Seems like this answers your own question. If life were fair, everyone would play even and the lower players would lose. But life isn't fair, and tournaments use some kind of handicap system.
newsflash
Does anyone want to improve their game?
- Thread starter Doug the horse
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Seems like this answers your own question. If life were fair, everyone would play even and the lower players would lose. But life isn't fair, and tournaments use some kind of handicap system.
newsflash
Doug the horse
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I'm glad to see that there are objective people here. It's easy to look at things from only the perspective that fits your situation (strong or weaker,tourney or league player). There is room for everyone in the pool world. I just hate to see the traditional heads up style tournaments disappearing. APA wasn't established until 1981 and has grown in popularity since and there are a ton of events that cater to them( mostly because someone is getting rich off the participants). But that's another subject. For all of us who played in the 70s we remember the feeling of accomplishment of winning against a player who used to beat you!
What if player A has played, practiced, and spent 5x what player B has and still needs that spot to make a fair game? There are a lot of players that would need more weight than that from me who have played, practiced, and spent more than I have. Maybe they're not practicing right, or don't have natural coordination, or can't focus. Do I deserve their money?
Gambling and these weekly tournaments are different creatures. There is little negotiation in handicapp tournaments, although they breed a lot of bit**in. Most players that complain about good players running over their weekly tourney, wouldn't gamble a nikel on their own ability anyhow.
I have already conceded that a handicapp is necessary to maintain a weekly tournament. And I also don't expect most people playing in these small tournaments to understand that $10 a week is a small price to pay in order to compete against higher caliber players. It takes passion and dedication to know that you are "dead money", yet still want to play in order to improve. I accept that it is the state of pool today, and that pool requires the casual players to stay afloat. I just can't understand the mindset that refuses to participate in a cheap tournament because the competition is too stiff. If the top five players in the world wanted to play in one of my weekly tournaments, I would be chomping at the bit to donate my $10 to test my metal against them. But that's just me I guess. To each their own
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You deserve their money more than they deserve yours. This is still a competition. Maybe they need a new hobby. Or perhaps we shouldn't keep score and everyone gets their entry back and use the added money to buy everyone a trophie?
this may even bring SJD out of retirement
Maybe the worst player in the tournament should win the most money...and a trophy. :thumbup: - heck, this may even bring SHD out of retirement.
Maybe the worst player in the tournament should win the most money...and a trophy. :thumbup: - heck, this may even bring SHD out of retirement.
This is what's wrong with the world today, everybody gets a trophy, therefore no one has any incentive to get better, sad.
Doug the horse
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It seems like a lot of people share that sentiment. I think there should be a "participation acknowledgement " for league play. For some people it's a good time social outing that's not taken too seriously and their handicap will never be more than 2 or 3. They are a necessary segment of the league and their play should be appreciated. But not at tournaments where players are there to test their skills against stronger player and further advance their game!
Maybe each player in the tournament should have a chance to win money if they are playing well. Pool players have such a sense of entitlement. They expect the room to add money and then they won't order anything except water and want free table time. It is sad really.
Just have everyone play even based on skill level. Let the 5 grandmasters play only each other and see how often that group shows up. They don't want a challenge or they would not care about giving up weight. Let the BCA open players only play each other and you may have 20-30 people show up on a regular basis.
The vast majority of players are amateurs who play nowhere near pro level. They are the ones you need to show up to weekly tournaments to make the tournament successful.
The bottom line is if you don't like handicap tournaments, then don't play in them.
There are so many things in life to get all bent out of shape over.
Let's see.....there's terrorism.....death......taxes.......
Handicapped pool tournaments are pretty far down on my list.
I would be really pleased if there was an active, lively, regular handicapped tournament near me. Instead, there are just the league affiliated tourneys that I can't play in and the occasional open event that more times than not I can't make.
I use to be that guy that complained about the handicapped tourneys all the while going on about the demise of our society. Saying things like everybody wants everything handed to them and all that. But the reality is people don't like getting their brained bashed in over and over. It gets old after a while, especially if you play pool for FUN. For many of us, pool is more than just a game. It's certainly not just about having fun for me but when you actually get to know a few people that do just play for fun you start to understand why they aren't so interested in getting beat every week. What's the point to them?
Handicapped tourneys have their place and so does just playing the game for fun. Actually we need more people playing just for fun, preferably more young kids. After all, this is where the passion for the game begins. The more people we have playing pool for fun the better off we will all be.
Let's see.....there's terrorism.....death......taxes.......
Handicapped pool tournaments are pretty far down on my list.
I would be really pleased if there was an active, lively, regular handicapped tournament near me. Instead, there are just the league affiliated tourneys that I can't play in and the occasional open event that more times than not I can't make.
I use to be that guy that complained about the handicapped tourneys all the while going on about the demise of our society. Saying things like everybody wants everything handed to them and all that. But the reality is people don't like getting their brained bashed in over and over. It gets old after a while, especially if you play pool for FUN. For many of us, pool is more than just a game. It's certainly not just about having fun for me but when you actually get to know a few people that do just play for fun you start to understand why they aren't so interested in getting beat every week. What's the point to them?
Handicapped tourneys have their place and so does just playing the game for fun. Actually we need more people playing just for fun, preferably more young kids. After all, this is where the passion for the game begins. The more people we have playing pool for fun the better off we will all be.
This post kind of threw me off....Handicap was meant to level the playing field. You just said "Some of us who aren't pros want to complete on a level playing field", that implies you don't enter pro am regional tournaments or any of the tournaments that the pros play in because you don't feel that you can compete with them. So why then would a player that would get handicap want to play against you if they feel as if they can't compete?
Doug the horse
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Well, maybe that is my point! I'm not claiming to play at that level and don't expect them to give me a spot so I feel like it's Fair. Just like I don't want to give an unreasonable spot to someone who really shouldn't be trying to be competitive with anyone. There is plenty of events for lower level players, like leagues, where their low handicap is NEEDED and their participation is wanted.
Doug the horse
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Have you ever been beat by the village idiot? You know, the guy who who yells out loud or throws his cue or pool balls when he misses a shot straight in the hole or one that is way above his skill level? Or worse yet the guy who just slams into the balls hoping and praying something falls in. These are the non stop criers who I am referring too. It's not rocket science if you suck, you suck! Take some lessons get a coach. Don't make it my problem. I paid my dues! And if you play great and want to be surrounded by a bunch of hacks so there's a bigger pot to win, then you suck too!
I have. He played better than he normally does and I didn't play up to par. What did I do after it? I shook his hand, said good game and hit the tables because unless he ran out on you every time you obviously did something wrong to give him the chance to win.
Low level players have the right to play tournaments as much as anyone does, hell at most tournaments the lower levels are the biggest divisions. If we are talking about people sandbagging that's a whole different topic but I love the small handicap tournaments that lets lower guys have a chance because I bring a lot of new people in the game and it gives them tournament experience. But then again most of the ones I bring in want to improve their game, they don't like being the highest capped player and it motivates them to get better so they don't get that size spot. If you're stuck in an area where people just want to stay the level they are at it probably does get frustrating but talk to a room owner and run an open tournament and see how many you get.
Now I am confused. You say "where their participation is wanted". Does that mean only players of a certain level or higher should be allowed to play in tournaments?
I have never heard anyone say they want less players in tournaments.
When do we get to see a video of you playing the ghost?
I've seen the exact opposite...
Maybe it's cause these are player's that play in TAP instead of APA or whatever, but the guys that I've played in handicapped tourneys have said that they don't mind losing to me.
One guy recently said (after looking at his stats for the match) "I played good and you still ran over me, but I like that. It forces me to play better".
I don't mind giving up weight. Sometimes I run over the tournament and sometimes I don't, sometimes I go two and out. Fading 7-2 playing bar box eightball can be tough, but I like it. It doesn't let me get away with slouching on the job and it gives players coming up in the game a chance.
Jaden
Maybe it's cause these are player's that play in TAP instead of APA or whatever, but the guys that I've played in handicapped tourneys have said that they don't mind losing to me.
One guy recently said (after looking at his stats for the match) "I played good and you still ran over me, but I like that. It forces me to play better".
I don't mind giving up weight. Sometimes I run over the tournament and sometimes I don't, sometimes I go two and out. Fading 7-2 playing bar box eightball can be tough, but I like it. It doesn't let me get away with slouching on the job and it gives players coming up in the game a chance.
Jaden
Doug the horse
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And that is sportsmanship at its finest! When it happens, I take my lumps and do the same thing. There is a huge difference between players who want to improve and those who are arguing to keep their handicap lower than it should be and have some sense of entitlement. I hope other areas of the country aren't experiencing the same thing I am here.
Doug the horse
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I don't play with ghosts! But I might play YOU!
they should at least be have an incentive to get better. imho
Pool players aren't the only ones with a "sense of entilement," many Americans want to actually be paid every day for the work they've done.
I'm fine with handicap tournaments, just not if they give the lesser players the advantage, they should at least be have an incentive to get better. imho
Pool players aren't the only ones with a "sense of entilement," many Americans want to actually be paid every day for the work they've done.
I'm fine with handicap tournaments, just not if they give the lesser players the advantage, they should at least be have an incentive to get better. imho