surlytempo
Member
Whomever has the first legal opening shot must perform the push-out. If the breaker breaks dry, the incoming player must play the push out. If the breaker pockets a ball, then (s)he must push out.
Do you think 9-ball would be better or worse if a mandatory push out after the break became a standard rule?
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
If you're going to do "second shot of the rack must be a push out" I think it's better to say that the breaker will be the one to push out regardless of balls made on the break. It seems like that will remove even more reasons to screw with the rack.
surlytempo
Member
I can live with that and on second thought, like it.
Put the one in the middle. Intentionals till somebody can get to the one.
Pattern racked in both cases and lately the 9 ball break won't pass the 3 point rule.
Pattern racking aside, as it doesn't factor in to the supposed "luck" opinion. Meeting the 3 point rule with a controlled successful break shot really isn't that difficult. In fact I'd say it's closer to being "unlucky" not to make the standard balls and/or not make the 3 point requirement.
Where's the stats guy...?
I brought up pattern racking because the claim is CD's breaks prove it's all skill. Corey's breaks only work at low and specific speeds which minimize the chaos of the initial dispersion and especially secondary collisions. Breaks with the magic rack under the three point rule are nominally hits where the wing ball is dead and the head ball can be contolled into the side but there is no assurance of a favorable layout. I never said it's all luck but judging by the lack of long strings (of racks) the break appears to be mostly luck.
I guess you think Max is just getting lucky here.
My point is that all of the top pros quit smashing the break and hoping to get lucky around 2001. Now, they hit it with a plan and just hope to not get unlucky.
Semantics.
I think it is more than semantics. To me, there is a difference between if the tendency is to go against you and you are hoping to get lucky, and if the tendency is to go in your favor and you are sometimes unlucky when it doesn't.
I don't remember players playing for shape on the 1 ball after the break before Corey in 2001.
Career <anything> has to be biased toward reliability so yes, skills have evolved into known standards. Still, players won't even touch two ball combinations half the time. 9 ball clusters in one move? I don't think it's even up to counting at blackjack.
...tonight, we played ugly on the 10 most of the time, it only seemed natural, as an option, to push out,
for the breaker making a ball or the incoming player on an open table - - - mandating it just doesn't fit.
...we also played the qualifier of having called and made the majority of balls to get the full 1 game win point,
if your opponent made more balls than you or tied you, the winner would only get half (1/2) of a point/win.
We being a 3some did played a race to 3, the winner consisted of 2 - 1/2 wins and 2 full wins,
it got to be a game of getting at least 5 balls, kind of a hedge, incase one was not able get to the 10 for the win, for the full 1 game win.
Made the whole table worth something.
adding,
not sure what the 3 point rule is, the ugly rack has no requirement for ball cushion contact on the break/opening shot, you can play a 2 way if you like, maybe even make a ball and still have the roll-out as an option for the next shot.
for the breaker making a ball or the incoming player on an open table - - - mandating it just doesn't fit.
...we also played the qualifier of having called and made the majority of balls to get the full 1 game win point,
if your opponent made more balls than you or tied you, the winner would only get half (1/2) of a point/win.
We being a 3some did played a race to 3, the winner consisted of 2 - 1/2 wins and 2 full wins,
it got to be a game of getting at least 5 balls, kind of a hedge, incase one was not able get to the 10 for the win, for the full 1 game win.
Made the whole table worth something.
adding,
not sure what the 3 point rule is, the ugly rack has no requirement for ball cushion contact on the break/opening shot, you can play a 2 way if you like, maybe even make a ball and still have the roll-out as an option for the next shot.
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just to update for all those wondering,
it does get a little intense when the qualifier is imposed on these rotation games, which is, having called and made the majority of the balls to qualify for a win on the money ball.
The push out really does play well when the only requirement on the opening shot is a good hit on that ugly 1 ball.
..btw, the majority is not of the number of balls in the rack, it's who has made the most called balls pocketed as the qualifier for a bonified win.
Ties or short of the count can be a rerack or, we're paying it as a 1/2 of a skin.
it does get a little intense when the qualifier is imposed on these rotation games, which is, having called and made the majority of the balls to qualify for a win on the money ball.
The push out really does play well when the only requirement on the opening shot is a good hit on that ugly 1 ball.
..btw, the majority is not of the number of balls in the rack, it's who has made the most called balls pocketed as the qualifier for a bonified win.
Ties or short of the count can be a rerack or, we're paying it as a 1/2 of a skin.
It boggles my mind that people see the break as an integral part of the game.
It makes me think whatever stupid jackassy lunaticky task we insert into an individual game that strongly affects who wins the game--juggle, solve a puzzle, tell a joke, balance on one foot, make your opponent laugh--will reach that status for you if we just do it with a straight face for five years.
It makes me think whatever stupid jackassy lunaticky task we insert into an individual game that strongly affects who wins the game--juggle, solve a puzzle, tell a joke, balance on one foot, make your opponent laugh--will reach that status for you if we just do it with a straight face for five years.
the break has always been a big factor of luck with some skill.. that changed when they let the breaker set up the balls and rack how they wanted. then they must keep changing rules as to stop the breakers racking from being the reason someone wins the game.
There is a problem with it. It's no fun.