Stay on track here, friends and neighbors. This post isn't about pool tournaments, but about the influence that the 'league mentality' has on pool tournaments.
Does anyone want to improve their game?
- Thread starter Doug the horse
- Start date
I think the key is to show a genuine interest in improving and a genuine interest in what it is they do.
If you approach a player with that attitude you will receive help more often than not.
Tournaments
We used to have a 32 man tourn. every Saturday no handicap. It usually had a waiting list. Now we cant get 20 with a rigged handicap. Between the baggers and the AA vulchers who cut up the calcuttas no good playing hard working guys want to donate/ People used to want to be the A players now they just want to win(rob).I recently played in the Iowa state tourn. and saw an old friend John (Omaha)Shupit. John after many years off has taught himself to play lefthanded Talk about love of the game and heart.Yes not pro level but played as a 9 in the masters.He lost to the *******5 and 6 ******* with no heart.And did it with class.Ah for the old days.
We used to have a 32 man tourn. every Saturday no handicap. It usually had a waiting list. Now we cant get 20 with a rigged handicap. Between the baggers and the AA vulchers who cut up the calcuttas no good playing hard working guys want to donate/ People used to want to be the A players now they just want to win(rob).I recently played in the Iowa state tourn. and saw an old friend John (Omaha)Shupit. John after many years off has taught himself to play lefthanded Talk about love of the game and heart.Yes not pro level but played as a 9 in the masters.He lost to the *******5 and 6 ******* with no heart.And did it with class.Ah for the old days.
Doug the horse
Registered
That is pretty much the same thing I see going on here. When there is a decent turnout small groups of players agree to "cut-up" any winnings and it is very common for the final 2 or 3 players to not even finish out the tournament. The league players are always on the hunt for good players that don't have an established handicap so they can sandbag their way to an undeserved trophy. For a group of people who are so concerned about keeping things"fair" with a handicap system they sure are quick to try and cheat their own system. I still say leagues are a good thing. Just NOT in a pool hall tournament!
Doug the horse
Registered
I agree. Just because I enjoy running doesn't mean everyone else at the marathon should slow down so I have a chance to win. And the starting line is the same for everyone. It would be very unrealistic for me to "expect "to have a chance the other athletes have been training for years. Do you think they would make the race shorter for someone "handicapped" and then declare them the winner if they crossed the finish line first? No, they would be the first placed "handicapped" runner, not the winner! Being the best because you are the best is a true winner. And playing your own personal best should mean more to us than a couple bucks!
Here's a format that worked around here even when there were a lot of handicapped events available: 9 ball, race to 3, single elimination, $5 to get in. I suppose these days it would be $10.
Handicaps have their place. And they dang sure didn't stunt the growth of golf in anyway! All this BS about socialism is a joke!
There are many facets to playing a game. One of them being social players. Another being competitive players. They both have their place in the world.
Obviously most of those posting in this thread are competitive players. That's cool. But don't damn the social players because they have a life which does not involve multiple hours a week on the table.
As far as me....
I spent last Friday night going 2 and out in a tournament that I had to give some wild spots to weaker players. I run that tournament and created the wild spots I had to give. Saturday was spent racing to 5 while others went to 2-3. I split 1st and 2nd in that one. Sunday was a practice day. And then last night I spent losing badly to Joey Gray. I love the game. I don't mind losing. I prefer winning. But I am in no way a social player. But without the social player we would all be playing on our home table remembering the glory days when we got to go to a pool room and play against strangers.
If you are ever in OKC look me up. I promise all the even $5 a game rotation you can stand!
Ken
p.s. In OKC we had handicap events 20+ years ago as well. I was fortunate enough to get to double dip Norman Hitchcock. I was a 6 and he was a 9. My edge was that he was 70 something and the final was played from about 2am to 4am. He won all that money back later in a gambling match. Wish I had a chance to lose more to him! Who knows...since he would be about 100 now I might be able to even win!
There are many facets to playing a game. One of them being social players. Another being competitive players. They both have their place in the world.
Obviously most of those posting in this thread are competitive players. That's cool. But don't damn the social players because they have a life which does not involve multiple hours a week on the table.
As far as me....
I spent last Friday night going 2 and out in a tournament that I had to give some wild spots to weaker players. I run that tournament and created the wild spots I had to give. Saturday was spent racing to 5 while others went to 2-3. I split 1st and 2nd in that one. Sunday was a practice day. And then last night I spent losing badly to Joey Gray. I love the game. I don't mind losing. I prefer winning. But I am in no way a social player. But without the social player we would all be playing on our home table remembering the glory days when we got to go to a pool room and play against strangers.
If you are ever in OKC look me up. I promise all the even $5 a game rotation you can stand!
Ken
p.s. In OKC we had handicap events 20+ years ago as well. I was fortunate enough to get to double dip Norman Hitchcock. I was a 6 and he was a 9. My edge was that he was 70 something and the final was played from about 2am to 4am. He won all that money back later in a gambling match. Wish I had a chance to lose more to him! Who knows...since he would be about 100 now I might be able to even win!
Doug the horse
Registered
You make many good points. I tend to agree with you. My point is that weekly competitive events for players that are more than social and less than touring pros are almost non existent these days. There are plenty of leagues and handicap tourneys for ball banging social types. What ever happened to the heads up race where everyone can test their true abilities, not on a sliding scale. I used to play pool in a pool hall that sold food. Now I play pool in a restaurant that has pool tables! Pool was the reason to be there and now its a secondary thing to keep people around while eating and drinking.
I do not mind playing open tournaments even though I have only been playing about 4 years now. I realize that I need to improve my game, a lot, and playing better players helps me learn. The only ones I usually stay away from are the high roller tournaments, $100.00 and 16 player field. I would play better players all day races to 5 for $10.00, its a great education for a low cost. Playing better players also makes me play better, or at least try harder then if I was just playing in a bar. I cant figure out why a guy has no problem spending $40 a night on his bar tab but refuses to invest $10 in himself for a tournament, especially for players who do want to up their game. My good friend who actually got me into the game loves pool, wants to improve, and has a table in his basement, thinks a good night of practice is going to the bar and playing for the table. He is not much of a drinker either, I don't understand his strategy. He also will drive 50 miles to some of the bigger tournaments, watch me and others play some, but never enters any himself.
You sir have hit the nail on the head with the red text above!
Us pool bums gotta get it where we can though!
Best of luck on your return! If you are in Vegas for BCA nationals message me here and maybe we can play some cheap 10 ball!
Ken
I don't get it - everyone is here *****ing about how these entitled socialist bar banging league players are the scum of the earth because they don't want to get better - they just want to win. And the complaints stem from the fact that at a handicapped tournament, you find it harder to win.....
You feel that because of all the hard work you have put in, lesser players should have to just donate money and pay their dues. Why are you playing in the tournaments then? Go play in open tournaments at the SBE, or any number of regional tournaments and pony up the money and continue your 'education' till you can hang with the pros.
The lack of good players at the pro level is not because of league bangers - it's because of shortstops that believe that they are entitled to rob people of lesser ability while they avoid bettering themselves up the chain because they might lose (insert topic about how hard it is to make money unless you are a top tier pro player here)
You feel that because of all the hard work you have put in, lesser players should have to just donate money and pay their dues. Why are you playing in the tournaments then? Go play in open tournaments at the SBE, or any number of regional tournaments and pony up the money and continue your 'education' till you can hang with the pros.
The lack of good players at the pro level is not because of league bangers - it's because of shortstops that believe that they are entitled to rob people of lesser ability while they avoid bettering themselves up the chain because they might lose (insert topic about how hard it is to make money unless you are a top tier pro player here)
I have found that handicapped events make my top players stronger. But only once they wipe off the tears and bear down. And all of a sudden they are playing a ball better because they are being challenged. It is really a win win scenario when done right.
Ken
Banks
Banned
Socialism and all kinds of other nonsense.. how about not taking that added money then? Oh, that's right, you all want freebies. People are acting like a small weekly is going to teach people how to play pool, too, and that businesses host them just to reinforce a hierarchy of pool players. If you really think a dozen games once a week is going to make a huge difference, you're about as delusional as those that cry about handicaps, but expect free money from a business.
Must be something in the chalk that blocks rational thought.
Must be something in the chalk that blocks rational thought.
Doug the horse
Registered
It's great to have people around who strive to improve, and I'm sure you wil! Where else can you go for $10 and be not only competitive but social and entertained! As far as your friend goes, some people don't like to play outside of their comfort zone.
Doug the horse
Registered
Sounds like someone reached a low plateau and can't or doesn't care about improving. But you still want to be a "winner"!!!! Just how hard do you pat yourself on the back when you win getting the 5 ball. And who said league players are scum? Leagues are great for the game and the players! Some of us who aren't pros would still like to compete on a level playing field that's all that's being said here.
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Doug the horse
Registered
I couldn't agree more with you pepper! That is exactly the same sort of thing I have going on here. I'm not interested in being on a team with a bunch of cheating sandbaggers! Some of these handicaps are crazy and in a race to 3 winner breaks you can find yourself packing up and heading home pretty quick. There always seems to be some unknown 3 or 4 level player showing up that jumps balls banks well and kicks like Chuck Norris. The only person who knows the guy is the one running the tournament. Hmmmmm coincidence, I don't think so!
Rotation, you say? Well, that pretty much sums it all up right there, doesn't it? :smile:
Tramp, I love your sense of humor! I would gladly play any game of your choosing to spend the day with you!
But I am real good at counting to 9, 10, or 15 so rotation is the game for me!
Ken
Tramp, I love your sense of humor! I would gladly play any game of your choosing to spend the day with you!
But I am real good at counting to 9, 10, or 15 so rotation is the game for me!
Ken
You're better off than I am. I can only count to eight. As in eight and out.