Do you try to "pop" the CB on the break?

B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
A couple of weeks ago I changed my break address to hit a little "down" on the CB. It causes the CB to pop up a bit (or more) when it hits the one-ball.

I find I'm scratching less (time spent in the air is less time available to roll into a pocket?). Seems like ball spread is about the same.

Of course, I run the risk of flying the CB off the table, but I think I've got that under control.

Anyway, I was just curious whether you consciously try to do this, and any suggestions you have.
 
Bustamante, if I recall correctly, was known to employ that break technique back in the day because of how hard he broke. I like it for the same reason you do. It incidentally leaves the CB in the middle of the table and keeps it from rolling or getting kicked into a pocket. However, I normally find my one ball (if I haven't made it off the break) is usually back down by the foot of the table, and I prefer my CB closer to it. Better options to play safe if I can't pocket for position. I only use it from time to time if I notice the pockets accepting more balls during the break. If I'm only making one, Id rather break more controlled. [Also, you'll know if your opponent is messing with the rack. How can it not spread well if the CB is hopping off the 1ball !?! ]
 
Pop the cue on breaks

SVB specifically called it "popping the cue ball" in his instructional series he released last year. Search for that an you will probably find plenty of material.
 
Yes I do. The ol' pop and drop break. Reasons for it to me are mainly keeping the cue ball in the center of the table so it gives highest probability of a shot on the first shot. Secondly it keeps the racker honest because it basically broadcasts to the entire rail know you muck racked the breaker. Plus to me at least its a pretty easily controlled break.
 
Pop up

Skratch said:
Bustamante, if I recall correctly, was known to employ that break technique back in the day because of how hard he broke. I like it for the same reason you do. It incidentally leaves the CB in the middle of the table and keeps it from rolling or getting kicked into a pocket. However, I normally find my one ball (if I haven't made it off the break) is usually back down by the foot of the table, and I prefer my CB closer to it. Better options to play safe if I can't pocket for position. I only use it from time to time if I notice the pockets accepting more balls during the break. If I'm only making one, Id rather break more controlled. [Also, you'll know if your opponent is messing with the rack. How can it not spread well if the CB is hopping off the 1ball !?! ]
Click to expand...

When the cue ball pops up after contacting the rack, it's because the CB is slightly airborne when it strikes the target ball.

Since you cannot get a perfectly level stroke on the break (the rail under your cue prevents this), the cue ball always jumps a bit when using sufficient force on the break (exactly as in a "mini" jump shot). You can prove this by placing a coin in the CB's path to the rack. A stroke with sufficient break force will cause the CB to pass over the coin.

If the airborne CB lands so that it strikes the target ball and the table surface simultaneously, there will be no "pop" up. If it lands just before striking the rack, or strikes the target ball on the fly above center, it pops up.

If the airborne CB strikes the target ball dead center on the vertical axis, it will always pop straight up. If it strikes the target ball off center it jumps to one side...and often off the table.

Of course if you strike the CB softly enough, it will not jump at all.
 
I do it for 10-ball. Pretty much it's the only advice Shane has to give in his break video...
"just try to pop the cue ball. Whatever you did to get the cue ball to pop, do that some more."

A local pro who plays about Shuff speed told me the pop is important, but wasn't quite sure why.
The balls you're trying to make just seem to go better. The 1 ball maybe "escapes" more easily
bouncing back towards the corner in the kitchen.

On the other hand Ralph Eckert said it's strictly a trick for managing cue ball position.
He doesn't think it helps you make any of the intended balls.
But any spin the cue ball has dies when it bounces hard off the slate.
By the time it lands a second time, there isn't much topspin or backspin left.
We've all seen Shane's cue ball hop backwards, bounce, then mysteriously die.

I don't think it beats scratches more. Scratches are about what direction the cue ball is moving,
not about how much time it spends airborne.
You will see plenty of pros jump the cue ball directly into the side pocket on the break.

Johnny Archer has said he doesn't like letting it go airborne. I think he said it felt too uncontrolled.

For 9-ball, I don't think there's any point in intentionally hopping it.
In the last US Open, a ball was made on the break about 70% of the time, and that number
would be higher if everyone took the time to read the rack and use the info in Joe Tucker's videos.
You can make the wing ball go at low speed, the soft break is deadly in 9-ball.
To cause more than tiny hop you'd have to hit hard, meaning less control of the CB and less accurate hit.

I'm not sure it's useful in any other game but Shane basically uses his 10b break when playing 8b.
Unfortunately the intended balls don't go as often (kissed out) and the cue ball gets kicked around too.
So maybe the hop is pointless there.
 
There is nothing wrong with popping when you play. Just make sure you use a certain measure of control when you pop and be careful not to do it too early in the game. She'll respect you more later. ;)
 
100% of the energy used to make the cb go airborne after contact with the head ball is not transferred to the rack. Think about that a little bit....
 
Neil said:
100% of the energy used to make the cb go airborne after contact with the head ball is not transferred to the rack. Think about that a little bit....
Click to expand...

And it doesn't need 100% energy transfer. If you don't pop the cue ball, the rack is only allowed to really expand from the head ball backwards. The pop allows for the rack to explode from the center. That's why in a frozen rack, with a pop on the break, the key ball never moves. Basically saying, if you can pop the cue ball on the break, you can use less power in the break to allow the rack to spread easier.
 
I absolutely do consider changing the angle of impact on the cb one of the possible options for breaking.

Some tables/ racks break better when the impact happens with a hop/pop.

I will take 10-20% of the power off when using the hop/pop though and I do it with playing cue, not break cue.
 
CreeDo said:
I do it for 10-ball. Pretty much it's the only advice Shane has to give in his break video...
"just try to pop the cue ball. Whatever you did to get the cue ball to pop, do that some more."

A local pro who plays about Shuff speed told me the pop is important, but wasn't quite sure why.
The balls you're trying to make just seem to go better. The 1 ball maybe "escapes" more easily
bouncing back towards the corner in the kitchen.

On the other hand Ralph Eckert said it's strictly a trick for managing cue ball position.
He doesn't think it helps you make any of the intended balls.
But any spin the cue ball has dies when it bounces hard off the slate.
By the time it lands a second time, there isn't much topspin or backspin left.
We've all seen Shane's cue ball hop backwards, bounce, then mysteriously die.

I don't think it beats scratches more. Scratches are about what direction the cue ball is moving,
not about how much time it spends airborne.
You will see plenty of pros jump the cue ball directly into the side pocket on the break.

Johnny Archer has said he doesn't like letting it go airborne. I think he said it felt too uncontrolled.

For 9-ball, I don't think there's any point in intentionally hopping it.
In the last US Open, a ball was made on the break about 70% of the time, and that number
would be higher if everyone took the time to read the rack and use the info in Joe Tucker's videos.
You can make the wing ball go at low speed, the soft break is deadly in 9-ball.
To cause more than tiny hop you'd have to hit hard, meaning less control of the CB and less accurate hit.

I'm not sure it's useful in any other game but Shane basically uses his 10b break when playing 8b.
Unfortunately the intended balls don't go as often (kissed out) and the cue ball gets kicked around too.
So maybe the hop is pointless there.
Click to expand...

I have about gave up on trying to get the ball to hop playing 10 ball. I can not get it no matter what I have tried.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
And it doesn't need 100% energy transfer. If you don't pop the cue ball, the rack is only allowed to really expand from the head ball backwards. The pop allows for the rack to explode from the center. That's why in a frozen rack, with a pop on the break, the key ball never moves. Basically saying, if you can pop the cue ball on the break, you can use less power in the break to allow the rack to spread easier.
Click to expand...

Well, you are free to believe that if you want to. Doesn't make it true though. All the scientific studies say differently. I'll just go with what they say about it.
 
blakerandy said:
So what is the technique to get it to pop?
I have tried but I am not consistent.
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For me it's done with a slightly shorter bridge length (I bridge on the table, not the rail), and raising both the back end of the cue and my bridge "v" (it's a closed bridge but let's call the cue-pass area a "v" because I can't think of what else to call it). The idea is that I'm hitting slightly down on the ball. It bounces the ball off the table just like a jump shot, except that it's a 1/8" jump instead of a 3" jump.

I hit 1/2 tip above center ball but since I'm striking downward I get a slight draw.
 
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Neil said:
Well, you are free to believe that if you want to. Doesn't make it true though. All the scientific studies say differently. I'll just go with what they say about it.
Click to expand...

I am not 100% sure what you are saying, but I think I agree that the reaction he declares might only be true with a truly perfect set of conditions.

Reality says there are always imperfections with a rack and one better be prepared to make adjustments for best results.
 
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