Do people like SVB improve?

[TATE]

I think they generally hit a peak. Is SVB better now then a few years ago when he ran the 7 pack and 2 6 packs on Alex in the TAR match on the Fatboy rails in 10-ball? I don't think so.

They of course can learn a new thing or two. They might tweak a break, learn a new way to make a kick with a certain bit of English, but they reach a point pretty quickly where 99.9% of their total ability is already there.

They still deal with the highs and lows. They have moments where they are on, and moments when their game is not at the peak. TBH right at this moment I do not think SVB is at his top level given his last few outings. He has not been as dominant as he was in the past and I am not sure the loss of the race to 100 action matches has helped him, those were an awesome way to stay in stroke and keep your confidence up.

One thing to consider is his strongest game is 10 ball (because of his break) and in my opinion he's the best 10 ball player in the world. I don't know if 10 ball will stay popular but the loss of some of these 10 ball tourneys could also be a factor in his results.

 

[Jaden]

It depends...

Do you think top pro's are still improving or are they at their peak and just maintaining their ability?

It's possible for some top players to improve but it's different.

Some top rotation players can be great at shot making and speed control, but finesse spin and consistency with spin could be an issue for them. It's possible for those top players to learn different aspects of the game and to improve.

Most of the time this would happen would be when interdisciplinary training begins. i.e. someone takes up one pocket or 14.1.

This increase in knowledge and ability can trickle down to their top discipline as well, but to laymen, it wouldn't be as apparent because they wouldn't necessarily perform better at that discipline, even though they have gotten better.

You also have to differentiate between skills improving and consistency improving.

Some top players can dominate one tourney and then be mediocre in the next. That is a problem with mental game or consistency. That can always improve for anyone, no matter how good they are.

So, yes, they can improve in both skill level and consistency, although improvinig consistency by the very nature of being a top player will be more common than improving in skill level.

Jaden

 

[Ron Swanson]

I think the top pros do improve. But, the areas where their game improve is more in their heads than in their arms. Their improvement comes more in their mentality and focus from the experience they gain tournament to tournament, and match to match. The mental growth is then gonna carry over to their performance. Even when it appears their physical ability has seemed to plateau or deteriorate with age, their knowledge of the game will always increase. A couple of good examples would be Jayson Shaw and Scott Frost.

Jayson when he first came to America was an extremely talented shot maker, with other decent skills. But, as he gained experience and his knowledge increased, he then became able to gain the maximum potential of his already existing physical ability. Now Shaw is one of the most feared players in a tournament that he enters.

Now Scott on the other hand, was, and is, one of the best one pocket players in the world. His nine ball abilities on a pro level were considered mid-level pro. But, in the last year he has set his mind to wanting to earn a spot on the Mosconi Cup team. He has devoted much of his time to playing more nine ball and less one pocket. What has the result been? He has won the Rum-Runner, which is one of the toughest bar table tournaments and one that SVB participated in, and is in the top tier of the Mosconi Cup standings. But the most improvement in his abilities is up stairs in his head which allows to execute his physical abilities at a higher level. His physical abilities in nine ball has increased, but it first had to come from his mind and his determination.

The mind is where players will always improve, unless they develop alzheimers or something to that effect, even after their physical abilities begin to diminish. For a lot of players it's just a matter of honing of their mind while while keeping the confidence in their physical abilities.

I don't think that is quite right. There have been several features on this during the snooker world champs, with the hypothesis a player is at his peak in his mid to late 20s, with subsequent deterioration in his play attributable to losing concentration more often with age. Sounds plausible to me.

 

[bdorman]

Yes, but I think their "improvements" are different from ours. We think of improving our shot-making, banking, etc.

I think a pro's "improvement" (in many sports) has to do with the mental aspects of focus, shot choice, concentration, emotional control, etc.

 

[jay helfert]

Yes, but I think their "improvements" are different from ours. We think of improving our shot-making, banking, etc.

I think a pro's "improvement" (in many sports) has to do with the mental aspects of focus, shot choice, concentration, emotional control, etc.

Now you're talking! These are definitely areas where even a super talented player can improve his game. The other very important thing that Tate touched upon is motivation. Typically a player's motivation to work and practice will wane as they get older, with exceptions. The Filipinos never seem to tire of playing the game and then there are freaks like Earl, who is still a bit possessed about his game well into his 50's. My experience has been that an outstanding player (like a Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins or Buddy Hall) can still excel well into their 50's as long as they stay motivated.

 

[onepocketron]

An old saying comes to mind " if you aren't moving forward, you are moving backward". If you become complacent, or don't strive to improve, you are indeed moving in the wrong direction.

 

[Johnnyt]

If there was more money in pool you'd see a lot more 50 year olds still in top form. Johnnyt

 

[kaznj]

A similar question was asked to mark wilson while preparing for mosconi cup. I believe he was asked what will you with players who are already top pro level players. He said they would work on the finer points like safeties and kicking. He felt that at that level this where the games will be won or lost.

 

[Ron Swanson]

If there was more money in pool you'd see a lot more 50 year olds still in top form. Johnnyt

Rubbish, as ever.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Yes, but I think their "improvements" are different from ours. We think of improving our shot-making, banking, etc.

I think a pro's "improvement" (in many sports) has to do with the mental aspects of focus, shot choice, concentration, emotional control, etc.

Indeed. Those things come with confidence, when you are at the peak of your powers as a human being. Peak performance is generally 25-35, and there is no credible evidence to the contrary in any sport.

But people are still free to dream.

 

[Neil]

Indeed. Those things come with confidence, when you are at the peak of your powers as a human being. Peak performance is generally 25-35, and there is no credible evidence to the contrary in any sport.

But people are still free to dream.

And do you have any real idea why that might be? I would say you don't, even though you stated it in your own post!

Confidence. Which is nothing more than ones mental state. Many other sports require a high level of physicality. Pool does not. As one ages, they lose their peak physicality, and then their confidence goes because they are not physically capable of competing.

In pool, that does not happen until much, much, later in life. However, usually, around 25-30 yrs. old, pool players start to lose their drive that they had. They start to really understand that the dream world they had of just playing pool for their entire life will be a waste of time. They lose their passion. Without that passion, one loses ability because they start to get a little sloppy. That sloppiness then translates into lesser play and loss of confidence.

As long as one can keep the passion alive, which a few have done, such as Earl, Efren, Jose and Busty, they can keep improving. Proof that they can still improve is in the fact that Efren and Jose raised everyones level of play, yet they still are a major threat when they play at 50-60 years old. They had to raise their own level of play to be able to still compete.

 

[Masayoshi]

I'm am sure players of his level improve regularly. Of course there are diminishing returns in terms of how much an increase in skill translates to more won games, but there is always something to work on.