything to Trevino or Furyk.
But the fact of the matter is that the huge majority of aspiring pool players have virtually ZERO access to playing with top touring pros and so taking lessons with great teachers is not only their best option...it is their ONLY option.
Furthermore, unless you have studied the careers of today's top pros much more thoroughly than I have, it is hard to accept that you would have actual case histories regarding the frequency and type of "lessons" that they might have had.
I would hazard a guess...and it is not much more than that, that the majority of top pros have close friends who are their peers and who practice together and share knowledge almost constantly.
Every one of them that I know...and there are quite a few...do exactly what I stated above.
Finally, I asked Stan Shuffet on this very forum a while back what he things Landon's speed might be if he didn't have a BCA instructor (or the equivalent) as a father. Stan responded that his speed would be near zero.
That may have been an overstatement to make a point or it could have meant that Stan doubts that Landon would have dedicated himself so totally without constant parental guidance but the point is the point nevertheless and was meant to suggest that if Landon didn't have constant high level instruction...his own pool table and could only have learned the game in smokey pool rooms he wouldn't be the player he is.
Regards,
Jim
Joel...You get the lion's share of the credit for your improvement. EVERY time we have been together, you have come to the lesson with specific questions and goals...WRITTEN DOWN. We addressed together, each issue, and came to a solution to the problem. However, you're the one who put in the time and effort to practice those solutions, until they became easily overcome! Your progress from last June to now is, without being understated, simply excellent!...and you're gonna love the Xpert Class in June, with Randyg. Congratulations, and kudos to you, my friend! 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
kaznj said:
I had my lesson with Tony Robles just a few hours ago. He is, like his friend Mr. Diamond would say, ACES!!! Aside from just helping to build your confidence and being just so inspirational, his appoach to teaching fundamentals is just 'rock solid'. I just recently aquired what we call a 'stroke'. Tony, told me it would come in time and he was right. He mentioned how my hard work is paying off and how it would get so much better. Tony, in my opinion, would be a great investment for you. He was for me and continues to be. Tony Robles is a GREAT coach and a FANTASTIC human being. Viva TONY ROBLES!ForumGhost516 said:
Tony Robles, Mark Wilson, Scott Lee and Randy G. I'd add Jerry Breisath to this list as well. If you can't learn something from these guys, you just weren't paying attention.
Now if you want to learn something about One Pocket strategies, from basic to advanced, I know just the guy in Southern Cal to help you.
Now if you want to learn something about One Pocket strategies, from basic to advanced, I know just the guy in Southern Cal to help you.
