Do you think Trick Shot Magic is bad for pool?
- Thread starter Texas Prez
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I can appreciate all of these responses. I think it is good for the sport because it sparks an interest in those who would otherwise never care. Obviously from the producers' perspective you must give the people what they like. If there are props on more shots, or for that matter more TSM than other pool shows, it's because that's what a majority of the viewers like which translates to better ratings. I like stroke shots and masse shots better than prop shots, too, but it is a strategic match between you and your opponent in which you must choose difficult shots out of a book. The producers determined the shots compiled in the book needed to have a number of props. Fortunately for me, one of the "props" you could use is Silicone. 
My favorite shot was the masse along the long rail spinning fast enough to get a ball out of the way and keep going! To you all (and me) that was an awesome masse, but to the layperson, they didn't understand how incredible of a shot it was. Throw a bottle or a coin wrapper in that, maybe a 6 lb bowling ball that looks like a cue ball, and you've gotten the layviewer's attention. Then, they want to go pick up a cue.
I got into pool partly because of Trick Shot Magic back in 2000. It made me want to play the game. I'm good at pool but I chose to take trick shots to the next level because it offered more appeal to me. Now I do shows, tv, youtube, etc. I love TSM and I think it is great for pool.
How's this angle? A kid sees me shoot a nasty jump shot through a box with a hole in it. Kid says daddy I want to do that. Daddy buys a pool table from Connelly or Diamond. Kid plays with house cues. Daddy buys a Predator or two. Before you know it there's five or ten thousand dollars put back into the billiard industry.
Let me take it a step further. Kid sees my youtube videos and wants to make some of his own. Another kid sees the first kid's videos and does the same. ...ad nauseum.
Long story short, more money in the billiard industry means more money for more tournaments and more money for payouts! Just a thought.
I think Trick Shot Magic is great for pool. That's just my two cents.
My favorite shot was the masse along the long rail spinning fast enough to get a ball out of the way and keep going! To you all (and me) that was an awesome masse, but to the layperson, they didn't understand how incredible of a shot it was. Throw a bottle or a coin wrapper in that, maybe a 6 lb bowling ball that looks like a cue ball, and you've gotten the layviewer's attention. Then, they want to go pick up a cue. I got into pool partly because of Trick Shot Magic back in 2000. It made me want to play the game. I'm good at pool but I chose to take trick shots to the next level because it offered more appeal to me. Now I do shows, tv, youtube, etc. I love TSM and I think it is great for pool.
How's this angle? A kid sees me shoot a nasty jump shot through a box with a hole in it. Kid says daddy I want to do that. Daddy buys a pool table from Connelly or Diamond. Kid plays with house cues. Daddy buys a Predator or two. Before you know it there's five or ten thousand dollars put back into the billiard industry.
Let me take it a step further. Kid sees my youtube videos and wants to make some of his own. Another kid sees the first kid's videos and does the same. ...ad nauseum.
Long story short, more money in the billiard industry means more money for more tournaments and more money for payouts!
Just a thought.I think Trick Shot Magic is great for pool. That's just my two cents.
I'm going to go with it is not bad for the sport. I was in my local Boy's Club the other day talking with the teen director about the new center they are constructing. She was telling me that all the boys are into trick shots, they tivo the TV events then try to set them up an make them at the club.
That can't be bad, imho, though it can be hard on the equipment. :wink:
That can't be bad, imho, though it can be hard on the equipment. :wink:
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....to all of you harping on speed pool....
26.5 seconds is the world record for potting a full rack of 15. Go ahead and try to get close to that..I dare ya!
26.5 seconds is the world record for potting a full rack of 15. Go ahead and try to get close to that..I dare ya!
It may never be the favorite of the serious pool player, but Trick Shot Magic is good for pool. It has the showmanship and wow factor that can attract even those who don't play pool at all. As others have suggested, anything that increases the chances of anyone trying pool for the first time is good for the game.
I can see the point some make about the props, and the point that some of the shots played in Trick Shot Magic have no application to any game played on a pool table. Nonetheless, the props greatly increase the number of possible trick shots, which is highly desirable.
I can see the point some make about the props, and the point that some of the shots played in Trick Shot Magic have no application to any game played on a pool table. Nonetheless, the props greatly increase the number of possible trick shots, which is highly desirable.
Reposting my original argument:
I am definately not saying that these players are not talented. They clearly have skills that exceed the majority of pros out there. All I am saying is that this style of pool needs to take on more game-like scenarios, remove the tournament structure they currently use and transform into more of a demo event like the days of old, and invite more Pros to compete and demonstrate with them.
If you are given the privelege to be televised, contribute back to some of those who aren't
Like I said, upmost respect for trickshot players, I just want to see more respect given to the pros who grind out a living week in and week out.
I am definately not saying that these players are not talented. They clearly have skills that exceed the majority of pros out there. All I am saying is that this style of pool needs to take on more game-like scenarios, remove the tournament structure they currently use and transform into more of a demo event like the days of old, and invite more Pros to compete and demonstrate with them.
If you are given the privelege to be televised, contribute back to some of those who aren't
Like I said, upmost respect for trickshot players, I just want to see more respect given to the pros who grind out a living week in and week out.
sjm said:
Very well put, sjm.
Is the home run derby bad for baseball or the slam dunk contest bad for basketball? I don't think so, but I think I understand the reason for this thread.
It seems like trick shot pool is bigger than "real" pool. The prize money is just as large, if not larger in most cases. Trick shot pool has gotten more and more air time on ESPN(2).
Can someone answer for me how they can come up with $25,000 or $50,000 prize funds for these tournaments?
still all bad...
Replacing a 2 month old simonis for being ripped, costs a bar owner too much too fast. So he goes and buys mali or sterling....The pool room now sucks, action goes across the street, and the only people left that play come in for 45 minutes a day and shoot trick shots. The only person that benefits is the head of MALI. Yall think Filipino teens shoot trick shots when they can hardly afford a/c for the pool hall?? They are taught respect for the game up front, we aren't...plain and simple.
Replacing a 2 month old simonis for being ripped, costs a bar owner too much too fast. So he goes and buys mali or sterling....The pool room now sucks, action goes across the street, and the only people left that play come in for 45 minutes a day and shoot trick shots. The only person that benefits is the head of MALI. Yall think Filipino teens shoot trick shots when they can hardly afford a/c for the pool hall?? They are taught respect for the game up front, we aren't...plain and simple.
DogsPlayingPool said:
CocoboloCowboy said:
Didn't he have a protoge?
jason said:
I don't know how they come up with the money, but if it's the only thing on TV I guess advertisers would be willing to pay.
Fact is though, Trick Shot Magic and the World Cup of Trick Shots are really the only two big money trick shot events each year, and they're both invitation only. The World Champion in 2006 only got $3k (couldn't find numbers for this or last year) and I think every trick shot "pro" has something else they do to make a living.
GordonRamsay said:
It doesn't take me that long to get them all in the pockets. I just take my hand and swipe 'em in! Pretty easy for me!
Artistic pool, or trick shot magic, or whatever you wanna call it, is good for pool only for the reason that most of the equipment is the same or similar. That's where the similarities end, in my eyes.
What first caught my eye about artistic pool was the suits. These guys dress FINE. Whether it's leather, bright colors, or even plaid, there's a suit involved and they take the suit seriously. I like that. It adds a lot of class to what they're about.
Almost the only time you see a few of them together is during competitions. But, I don't associate all the drinking and smoking and gambling with it, which really won me over. Add the suit and you have what looks even cleaner than golf. (And it's a lot more fun to watch -- for me, anyway.)
If you see a video of a trick shot artist in his garage, you still don't usually see a bunch of drinking, smoking, or gambling. You see a guy who's doin' some serious practice time and sharing his successful shots with the audience. Because you know it's practice time, the suit isn't necessary. But you can really appreciate the work he's put in.
When pool players get rid of the smoking and drinking and gambling image, they will find themselves on tv much more. In the meantime, these trickshot artists have figured it out and are taking the limelight and they totally deserve it.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. We went to a local, small time trade show for a day. They had door prizes. A little girl won the door prize we offered and when they found us, the girl was all excited and wanted to at least look at the cues, but when her mom saw pool cues, she grabbed her daughter's hand and couldn't get her away fast enough. Hmmm.... We were in an area that is heavily religious. Most people just relate pool to all things anti-religious. You lose a huge part of the potential audience due to the image. Of course, the game is still played mostly in smoky bars with gambling and alcohol readily available, so nobody has really worked too hard on the image.
Yep. Artistic pool is on the way up, due heavily to the image they portray. Because the equipment is similar, some folks will still turn the channel, because of the image ingrained in their brains. But, others will watch anyway, because they get interested in the entertainment side and because the guys (and gals) look sharp.
What first caught my eye about artistic pool was the suits. These guys dress FINE. Whether it's leather, bright colors, or even plaid, there's a suit involved and they take the suit seriously. I like that. It adds a lot of class to what they're about.
Almost the only time you see a few of them together is during competitions. But, I don't associate all the drinking and smoking and gambling with it, which really won me over. Add the suit and you have what looks even cleaner than golf. (And it's a lot more fun to watch -- for me, anyway.)
If you see a video of a trick shot artist in his garage, you still don't usually see a bunch of drinking, smoking, or gambling. You see a guy who's doin' some serious practice time and sharing his successful shots with the audience. Because you know it's practice time, the suit isn't necessary. But you can really appreciate the work he's put in.
When pool players get rid of the smoking and drinking and gambling image, they will find themselves on tv much more. In the meantime, these trickshot artists have figured it out and are taking the limelight and they totally deserve it.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. We went to a local, small time trade show for a day. They had door prizes. A little girl won the door prize we offered and when they found us, the girl was all excited and wanted to at least look at the cues, but when her mom saw pool cues, she grabbed her daughter's hand and couldn't get her away fast enough. Hmmm.... We were in an area that is heavily religious. Most people just relate pool to all things anti-religious. You lose a huge part of the potential audience due to the image. Of course, the game is still played mostly in smoky bars with gambling and alcohol readily available, so nobody has really worked too hard on the image.
Yep. Artistic pool is on the way up, due heavily to the image they portray. Because the equipment is similar, some folks will still turn the channel, because of the image ingrained in their brains. But, others will watch anyway, because they get interested in the entertainment side and because the guys (and gals) look sharp.
That being said......
I still prefer to PLAY regular ol' 8 ball... 9 ball only if I have to, but 8 ball is my favorite to play. I could do very few of the trick shots, so I leave that to the pros and enjoy watching them.
Different people are drawn more to different games. Some folks get bored or can't make all the shots for an 8 ball game, or they just get frustrated. Whatever their reason, the trick shots are right down their alley.
It's two totally different things. Asking "Do you think Trick Shot Magic is bad for pool?" isn't really a fair question. It's like asking if football is good for baseball, becasue they might use the same field and benches.
These are both great sports. I meant no disrespect for my favorite game with my previous post. However, I do feel as though the game I love so much has disrespected me, because I am automatically stereotyped as a drinking, smoking, gambling person, just because I play pool. I am none of those things, but I am looked down upon for being a pool player, unless people get to know me well enough to find out.
In my previous post, I simply was stating what drew me more strongly toward the trick shot arena. If pool could drop some of the negative images that go with it, I think it would really go places on tv, but there are only a few who are really working to give it a better image. I love watching a good match on streaming video, but I prefer to watch 8 ball over 9 ball. I usualy wind up catching a good 9 ball match, though. Oh well.
If trick shot magic draws more viewers and entertains people, it can't be bad for "pool," because people will still associate it with pool, just because it uses equipment that associates the image of the game they all know.
I say let 'em help pool build a good image. If it's a way for pool to work it's way onto the tv screen, go for it! But, if the pool players themselves won't work to clean up the image, it will show in time and they will have nobody to blame, but themselves.
I still prefer to PLAY regular ol' 8 ball... 9 ball only if I have to, but 8 ball is my favorite to play. I could do very few of the trick shots, so I leave that to the pros and enjoy watching them.
Different people are drawn more to different games. Some folks get bored or can't make all the shots for an 8 ball game, or they just get frustrated. Whatever their reason, the trick shots are right down their alley.
It's two totally different things. Asking "Do you think Trick Shot Magic is bad for pool?" isn't really a fair question. It's like asking if football is good for baseball, becasue they might use the same field and benches.
These are both great sports. I meant no disrespect for my favorite game with my previous post. However, I do feel as though the game I love so much has disrespected me, because I am automatically stereotyped as a drinking, smoking, gambling person, just because I play pool. I am none of those things, but I am looked down upon for being a pool player, unless people get to know me well enough to find out.
In my previous post, I simply was stating what drew me more strongly toward the trick shot arena. If pool could drop some of the negative images that go with it, I think it would really go places on tv, but there are only a few who are really working to give it a better image. I love watching a good match on streaming video, but I prefer to watch 8 ball over 9 ball. I usualy wind up catching a good 9 ball match, though. Oh well.
If trick shot magic draws more viewers and entertains people, it can't be bad for "pool," because people will still associate it with pool, just because it uses equipment that associates the image of the game they all know.
I say let 'em help pool build a good image. If it's a way for pool to work it's way onto the tv screen, go for it! But, if the pool players themselves won't work to clean up the image, it will show in time and they will have nobody to blame, but themselves.
I feel anything that gets non pool players interested in our sport is a good thing. There is a reason that ESPN has Trick Shot Magic, and that?s because it must have pretty good ratings. As for myself I just recently started shooting in trick shot tournaments as of the middle of 2007. I?ve been to a few trick shot tournaments and I can tell you by experience that I?ve had more fun at them, then regular 9-ball or 8-ball tournaments. Everyone, and when I say everyone, I mean EVERYONE at the trick shot tournaments are nice as can be. You won?t find anyone cursing, getting drunk, or trying to get an angle for some action. There is even a sportsmanship award at the end of the tournaments where everyone can vote. As an example of players helping players, I was having a problem making a certain shot in the program. Mike Masse was shooting the same shot on the next table, so I asked him how he was making it. He showed me, and I ended up making the shot in the tournament. All the players are helpful as such. As for the pro trick shot tournaments, they are extremely tough. To pull off the shots in these tournaments, you have to have a stroke, and knowledge of the game. I think one can only have the greatest respect if one competes against the best. A lot of practice goes into them and the money is not too bad.
As for the videos on YouTube, I think its great. As I said before, I think anything with a positive attitude with our sport that we love is a good thing. Someone in an earlier post brought up Semih Sayginer. Yes, he is by far one of the best. But everyone?s talent level is different. If they take the time to make a video, I feel we should all welcome it. But to say that we should just pay attention to Semih, is like saying that we should just watch Shane, Corey, Efren, or whoever is on top at that time.
As for the pro players such as Shane, Corey, and the rest of them, I really enjoy watching them play. Will I be as good as them one day? I can confidently say probably not. I respect their games so much. I wish they would be on ESPN more often. I think many of the pro players are great peoplel, but there is an up hill image battle for them. I hope that one day they too can get the ?air time? that they truly deserve.
As for the videos on YouTube, I think its great. As I said before, I think anything with a positive attitude with our sport that we love is a good thing. Someone in an earlier post brought up Semih Sayginer. Yes, he is by far one of the best. But everyone?s talent level is different. If they take the time to make a video, I feel we should all welcome it. But to say that we should just pay attention to Semih, is like saying that we should just watch Shane, Corey, Efren, or whoever is on top at that time.
As for the pro players such as Shane, Corey, and the rest of them, I really enjoy watching them play. Will I be as good as them one day? I can confidently say probably not. I respect their games so much. I wish they would be on ESPN more often. I think many of the pro players are great peoplel, but there is an up hill image battle for them. I hope that one day they too can get the ?air time? that they truly deserve.
Trick Shot Magic
I agree that the general public watches it and really enjoys it.
For me, I prefer to watch an old Mosconi Cup or US Open match between anybody over Trick Shot Magic.
I don't care for it too much due to the setup's, prop's, etc.
I think it's quite boring and would rather watch speed pool (believe it or not).
My favorite billiards shows are the old classic Celebrity Billiards shows, with Mosconi, Fats, Lassiter, Crane, etc.
I agree that the general public watches it and really enjoys it.
For me, I prefer to watch an old Mosconi Cup or US Open match between anybody over Trick Shot Magic.
I don't care for it too much due to the setup's, prop's, etc.
I think it's quite boring and would rather watch speed pool (believe it or not).
My favorite billiards shows are the old classic Celebrity Billiards shows, with Mosconi, Fats, Lassiter, Crane, etc.
i agree, the old matches are awesome. Thats probably a reason I love the movie "the hustler".
One thing I didn't speak about was the props in trick shot magic. As for the competition, I don't think its fair, because these are personal props and all the players don't nessesary have a chance to practice the shots using those certain props. I think they could do away with them.
One thing I didn't speak about was the props in trick shot magic. As for the competition, I don't think its fair, because these are personal props and all the players don't nessesary have a chance to practice the shots using those certain props. I think they could do away with them.
At least with trick shots if you are a player that does not have a complete grasp of throwing balls or how balls react when they are tied up by paying attention you may pick up some knowledge. I enjoy trick shots much more then speed pool but like most players I would rather watch a match.