Does a Cue that does not have a patent have any value ?

The King said:
I have a freind who feels that any Custom cue that has no patent has no value ... That the only way for anything to hold value is for it to be patented ... ..
Click to expand...
A first step is to learn what patents are. Here's a useful link: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/patents.htm

Many people have very wrong ideas about what a patent is, how they're obtained and what they cover. One conclusion to draw from the link above is that no cue built before 1988 is covered by a patent. I play with a custom cue that was made in 1972 and I don't think of it as worthless.
 
After patents expire, anyone can copy it, and manufacture it. Most patents I've seen, have a life of 7 years. For example, Joe Gold, of Cognescenti Cues, originated the G-10 epoxy joint screw, for his cues. Nobody else could make a joint screw, using that material, until his patent expired. Now, lots of cuemakers use this material. Drug companies are another example. That's why they market the crap out of new drugs, at outrageous prices...because after 7 years, somebody else can make a generic, making the brand name drug obsolete.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

patrickcues said:
I think you can apply for a patent once the original holders time frame is up. I think it maybe is around 20 years or maybe 25 years.

I don't know much about patents but I find it hard to believe that someone could patent something that was showed to them several years before they had it patent.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
The King said:
Please understand that this is not a trolling thread nor is it a thread to start trouble anyone that knows me knows better then that ... This thread is serious and please refrain from calling my freind names he is a very good man , He would give you the shirt off his back and he is a smart business man who owns and operates his own business. He is also a very good pool player who has always shot with a low end cue like a Viper or Action or Players, He is the type of person a good person that you seldom find and one I am proud to call one of my best friends ...
Click to expand...

You are right and your friend is wrong. Let's say I have a spare pair of shoes and there is only pavement for miles around and the temp is 50 degrees. Those shoes aren't that important to anyone, so they're just spare shoes and they really have no value to anyone.

In a few weeks, the temp goes up to 100 degrees and you and two others have no shoes to wear, so you want my extra pair of shoes. Now, if I'm a smart businessman, I'm gonna sell those shoes to the highest bidder. THAT is value of the pair of shoes in that 100 degree weather.

The value is all about how much someone is willing to pay for something. If nobody wants it, the value is $0. As long as someone wants it, it has a value.
 
Unfortunately, you have opened the door for verbal attacks by implying that your friend believes most of the custom cues built have no value. There are cuemakers and resellers and simple everyday guys on this forum who have invested hundreds or thousands of dollars into cues. When someone comes along and says are worth nothing, because they don't have a patent, these guys are going to defend with fervor.

Your friend may be a good business man in some areas, but he is definitely not very smart in the area of pool cue value. It's a good thing he has a friend like you, who is interested in finding out the answer and helping him understand.

We all make the mistake of implying stupid things, once in a while. We also make the mistake of misinterpreting things, too. Hopefully, everyone will back off. It's great to ask questions, but sometimes, you have to consider the feelings of those you are asking.
 
I wanted to get the opinions of players that are around good cues and bad cues and thier thoughts on patents and if there is any truth to it ...
Click to expand...
The highlighted things above are not necessarily related. That is, I doubt that many (if any) pro or A+ players have relevant experience in patents - either getting them, asserting them, or defending against them.

However, many can speak to cue values independent of any patent value. Perhaps that is a better question to ask here on AZ. And actually, there are probably many threads on cue value here if you did a search.

In answer (generically) to your original question about patents though: a patent gives the patent owner the right to exclude others from practicing/making the invention in the patent. It does not give the patent owner the right to actually make the invention.

Also, each part of the pool cue could be patented independently. That is, there could be a patent on the butt cap, bumper, core, glue, bolts, wrap, forearm, points, inlays, joint, joint pin, shaft, ferrule, tip, etc. And the way the cue is made (the process of assembling) could also be patented. With this in mind, a cue may actually be subject to many patents in the same way a car is.

Typically, patent owners make make money by licensing their invention to others to make and sell. Or if there is a product that can be made by the patent owner without violating another patent with related technology, the patent owner could sell that product and excluding all others from making it during the life of the patent (which is (now) 20 years from filing).

Lastly, the value of the cue is still probably going to be dictated by the cue market. It could be protected by 100 patents, and it's still only worth what someone will pay for it.

-td
 
All my cues have value to ME...beyond that, I could really care less, as I certainly did not get them for their 'investment' value, or collectibility.

They are my players, and they have value to me as such.

Lisa
 
softshot said:
the difference in cue makers doesn't lie in patented construction techniques.

the difference in cue makers lies in wood selection and curing...

any cue maker can turn a shaft... the good ones know which shaft to turn...

JMHO
Click to expand...

...and if your friend is trying to buy your cue he may using this "no-patent" thing to give you the shaft.
 
King....and I do mean this with the utmost respect....please visualize your friend having that conversation sitting at the table with the likes of Fatboy, Tikkler, ibuycues...oh and Lucky for good measure..along with Barry Szamboti, Dennis Searing, Tony (Black Boar), and let's say..Bill Schick.*

The mind boggles!! :thud:

*the names mentioned for this particular visual exercise were plucked purely out of thin air, and mean no disrespect to all the other highly regarded collectors/master cue makers who could have fit the bill quite nicely.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
King....and I do mean this with the utmost respect....please visualize your friend having that conversation sitting at the table with the likes of Fatboy, Tikkler, ibuycues...oh and Lucky for good measure..along with Barry Szamboti, Dennis Searing, Tony (Black Boar), and let's say..Bill Schick.*

The mind boggles!! :thud:

*the names mentioned for this particular visual exercise were plucked purely out of thin air, and mean no disrespect to all the other highly regarded collectors/master cue makers who could have fit the bill quite nicely.

Lisa
Click to expand...

[size=+1]I just plucked Bucktooth purely out of thin air -- imagine that ..... weird huh. Something don't smell right.[/size]
Skunk%3ADeodorant.png
 
Your friend is not too bright. :embarrassed2:

The Gus Szamboti & George Balabushka cues I own don't have any patents. They still have great value though, easily worth over 35K. :cool:
 
Alright guys!! I think everyone should stop taking shots at the King's friend here. Have you ever heard the term " Lack of Knowledge" ! It is not the he is not smart, bright or whatever else people can come up with here. It is the lack of knowledge that he doesn't have. Does that make him stupid or dumb or not bright,,, NO it doesn't. How did you learn about the value of a cue? Or did you just know from the very first time or even second time you saw one. Plain and simple I don't know The King's friend but I do know him. I believe this is a heart felt question that The King's friend really doesn't know the answer too!
 
Thank you Doug ...

Hey everyone does not know as much as several of us do here at AZ ... not everyone is in the know concerning cues or even pool ... How many people do you see walk into a pool hall or bar with a Walmart cue and think they have the best cue in the world ... Or laugh and shake thier heads when they ask you were you got your cue and what you paid for it ... There are alot of people out there that just don't know any better or maybe just don't care and figure they can shoot with anything ...The question was a heart felt question and one that I wanted to seek opinions on because it often bothers me when someone has the opinion that buying a high priced cue is foolish ... I won several custom and will continue to own several ....
 
The King said:
I have a freind who feels that any Custom cue that has no patent has no value ... That the only way for anything to hold value is for it to be patented ... Do the major custom cue makers have patents? And how many people feel this is true ? I know alot of custom cue makers that don't have a patent on thier cues but they command a high price ... What does the world of AZ think about this ...
Click to expand...


as far as value, a diamond is only as valueble as the buyer thinks it is. I know that there are standards as to what something is worth, but it is only worth what you think it is. Just my thoughts on the value of stuff.
 
rackem said:
What about the uni-lock joint? Is there a patent there?
Click to expand...
Thats a very good unanswered question, IMO. And would like to add to it by asking if the Layani joint is protected by patent as well?


Justin Nuder
 
A lot of ideas don't get a patent because of the expiration. When it expires everyone now has the design and can then copy it. Some stuff is so easy to copy it may be worth getting the patent to help protect it for a while and during patent pending the time period gets extended a little more.

Somethings just don't need a patent and could also be unattainable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top