Most people learn very well from watching other people do something...I know I do. Johnnyt
Do Most "B" and up Players Need Drills?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
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Most people learn very well from watching other people do something...I know I do. Johnnyt
I concur. My point is that after you've observed, asked questions and received answers, you still have to put in the time to practice execution. Practice is simply more productive than trying to do this in a game. Gambling can ratchet up the pressure, but it's not going to best your greatest asset, which is time.
Practice is essential but for me after practicing for a while I find I just start banging balls around and I need the competition. Maybe it's ADD?
I do too. I'm sorry I responded sideways to your thread and criticized you yesterday. I can be an asshole but I'm not a dick that can't admit when I'm wrong.
I fully understand the importance of matching up with better players and gambling. I do both as frequently as possible. But do you have any idea how hard it is to get a money game these days? That itself can be insurmountable. Oh sure, the monsters are always ready, willing and able. But that's an awful expensive route to go. The ghost can be just as ruthless and far more affordable...as long as you can keep from breaking your cue.
I do too. I'm sorry I responded sideways to your thread and criticized you yesterday. I can be an asshole but I'm not a dick that can't admit when I'm wrong.
I fully understand the importance of matching up with better players and gambling. I do both as frequently as possible. But do you have any idea how hard it is to get a money game these days? That itself can be insurmountable. Oh sure, the monsters are always ready, willing and able. But that's an awful expensive route to go. The ghost can be just as ruthless and far more affordable...as long as you can keep from breaking your cue.
Find another room or ask for weight.
Many people feel you have to practice at burnout levels. That's actually counter productive to how our brains work. Try this: If you have a shot that gives you problems, set it and do it just 10 times. You'll have a small number of times to get it right and probably won't start getting satisfactory results until at least half way through. Then stop. The idea is to not practice over and over and over, but to execute perfection with as little chances possible. This will cause you to focus entirely right out of the gate, and should leave you hungry for more when you finish.
Just a suggestion...
Ever spend much time in a heavily populated metropolis area? Just getting 15 miles further down the highway can cost you an hour. And all the weight in the world doesn't help much when you're sitting in your chair. LOL. Appreciate the advice...
I compete against players all the time that I know if I miss I will not get back up in a game of rotation. But that is the type of competition I like. Even if you lose look how much you have learned by watching them and if they agreed to play you they wouldn't mind if you asked them a few questions. I find when you get friendly with top players they don't mind imparting their knowledge. Surely you can make some sort of game with these guys even if they have to play one handed and I'm also sure not everybody in the room is an A+ player.
The practice that works best for me is playing the ghost. I start with the three ball ghost and then move to 4 ball then 5 ball then 6 ball etc. Even then I can only practice for so long and then I want to paly someone. Just me.
I'd bet my life that top Golf & Tennis players practice drills on any number of specific shots they need in the bag so to speak.
Yes they get paid A LOT of money but regardless of the cash proper training what's needed to be the best at their sport.
He in America there is not enough cash in pool to be a motivating factor for players to properly train to be the best.
Why does SVB have the best break in pool? He put the time and effort into working on his break and it paid off.
He openly credits the "BreakRak" training tool for his break. Sounds like Drilling to me..................
I am not SVB and it is not one of my goals to be a touring pro. I play a nice game and I keep improving. I am a very firm believer in that if you do not like something you will not get better and I detest drills. I do practice though. By the way I have seen Shane and other pros. They stop in my poolroom from time to time and I have never seen them do a drill. They practice but have never seen them do a drill in preparation for a match. That is not to say they don't do drills at some time or other. For me drills don't work. Just me. That being said, do all of the drills you want. I would never tell you it was wrong or right for you.
Ralph Eckert and the IPAT testing for the German national team is built around drills.
Thorsten Hohmann is a huge believer in that and on the DVDs he demonstrates them all.
If anyone is bored of drills, just take the IPAT level 1 test, then do the drills and take the test again..two things I discovered...
1. How much drills can help you improve
2. The amount of pressure you can put yourself under while testing.
Eckert has 10 standard shots.
If you can't make them each six in a row on a standard nine foot table, you don't advance.
The euros are built around drills, and their handling under pressure in recent mosconi cups is evident of that.
Mark Wilson's book is based on drills as the foundation for improvement. He preaches that at Lindenwood university and is trying to steer team USA mentality into that system.
Thorsten Hohmann is a huge believer in that and on the DVDs he demonstrates them all.
If anyone is bored of drills, just take the IPAT level 1 test, then do the drills and take the test again..two things I discovered...
1. How much drills can help you improve
2. The amount of pressure you can put yourself under while testing.
Eckert has 10 standard shots.
If you can't make them each six in a row on a standard nine foot table, you don't advance.
The euros are built around drills, and their handling under pressure in recent mosconi cups is evident of that.
Mark Wilson's book is based on drills as the foundation for improvement. He preaches that at Lindenwood university and is trying to steer team USA mentality into that system.
I do too. I'm sorry I responded sideways to your thread and criticized you yesterday. I can be an asshole but I'm not a dick that can't admit when I'm wrong.
I fully understand the importance of matching up with better players and gambling. I do both as frequently as possible. But do you have any idea how hard it is to get a money game these days? That itself can be insurmountable. Oh sure, the monsters are always ready, willing and able. But that's an awful expensive route to go. The ghost can be just as ruthless and far more affordable...as long as you can keep from breaking your cue.
You're not an asshole for stating your opinion. I don't have thin skin either. Your OK with me. Johnnyt
shane just practices 10 hours a day and earl was at the height of his career then. you don't have to be snarky.
I wonder if the drills vs. competition ideas are age-related. When I first played pool in 1967 at the age of 16, no one had ever heard of drills, at least at Frank's Pool Hall. Again in the late 70's when I was playing a lot of BCA and at the national championships at the old Hotel Texas no one did drills - except for Frank 'Bird' Thompson, a rising young Fort Worth player who unfortunately died too young. Frank would place a coin near the center of the table, then shoot any OB into a pocket with the intention of bringing his CB into contact with the coin when the CB stopped rolling.
Somewhere along the way drills became popular, probably as a result of BCA instructor certification. Those who learned to play by going to the pool hall six or seven days a week and getting in as many hours of table time as possible did not (by that time) need drills.
Nowadays, hardly anyone starts out in playing pool with that almost obsessive-compulsive need to hang out at the pool hall and play pool every hour of every day and improve and beat all comers. Those without that obsessive-compulsive pool habit are the guys who benefit from pool drills most - it just recreates the long hours in the pool room but in a condensed time frame.
Somewhere along the way drills became popular, probably as a result of BCA instructor certification. Those who learned to play by going to the pool hall six or seven days a week and getting in as many hours of table time as possible did not (by that time) need drills.
Nowadays, hardly anyone starts out in playing pool with that almost obsessive-compulsive need to hang out at the pool hall and play pool every hour of every day and improve and beat all comers. Those without that obsessive-compulsive pool habit are the guys who benefit from pool drills most - it just recreates the long hours in the pool room but in a condensed time frame.
Another key element to skill acquisition is feedback. When you are developing a skill, you need to learn what actions cause a particular effect. For example, when you are learning to aim, if you miss to the left then you know that next time you need to aim a bit more to the right.
Feedback requires attention, not just haphazardly trying to runout rack after rack, but a deliberate setup and evaluation of each action. Playing under pressure is great for making you pay attention to what you're doing.
Drills provide an excellent feedback mechanism because you shoot the same or similar shot over and over. This allows you to really master that shot and develop skills more rapidly than just playing. But this really only works if you are paying attention.
Feedback requires attention, not just haphazardly trying to runout rack after rack, but a deliberate setup and evaluation of each action. Playing under pressure is great for making you pay attention to what you're doing.
Drills provide an excellent feedback mechanism because you shoot the same or similar shot over and over. This allows you to really master that shot and develop skills more rapidly than just playing. But this really only works if you are paying attention.
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I, like most folks on here commenting on this thread, wasn't a big fan of drills or believed in them. I played for almost 30 years and rarely tried one (and then, only out of curiosity). When I was living in Cyprus, a pool room owner (and about A to Shortstop speed) convinced me to humor him and just spend one hour shooting the L drill (big L with 15 balls two diamonds by two diamonds and little L, 8 balls one by one diamond, all into the same corner pocket, no disturbing any other balls, in order, or you start over). It was a dare, so I did it, with less than satisfactory results...then he said go ahead and shoot a full rack of rotation...and the difference was immediate and total. I couldn't understand how shooting all those finesse shots would help me in hitting long straight in stroke shots or other firm strokes, but it did. My CB was on a string and I couldn't miss. I realized that drills force you to perform to a very precise standard, repetitively. It tightens everything up and doesn't forgive laziness. Just running racks or loose balls allows you to forgive/forget your misses and mistakes, and allows bad form to creep into your muscle memory--the memory you rely on in competition. You could play like crap, but your brain will tell itself you had a strong session and were in stroke...because we train ourselves to forget our misses and play through.
I don't do drills often, but when I find myself knocking the rails off the table, I'll stop what I'm doing and set up something just to tighten me up. It doesn't matter what the drill is, so long as you make the rules unforgiving and start over if you screw it up...line up 15 balls corner to opposite diagonal corner in a straight line, take ball in hand and knock them all in without disturbing another ball or hitting a rail with anything. You might be surprised at how well just doing it once warms you back up.
I don't do drills often, but when I find myself knocking the rails off the table, I'll stop what I'm doing and set up something just to tighten me up. It doesn't matter what the drill is, so long as you make the rules unforgiving and start over if you screw it up...line up 15 balls corner to opposite diagonal corner in a straight line, take ball in hand and knock them all in without disturbing another ball or hitting a rail with anything. You might be surprised at how well just doing it once warms you back up.
As a fairly new player I've taken the 'drills' approach. On my first day I lined up the balls for the straight shot diagonally across the table and. I missed them all. In fact, I just kept shooting until I pocketed all 15 balls and it took me over a 100 tries!! Yes, I sucked.
But that started a process of trial and error: what if I hold the cue this way, what if I move my feet, what if I change the way I place my head, etc.
A year and a half later, I still do my 'straight-ins' as a warmup everyday. Now I frequently run the rack out and my best so far is 34 in a row. So... I would say that doing this drill has indeed improved my ability, in a way that gambling or just playing with friends would not have. And I’m getting similar results on other drills.
If you take them seriously, drills are really just games that you play alone, and have the benefit of being measurable, so when improvement is made you know it. What I do find boring is just walking around the table firing balls in, that is NOT playing a game, you can’t win, you can’t lose, and you can’t measure your improvement (if any) and yet this is exactly how most people ‘practice.’
Yawn.
Some people like drills, some don’t. Fair enough. But to drill or not to drill, isn’t the question. The question is what is up with the hostility and contempt of the people who don’t like them?
I take a lot of guff for my drilling ways. One guy whose been playing for decades gives me the standard spiel all the time, “Drills are boring, you gotta gamble if you want to get good.”
A year ago he kicked my ass. Last week I beat him, he gave me money, and begrudgingly said, “You’re game has bumped up a few notches.”
I had to agree that it had, and I know, because I can measure it. But his game hadn’t changed at all over the year, and it likely won’t. He’s going to keep doing what he’s been doing, and he’s going to keep getting what he’s been getting – except my money of course.
But that started a process of trial and error: what if I hold the cue this way, what if I move my feet, what if I change the way I place my head, etc.
A year and a half later, I still do my 'straight-ins' as a warmup everyday. Now I frequently run the rack out and my best so far is 34 in a row. So... I would say that doing this drill has indeed improved my ability, in a way that gambling or just playing with friends would not have. And I’m getting similar results on other drills.
If you take them seriously, drills are really just games that you play alone, and have the benefit of being measurable, so when improvement is made you know it. What I do find boring is just walking around the table firing balls in, that is NOT playing a game, you can’t win, you can’t lose, and you can’t measure your improvement (if any) and yet this is exactly how most people ‘practice.’
Yawn.
Some people like drills, some don’t. Fair enough. But to drill or not to drill, isn’t the question. The question is what is up with the hostility and contempt of the people who don’t like them?
I take a lot of guff for my drilling ways. One guy whose been playing for decades gives me the standard spiel all the time, “Drills are boring, you gotta gamble if you want to get good.”
A year ago he kicked my ass. Last week I beat him, he gave me money, and begrudgingly said, “You’re game has bumped up a few notches.”
I had to agree that it had, and I know, because I can measure it. But his game hadn’t changed at all over the year, and it likely won’t. He’s going to keep doing what he’s been doing, and he’s going to keep getting what he’s been getting – except my money of course.
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Drills have multiple values and though you don't see them doing them, I would be willing to bet they do more than they will admit.
Drills show where you need to develop. Drills reenforce good habits and help break bad ones. Drills are good at getting you through a slump. Drills are great warmup sets on tables you are preparing to play matches on.
Any player that wants to improve and be good would be a fool not to spend some of their time doing drills, some of their time running balls alone and even less of their time playing actual matches.
We have our APA LTC tournament this weekend. I assure you I will be there doing drills on a table by myself before it kicks off for 3 reasons. 1.) Get me in the flow and "set my sights" 2.) Get me use to the table (much faster cloth) 3.) Help me determine what my limitations are.
Drills show where you need to develop. Drills reenforce good habits and help break bad ones. Drills are good at getting you through a slump. Drills are great warmup sets on tables you are preparing to play matches on.
Any player that wants to improve and be good would be a fool not to spend some of their time doing drills, some of their time running balls alone and even less of their time playing actual matches.
We have our APA LTC tournament this weekend. I assure you I will be there doing drills on a table by myself before it kicks off for 3 reasons. 1.) Get me in the flow and "set my sights" 2.) Get me use to the table (much faster cloth) 3.) Help me determine what my limitations are.
i picked your post to quote as an example for my comment
for players of lesser skills wanting to improve i beleive drills are a great way to improve for all the reasons you posted above
b players and above for the most part are already proficient in the skills of many drills
so i think for them problem shots or problem patterns are the drills they would do