Do you use stun run-through?

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's the kind of shot I was thinking of when I created this post. You've got to hit a window maybe 6-8 inches wide to shoot the 2 in the corner. To roll forward requires a pretty soft hit, but it's an easy shot. To me, the firmer/lower hit is a lot harder.

View attachment 591547
Stun run thru for the 3. Follow for the 2.
I think stun run thru for a shot where cueball is 4 or more feet from object ball and you need to roll ahead a inch or three.
I think stun follow is hard follow for changing path of cueball upon contacting object ball and before the top takes.
 

VarmintKong

Cannonball comin’!
Timely topic regarding my development. I really ballsed up a shot like this on Friday night:
Overran position and left myself too straight in. Was worried about roll off ‘cuz that corner has a little something under the cloth just closer to the long rail side of the intersection of the first two diamonds. I needed less than a half diamond of follow to open up possibilities.

I had room to cheat the pocket a little bit and play the tangent line with a little more oomph to play the wider area of the shot line. Used too much juice and it followed the tangent line farther than I thought leaving me stuck on the rail and on the wrong side of the shot line.

I wilted under the pressure. Now I don’t expect to be perfect, but I should have made that shot; weakness exposed.

Thanks to Demetrius for the workout. I’ll definitely create reps of variations on that theme.
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Here's the kind of shot I was thinking of when I created this post. You've got to hit a window maybe 6-8 inches wide to shoot the 2 in the corner. To roll forward requires a pretty soft hit, but it's an easy shot. To me, the firmer/lower hit is a lot harder.

View attachment 591547
On a dead straight shot like this, stun run through is a poor choice. You need to go forward about a foot. To be honest, it's hard to imagine anybody using something other than follow here.
Have to agree here... Rolling pocket weight shot for me on this one.

know that opens me up to potential table roll offs or what not, but there are times you simply have to trust the equipment will do what it should. ..and in this case, that's roll straight.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I’ve been working on hitting my follow shots firmer and a little lower on the cue ball. I think I’ll be less likely to get roll-off and cling, and I see pros shoot a lot of their shots like this, so I’m trying to emulate them.

Damn it’s hard, especially at a distance. If I misjudge the speed or the tip placement, things can go really bad, much worse than a roll shot. Sometimes I try to go forward 2 feet and it will go an inch. And I miss the shot more often.

On the other hand, a soft roll is really easy to judge and I rarely have problems with it. In a competitive situation, I’m going to play the soft roll 10/10 times over the stun run-through.

Any tips on making this shot work? Or is it even worth it when the roll shot is so much easier?
Is your cue angled or level at impact? That is, do you raise your stroke hand for this shot or only your bridge hand? Try it both ways and see...
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used more stun through more earlier before Taom Chalk time. Now when we use mostly Taom chalk skid is no problem anymore so i use this a lot less nowadays..
Sometimes when object ball have more distance to pocket and you have to go forward less than foot. Rolling is not possible anymore. Then you have to have this shot on arsenal. Anyways i have still it decent level in my game. On 14.1 it is one of core shots to have.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
My personal opinion: The stun follow is any shot in which the cue ball is turning forward (i.e. not sliding or back spinning) at a rate LESS than a naturally rolling ball.

"Stun follow," "stun run-through," "stun forward," and "stun through" can be used interchangeably; although, I agree that "stun run-through" is typically used only for a straight shot.

"Stun draw" and "stun back" are also used interchangeably.

I like to use the term "tweener" to describe any CB spin or path between stun and full roll or between stun and maximum backspin.

For those interested, I have lots of resource related to judging and using these types of shots here:

 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
"Stun follow," "stun run-through," "stun forward," and "stun through" can be used interchangeably; although, I agree that "stun run-through" is typically used only for a straight shot.

"Stun draw" and "stun back" are also used interchangeably.

I like to use the term "tweener" to describe any CB spin or path between stun and full roll or between stun and maximum backspin.

For those interested, I have lots of resource related to judging and using these types of shots here:

Here's what I have in my online glossary:

run through: same as “stun run-through.”
stun back: same as “stun draw,” often applied to a straight shot.
stun draw: a draw shot with only partial backspin (not maximum), where the CB comes back from the tangent line only a little.
stun follow: a follow shot with only partial topspin (not full “natural roll”), where the CB goes forward of the tangent line only a little.
stun forward: same as “stun follow,” often applied to a straight shot.
stun run-through: “stun follow” with a straight shot.
stun through: same as “stun run-through.”
tweener: any CB spin or direction between stun and full roll or between stun and maximum backspin (i.e., "stun follow" or "stun draw").
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
"Stun follow," "stun run-through," "stun forward," and "stun through" can be used interchangeably; although, I agree that "stun run-through" is typically used only for a straight shot.

"Stun draw" and "stun back" are also used interchangeably.

I like to use the term "tweener" to describe any CB spin or path between stun and full roll or between stun and maximum backspin.

For those interested, I have lots of resource related to judging and using these types of shots here:

By the way, we use stun runthrough more than we think - it’s one of the ways we control carom angles.

pj
chgo
 

atlas333

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
We’re usually pretty good at stop shots at different distances - try shooting a stop shot at an imaginary object ball visualized a little closer to you than the actual OB, so it has just enough “rolling room” to roll the distance you want after collision. You can control the rollthrough distance by how much closer you visualize the “ghost OB”.

pj
chgo
That seems like a pretty good concept. I want to try that.
Thanks
Patrick
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
By the way, we use stun runthrough more than we think - it’s one of the ways we control carom angles.

pj
chgo
By "used," I meant "applied to." In other words, the term "stun run-through" is typically used only when referring to a straight "stun follow" shot.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
We’re usually pretty good at stop shots at different distances - try shooting a stop shot at an imaginary object ball visualized a little closer to you than the actual OB, so it has just enough “rolling room” to roll the distance you want after collision. You can control the rollthrough distance by how much closer you visualize the “ghost OB”.

Another way to do it, which is what I prefer, is to judge the stop-shot tip position for the speed you plan to use. Then raise the tip a hair if you want the CB to stun forward, or drop the tip a hair if you want the CB to stun back.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
By "used," I meant "applied to." In other words, the term "stun run-through" is typically used only when referring to a straight "stun follow" shot.
Yes, I was using the term carelessly as a catch-all for any kind of stun-x hit. Thanks for clarifying.

pj
chgo
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree. Tweener shots (to control carom angle) are used a lot by any decent player.
Good video.
Really had a difficult time deciphering this thread.
Seems everyone has a different definition of the same thing.
I tend to use that "tweener" shot when getting ball in hand in 9 or 10 ball
if my opponent scratches on the break.
You can be very exact with cue ball control with very little movement of the cueball.
Stun draw tweener.
If that makes any sense.
 

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Personally I prefer dead ball (draw,follow,etc) to the stun whatever terminology. Anyways it's a great shot to understand and use. It comes up frequently, the more comfortable a person becomes with it the more that person will find ways to use it.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Personally I prefer dead ball (draw,follow,etc) to the stun whatever terminology. Anyways it's a great shot to understand and use. It comes up frequently, the more comfortable a person becomes with it the more that person will find ways to use it.
"Dead" is the old American usage, such as in "Billiards As It Should Be Played". "Stun" is a UK/snooker term.

Shamos in his "Illustrated Encyclopedia" says that invention of the dead ball stroke is credited to Dudley Kavanagh during the period 1859-1860 (according to the NY Herald, Feb 20, 1890). Hoppe in his 1925 biography advised making the shot with the forearm rather than the wrist.

The old US term that is most like a stun shot is the "spread" shot -- the cue ball moving at a right angle to the OB.
 

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Dead" is the old American usage, such as in "Billiards As It Should Be Played". "Stun" is a UK/snooker term.

Shamos in his "Illustrated Encyclopedia" says that invention of the dead ball stroke is credited to Dudley Kavanagh during the period 1859-1860 (according to the NY Herald, Feb 20, 1890). Hoppe in his 1925 biography advised making the shot with the forearm rather than the wrist.

The old US term that is most like a stun shot is the "spread" shot -- the cue ball moving at a right angle to the OB.

Bob, I first learned it from the person that started teaching me pool many years ago. He came from a billiards, straight pool era before getting into 9 ball. Also it's mentioned in various books, treatises, and practice plates I had collected years ago, some of these are well over 100 years old. Really need to dig some of this stuff out and see what I have left, anyways. Most of the writings referred to the shot as the most important to master.
 

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's the kind of shot I was thinking of when I created this post. You've got to hit a window maybe 6-8 inches wide to shoot the 2 in the corner. To roll forward requires a pretty soft hit, but it's an easy shot. To me, the firmer/lower hit is a lot harder.

TinMan's analysis is top notch - Good work sir!!

I would like to bring up one other thing that wasn't touched upon yet when comparing the two shots (stun run-through vs slow rolling). Both options will get you good shape on the next ball but the two shots will not produce the exact same cue ball path. The majority of the time, the difference is negligible but it's important to know the differences and understand why, especially when pin point accuracy is needed.

With stun run-through, the cue ball is being hit harder with semi-stun which makes the object ball throw off line, much more so than a slow rolling shot. In order to hit center pocket, you need to adjust your aim accordingly to account for the additional throw. Since both incoming shot angles are different, the cue ball reaction angles after contact are also going to be different.

So even though both shots appear to be equal alternatives, they aren't exactly the same shot and in some cases only one of the two shots will produce the desired result, regardless of how good you hit it.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Another way to do it, which is what I prefer, is to judge the stop-shot tip position for the speed you plan to use. Then raise the tip a hair if you want the CB to stun forward, or drop the tip a hair if you want the CB to stun back.
thats how i was taught to shoot it
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TinMan's analysis is top notch - Good work sir!!

I would like to bring up one other thing that wasn't touched upon yet when comparing the two shots (stun run-through vs slow rolling). Both options will get you good shape on the next ball but the two shots will not produce the exact same cue ball path. The majority of the time, the difference is negligible but it's important to know the differences and understand why, especially when pin point accuracy is needed.

With stun run-through, the cue ball is being hit harder with semi-stun which makes the object ball throw off line, much more so than a slow rolling shot. In order to hit center pocket, you need to adjust your aim accordingly to account for the additional throw. Since both incoming shot angles are different, the cue ball reaction angles after contact are also going to be different.

So even though both shots appear to be equal alternatives, they aren't exactly the same shot and in some cases only one of the two shots will produce the desired result, regardless of how good you hit it.
I thought that stun creates more throw, but also that softer shots create more throw. I wonder if a firmer shot with less roll creates more or less throw, or if the two factors are just a wash and there’s no difference.
 
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