Do you use stun run-through?

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve been working on hitting my follow shots firmer and a little lower on the cue ball. I think I’ll be less likely to get roll-off and cling, and I see pros shoot a lot of their shots like this, so I’m trying to emulate them.

Damn it’s hard, especially at a distance. If I misjudge the speed or the tip placement, things can go really bad, much worse than a roll shot. Sometimes I try to go forward 2 feet and it will go an inch. And I miss the shot more often.

On the other hand, a soft roll is really easy to judge and I rarely have problems with it. In a competitive situation, I’m going to play the soft roll 10/10 times over the stun run-through.

Any tips on making this shot work? Or is it even worth it when the roll shot is so much easier?
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I do it all the time... Maybe not in the range of a couple of feet, but definitely <12". It's a great way to follow through with an increased angle of deflection off the OB if your cut line is very shallow. Typically I'll aim center CB and then raise my bridge a tad and jack up just a little bit. For me at least, this gets the tip a little bit above the equator of the CB and generates the stun/follow.

I find attempting stun/follow problem-matic with a "flat" cue. I can do it, but opt not to if the shot allows.

All that said, I've been playing a ton of 14.1 the past while so I'm soft rolling more shots then I ever have. Extremely comfortable going that route as well. The kick/skid/whatever % grows using the shot at that pace.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This shot is very important. Sometimes it is needed to dribble forward slowly without risking a slow roll shot. But even more common is when you have a shot like below, in which a stun brings you towards the side pocket but a straight follow brings you too far below the shot line. Being able to 'fudge the tangent line' is a critical skill.

To develop this I practice straight in shots and work on having the cue ball roll through the object ball two diamonds with a stun follow hit. It's actually part of Joe Tucker's drill, you shoot straight shots with five different hits (stops, stun follows, punch draws, full follows, full draws) keeping swing speed the same and just adjusting your tip position. I've done this drill 10 years now and it remains one of my core drills that I do weekly. I've gotten a very good feel for the stun follow and use it more than I ever thought I would.

In contrast, I rarely use the drag shot anymore. Bunting balls, dragging balls, twisting balls, that was good on slow cloth in the 90s. Now I slide the balls much more.

Good luck!

1618164517159.png
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
It's a great way to follow through with an increased angle of deflection off the OB if your cut line is very shallow.
But even more common is when you have a shot like below, in which a stun brings you towards the side pocket but a straight follow brings you too far below the shot line. Being able to 'fudge the tangent line' is a critical skill.

View attachment 591497
Exactly what I was trying to describe.... Very powerful if you have range of command over it.
 

DieselPete

Active member
I’ve been working on hitting my follow shots firmer and a little lower on the cue ball. I think I’ll be less likely to get roll-off and cling, and I see pros shoot a lot of their shots like this, so I’m trying to emulate them.

Damn it’s hard, especially at a distance. If I misjudge the speed or the tip placement, things can go really bad, much worse than a roll shot. Sometimes I try to go forward 2 feet and it will go an inch. And I miss the shot more often.

On the other hand, a soft roll is really easy to judge and I rarely have problems with it. In a competitive situation, I’m going to play the soft roll 10/10 times over the stun run-through.

Any tips on making this shot work? Or is it even worth it when the roll shot is so much easier?

Regarding using the soft roll so much... I'd recommend that you continue to develop your stun run-through until you are very confident in it. When the object ball has some distance to travel to the pocket, slow-rolling becomes a dicey proposition. Any table roll-off or chalk dust turns your made ball into a missed hanger. The object ball stays on line better with some speed.
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Personally, I am a big fan of the soft roll even on long shots if necessary.
Great to have in your arsenal when needed.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Not sure of the terminology here, but to me, a stun follow and a stun run through are two different shots. To me, a stun run through is using stun to go slightly forward a little on a straight shot with a very similar stroke.

Every decent player uses stun follow, but I think the stun run through is more the domain of the most elite pros. That's because it has to be hit so hard that it brings some extra misses into play relative to slow rolling a shot. The flip side is that slow rolling is far more difficult than most people realize, as even a hint of unintended english may be enough to cause a miss and also because it exposes one to a skid. In the end, though, it's a matter of preference for all players.

I have certainly played against several top pros that virtually never used the stun run though shot as I define it.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Not sure of the terminology here, but to me, a stun follow and a stun run through are two different shots. To me, a stun run through is using stun to go slightly forward a little on a straight shot with a very similar stroke.
So would it be save to say that "stun run through' would equate to a ball or less of follow. Whereas "stun follow" would be the same style of shot that follows > then a ball rotation...?
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
I think the very best at this shot is Jayson Shaw. Ove the years I have put it more into my day to day play.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
In snooker you NEED this shot. I'd wager you can't play at a high level without at least decent mastery of it.

In pool, well....The napless cloth and decent quality of tables today can allow you to get away with not using it so much. People think that you have to blast the shot, but you don't. You just hit harder than you would a natural follow. Not buy much, but by enough to avoid roll offs and skids. The reverse of it, the stun draw, is probably the absolute most important shot for control of short draws there is. Again, in snooker you're pretty much not going to do well without it. I'd say that's pretty much true in pool as well. Seriously, soft drawing the ball one ball length from a distance is so hard, it borders on impossible to do consistently, while stun drawing is so easy, anyone can do it. Conversely, if you know how to stun draw, the stun follow is available at your fingertips. It's not like it's any kind of "magical" shot, once you know one, you can very easily learn the other. Shoot a shot where you stun the ball at a medium pace and stop it dead. Then go up a fraction with your tip. How f-ing hard is that? If you want to draw it an inch go down a fraction. It's not rocket science. You can hit this kind of shot at any speed you like and tailor it to the situation as long as you can stun the ball at that speed reliably, stun following is always there for you.

The problem happens when people insist they HAVE to hit the ball at or near the center for the shot. It's not true, and never has been. You can do it, and I sometimes do, just for the joy of letting my stroke out, but in a big match I don't. It's not needed and increases the difficulty of the shot.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
So would it be save to say that "stun run through' would equate to a ball or less of follow. Whereas "stun follow" would be the same style of shot that follows > then a ball rotation...?
Yes, that's how I see it.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My personal opinion: The stun follow is any shot in which the cue ball is turning forward (i.e. not sliding or back spinning) at a rate LESS than a naturally rolling ball.

This could be on a straight shot, in which the cue ball will dribble forward less than the pace of a fully rolling ball. It could be on an angled shot in which case the cue ball will slide through the tangent line somewhat, but not as much as on a fully rolling ball.

This shot doesn't have to be struck hard. It is a combination of your initial tip position (high or low), combined with the TIME the cue ball slides across the felt. The longer the cue ball slides the more the friction from the table bed will encourage the cue ball to roll naturally. Time across the table bed is derived from the cue ball SPEED as well as the DISTANCE from the object ball. In other words, you don't need to hit hard if you are shooting from close distance to the object ball (the table won't have time to change the initial spin on the cue ball). You can also shoot a 'drag to a stun follow', in other words cue the shot with back spin such that it wears off to a partially rolling cue ball (unlike the traditional drag shot in which it results in a fully rolling ball). To be fair, from a long distance accurately assessing how much roll a back spinning cue ball will pick up to the point you can predict a stun run through isn't easy to estimate, but it is doable.

In short, I use this more when I am close to the object ball where it is easy to control with slower swing speeds. When the cue ball is a long distance from the object ball I will increase my swing speed to a point, but will balance the shot with a lower tip position so I am not blasting the ball.

One note- the pros play on glassy fast equipment most of the time. This decreased friction allows them to play the stun follow with lower swing speeds and more consistency than on a gritty pool hall table. That said, I use this shot constantly and have very good control over my cue ball spin.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
One other note. The use of a drag shot or stun follow shot is to avoid slow rolling balls with distance.

See diagrams below. When there is no distance to overcome, use the roll. When there is distance between the cue ball and the object ball (but little between the object ball and the pocket) use the drag shot. This allows the cue ball to move quickly across the long distance but then roll softly from there. But when there is a big gap between the object ball and the pocket I tend to go towards stun follow. A slow roll is dicey, and a drag doesn't help because it only closes the gap between the cue ball and object ball which isn't the issue. The stun follow allows me to use more speed helping close the gap between the object ball and pocket.

This isn't a science but wanted to talk about generalities. Again, I also use stun follows to fudge tangent lines often.



ROLL:

1618179634492.png



DRAG:

1618179616392.png



STUN FOLLOW:

1618179670544.png
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Any tips on making this shot work?
We’re usually pretty good at stop shots at different distances - try shooting a stop shot at an imaginary object ball visualized a little closer to you than the actual OB, so it has just enough “rolling room” to roll the distance you want after collision. You can control the rollthrough distance by how much closer you visualize the “ghost OB”.

pj
chgo
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's the kind of shot I was thinking of when I created this post. You've got to hit a window maybe 6-8 inches wide to shoot the 2 in the corner. To roll forward requires a pretty soft hit, but it's an easy shot. To me, the firmer/lower hit is a lot harder.

Screen Shot 2021-04-11 at 5.20.11 PM.png
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Here's the kind of shot I was thinking of when I created this post. You've got to hit a window maybe 6-8 inches wide to shoot the 2 in the corner. To roll forward requires a pretty soft hit, but it's an easy shot. To me, the firmer/lower hit is a lot harder.

View attachment 591547
On a dead straight shot like this, stun run through is a poor choice. You need to go forward about a foot. To be honest, it's hard to imagine anybody using something other than follow here.
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, I been using that kinda shot for about 60 years, my Dad taught that to me. I don't know what the man's name is now, but he wrote a book titled "Master Stroke", It was about using that type of stroke, often, so you were always ready to pull it off. He said using the stun run-through, made it easier because you could adapt to the skid of the cue ball on the table, rather than controlling a rolling ball. I'll have to dig out that book...
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
i am sorry i have not read any other responses
a stun thru at that distance is hard
i use it when the balls are closer
a drag draw shot might do what you want
stroke the ball but slow the follow
jmho
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On a dead straight shot like this, stun run through is a poor choice. You need to go forward about a foot. To be honest, it's hard to imagine anybody using something other than follow here.
Thanks, that makes sense to me. I believe I was under the mistaken impression that it would always be a better idea to hit firmer/lower.
 
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