Does anyone here play tournaments, league, or sets... 100% knowing they won't win?

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Dumb question right? But I've seen a few guys (C+ players) enter a tournament (tour stop with known pros) just for the experience. They are simply donating and they know it.

And recently I was discussing Master's league with my teammates. We are a pair of sixes and a pair of sevens, and it looks like we don't have any chance in a hall that has AA players stacked up on several teams.

So, does anyone here actually play in situations where they know for sure they lose? Or do they always privately feel they have some small chance?

Does it make any sense to play 'for the experience' if you know you're going to lose? After all, that sort of takes the competitive pressure off... with no hope of winning you don't need to sweat every potential mistake.
 
Well....its definitely an attitude thing.

I play pro tournaments I know I "can't win" but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try.

But I don't play hoping I win, I play for the experience of that level of play and player that I know I won't ever see otherwise.

Yet I keep alive the shred of possibility that if I play my absolute best , anything is possible. Fwiw though , I'm not a C plyer either. ;)

Its all positive mentally in any case.
 
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In my opinion it s all about to have the correct attitude. If you have the right attitude, you will benefit always from playing very strong players- it should force yourself to make as less mistakes as possible and you can learn a lot of watching them, how they outplay you sometimes, watching their rythem etc. etc. --

And as a 6 or 7 as you rate yourself, you will be sure also be able to runout perhaps 2-3 games in a row. So why shouldn t that give you and your friends a *boost* ? Important is just, that you don t get depressive if you perhaps lose too much and too high (sometimes).

again- attitude is the key :)

keep shooting Creedo and have a smooth stroke :)

lg
Ingo
 
Every tournament I have entered (except for one local tournament) in the last three years I pretty much figured I'd go 2-and-out in (and did :embarrassed2:).

I'm about to embark on my first session of Masters in which I do not expect to do well in. But....in the last three sessions of mini-Masters I had records of 9-4, 10-2, then 12-1, so at least at age 59, I'm still improving:thumbup:!!!

I'd rather play, get whipped and learn something than to play, win, and accomplish nothing. Many people are just too hung-up on the winning/losing aspect to even enjoy the game. I find the game to be extremely fun AND educational. I don't think you can ever completely learn all there is to know in the game of pool in your lifetime (well, unless you're an Earl-type ;)) .

Just FTR CreeDo, I'm an APA s/l 7 in 9-ball and a s/l 6 in 8-ball and consider myself to be a C to C+ player on the days I am shooting my norm. Am I over-rating myself, or do you think this is a fair assessment? Serious question.

Maniac
 
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Yes. Just because you don't, or can't, win the tournament, doesn't mean that you can't win something! Playing against your own caliber of player only can make you get lazy. You may take the attitude of "well, I know I will get back to the table soon". Playing a top player, you can learn to change that attitude to one of "I better do what I can while I have a chance to."

That change alone can up you a level without increasing your skill at all. You have the same skills, just that now you take the full advantage of them instead of being a little lazy with them. So, you come out a "winner" that can pay much more dividends over time than what first place in the tourney would have given you.
 
I played in LOTS of tourneys I had no business playing in (from a "win:loss" perspective). I'd even travel a 100 miles to do it. IMO, the reason I'm an OK player today is because I took my lumps back then.

Others in my area won't play unless a healthy handicap is involved...which is why I can & do give them games on the wire today.
 
I've got a list of players I haven't beat yet. The best way to have a chance at beating them is playing in tournaments I have little chance of winning.

The funny thing is, every once in a while I do win the tournament.
 
I've known a few guys over the years that would enter tourneys and go 1-2 and out more than 90% of the time.

I had one friend that would actually pray to pull the #1 seed in the first round. He told me how else could he play a great player as cheap as the entry fee in a tournament.

To him it was exciting and gave him bragging rights that he had actually got to play a great player.

I remember one time, one of these guys got into the low end money and after the tourney was over, asked the TD if he could have the tourney chart to take home with him. Man, was he proud. You'd a thought he whipped the world. LOL


Stones
 
Yup, have to step into the box sometime

Yea I do. Im not a great player, probably around B speed, but for some reason when I play people alot better than me people say I jump up a level. I'm rated a 6/7 in apa 9 ball and I've been playing cheap sets with a friend who is rated a 9. First time I ever played him in a set, I was a 5 borderline 6 then, I broke and ran on him and played one hell of set. Won that one and then played another and my foot never went off the gas. I don't play that well consistently for that long and at the time amazed myself. My mind set was I might not win this, but you're going to have one hell of a tough time beating me. Half way through the first set it changed to "damn it, I'm taking this". Fast forward a session and my confidence went up along with my rating because I was playing someone alot better than myself constantly with pressure.

I have started to enter events at the action pool tour and continually get my ass kicked but my races are always close. I probably consider myself one of the bottom 3 at these events but my level of play is impressive to me. I learned there how to really come back from being behind and that this game is really all mental. First match I ever played on the tour was 10-ball where I was playing a regular to the tour who was definitely more consistent than me. He got me down 4-0 before I won 6 in a row with 1 break and run to make it 6-4 me. I guess I let up a little and lost 8-6, but that little run came because my mindset went back to "I want to win".

My advice for anyone trying to get better, take it for whatever it's worth, is to go out and play the best competition. Don't be afraid to play them and get that idea of "you're going to get crushed" out of your head. You have to play the best people with the idea that you are going to bury them/hand them a donut in a set. Have to step up to the plate.

Damn thats a long post, but happy shooting :D
 
RRfireblade said:
Well....its definitely an attitude thing.

I play pro tournaments I know I "can't win" but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try.

But I don't play hoping I win, I play for the experience of that level of play and player that I know I won't ever see otherwise.

Yet I keep alive the shred of possibility that if I play my absolute best , anything is possible. Fwiw though , I'm not a C plyer either. ;)

Its all positive mentally in any case.
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What he said.

I find playing those better than I am makes me better in the long run. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised at my results.

I've had some of my peers give me crap about it, though, as if I am not supposed to play against better players until I've earned the privilege. Life's too short sometimes to wait.

Jeff Livingston
 
In a big tournament with all real good players, I just hope to get a good draw and cash and break even.

In the local small tournaments, I don't expect to win but breaking even would be good, but I win 50% of the time.


20 years ago I would enter big tournaments and if I actually beat one person, it was like winning. Of course that was against the best players in the USA.
 
I think being able to play in a league or situations where most of the players are better than me would be opportunity.There is much info to gather and situations to learn that can be carried over to a more average league or tourney,that is where you will be able to measure any improvement on a regular basis.

You live in an urban area.It really is an advantage to be able to have more choices in how you shape your game.Take full advantage.Better players make better players as long as the one seeking to rise isn't overwhelmed by consistently putting themselves in situations where they aren't getting the best of it.

Be a dog one day and be a favorite the next but don't become discouraged or fall in love with any results.Pushing the envelope can be the most fun part.
 
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I usually think I have a chance but know that it's less likely that I will win. But if you never play against better players I think you will always play at a lower level. Better competition usually brings out my A-game, now I just need to figure out how to always bring my A-game instead of playing to the level of my competition!
 
it all comes down to what your goals are. if u are happy with only the pool leauge or fairly easy bar tournys then u might not want to compete at the higher levels.... but if u want to improve then playing in high level tournaments is 100% worth it for many reasons.....
 
Losing isn't the end of the world...

CreeDo said:
Dumb question right? But I've seen a few guys (C+ players) enter a tournament (tour stop with known pros) just for the experience. They are simply donating and they know it.

And recently I was discussing Master's league with my teammates. We are a pair of sixes and a pair of sevens, and it looks like we don't have any chance in a hall that has AA players stacked up on several teams.

So, does anyone here actually play in situations where they know for sure they lose? Or do they always privately feel they have some small chance?

Does it make any sense to play 'for the experience' if you know you're going to lose? After all, that sort of takes the competitive pressure off... with no hope of winning you don't need to sweat every potential mistake.
Click to expand...

In any competition there are are two possible outcomes, either you win or you lose. Neither is an earth-shaking event.
Efren, and countless others with such wisdom, remind us that you have to lose before you learn how to win...

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
Maniac said:
I'd rather play, get whipped and learn something than to play, win, and accomplish nothing. Many people are just too hung-up on the winning/losing aspect to even enjoy the game. I find the game to be extremely fun AND educational. I don't think you can ever completely learn all there is to know in the game of pool in your lifetime (well, unless you're an Earl-type ;)) .
Click to expand...

Spot on ! :thumbup:

Sometimes it isn't all about winning. Don't get me wrong its great to win, especially against certain players. I shot an MVP tournament a few weeks ago and while waiting between 8-ball and 9-ball I entered a board. As luck had it I drew the best guy in the area for my 1st opponent. Yes, I was his rack-boy (beat me bad 65-15 ! :frown: ), and learning from him is all you can do. I played him once before, so I knew right away I was in trouble. Make matters worse; my aim was a little off leaving me more rattles and hangers than usual.
He played with his usual intensity,(he's a 7 &9 in 8-9ball), leaving me dry every time I came to the table. He has the ability to spot the ball from anywhere on the table and leave it within an inch of where he wants it. He does it time and again. So,... he pockets a few racks, then "misses", and leaves me with a jam that i'm lucky to hit let-alone pocket. Did I enjoy it ?? You bet yer AZ I did, he did too,............. told him when he hit 40 that I was threw being "nice" to him,....:rolleyes: he just laughed. :D He helps me a lot with shots when I ask him and YES, he is practically an "Earl-type"
 
The way i see it to get better you must play better player and a mind set to win an learn with while your there trust it will help
 
So it looks like a few people really do just donate for the experience, but most have at least some faint hope they'll shoot the match of their lives at at least cash in.

I like Neil's answer... I guess we all have a certain maximum skill level based on knowledge, mechanics, shotmaking, patterns, etc... the problem is we don't reach that maximum all the time. In fact you may not play your best even 10% of the time. You might go weeks without seeing your A game come out. But if you go against tough competition it'll come out more often.

I don't like answers that basically revolve around "By playing pros I'll learn something and get better". Practically speaking, what's the difference if you're sitting in a chair watching the pro, as an opponent... vs. sitting in a chair and watching him as a spectator? You don't have to pay if you want to watch and learn.

The other night, I played someone and brought out my B+ game, with a few runouts in a race to 7, and I even shat in a lucky 9 ball... and I still lost. So it's discouraging to play in an environment where even if you play your hardest you can still lose.

---

Ratta: As you said, occasionally I'll run 2-3 racks in a row, which is enough to win a lot of tournaments... so I don't have a bad mindset like "oh, I have zero chance here". I know I would have some chance. But, at the same time, I hate to spend money just for 'experience'. I don't think I'd pay 50 to play efren just to tell my friends "I played efren". I prefer to learn things for free where possible. Maybe some things you can't learn for free.

Maniac: Sounds pretty fair to me. There's no real standard for rating, so I dunno... When I was young if you told me there's a scale of C-B-A-AA-AAA-Open-Shortstop-Pro, I'd have told you "oh I'm at least an A"... later I read some post on here that described a C as someone who occasionally ran racks, sometimes 2 or 3 in a row, and I was like... "wow, how depressing, I guess I'm a C".

APA numbers are especially deceptive because the overall average strength of your league/pool hall can skew it by as much as 2 digits. Guys from out of town who were in the APA in a weaker hall... come to our semi tough hall and and immediately drop a rank. We've had people ***** about 3's running 5 balls in a row, or 4's running out, but in our hall that's not unusual.
 
I play regardless. It all really depends on how you view it. I watch as much as I can and take in as much as I can. I always learn something new. People who focus on their entry fee are wasting their time.
 
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