Does handle wood affect the "HIT"
- Thread starter Fish
- Start date
What's the forearm?
Cored ebony or not?
Cored ebony or not?
dave sutton
Banned
yes the handle does matter.
i think this is why full splice cues play more solid than short splice cues. yes it is one pc of solid wood but i think hardwoods like rosewood make a better cue than maple.
weight will be a problem with a full ebony handle that isnt cored. then i think coring changes the entire dynamic of the hardwood. should have just used maple. thats why some cuemakers dont core.
also most ppl like the hardwood nose sw cues better. im pretty sure they arent cored
i think this is why full splice cues play more solid than short splice cues. yes it is one pc of solid wood but i think hardwoods like rosewood make a better cue than maple.
weight will be a problem with a full ebony handle that isnt cored. then i think coring changes the entire dynamic of the hardwood. should have just used maple. thats why some cuemakers dont core.
also most ppl like the hardwood nose sw cues better. im pretty sure they arent cored
Last edited:
Fish said:
It could be said that every component affects the hit or feel of the Q. We've gone over this often here. The hit( in my opinion), is affected MOST by the hardness of the tip, ferrule material, joint material & taper of the shaft. A Q with 2 heavy woods like Ebony & Cocobolo, would give you a VERY butt heavy Q. The Qmaker & you would have to decide which pieces to core with lighter woods, in order to get the balance point where you want it. It has little to do with the hit & more to do with balance. One option might be a Maple handle, with a black stain on it...JER
bocote into ebony seems like a good combo.
I follow the logic that the handle is just as important as the tip. No matter what anybody says or tells me, my experience tells me that the handle is mother base of the entire cue, the heart & soul. It is what contacts the grip hand & is what gives the foundation for the forearm & shaft. So no matter how great your shaft, tip, ferrule, joint & forearm are, if the handle sucks then the entire cue will suck. Cheaping out here will ruin your cue. Use good wood.
qbilder said:
Hi Greg; I think if you reread the preveous posts, you will find that NO ONE has suggested that he go CHEAP or use woods that were not good. He asked about the 3 woods in his post, Cocobolo, Maple & Ebony. All of these woods are good, but the choice of the 2 heavier ones may result in a heavier cue than he might want, unless they are cored. Like I said in my post "It could be said that every component affects the hit or feel of the Q". I am agreeing with you on that. HAVE A GREAT DAY...JER
"Hi Greg; I think if you reread the preveous posts, you will find that NO ONE has suggested that he go CHEAP or use woods that were not good. He asked about the 3 woods in his post, Cocobolo, Maple & Ebony. All of these woods are good, but the choice of the 2 heavier ones may result in a heavier cue than he might want, unless they are cored. Like I said in my post "It could be said that every component affects the hit or feel of the Q". I am agreeing with you on that. HAVE A GREAT DAY...JER"
Jerry, I was not arguing anything posted. I understood the question he asked as if the handle affects the hit of the cue. I answered that question with no regard to any other posts, based on my opinion and gave some of my thought process behind it. No harm intended toward any individual. I'm also not Greg. I'm Eric. Close but no cigar
Just please don't call me Bob or Joe :0
"Would rosewoods such as Macassar Ebony be better than maple ?"
I think so. It really depends on the particular piece of maple. I have noticed that heavily figured birdseye tends to often be "dead" and very low tonal quality. Rosewoods are awesome handles, but heavy. Macassar ebony is not exactly a rosewood, but is solid & of good tonal quality. The trick will be getting the weight right without compromising the qualities of the woods used. Think of wood like a telephone cable and your grip hand the reciever. Do you want something that'll transmit clear signal or something that'll muffle & dampen the signal? Your grip hand feels everything going on in the cue during impact of the ball. The woods used in the cue determine how much "feel" will be transmitted to your hand. Some maple is great, but some of the heavy figure birdseye is closer to burl wood, which is dull. I'd go for the macassar if your builder can swing the weight. Might be even better to use a nicely figured piece of East Indian rosewood. Lightweight like maple but dark like macassar. Just my personal opinion. It's ultimately your choice as it's your cue.
Eric Crisp
Sugartree Customs
Jerry, I was not arguing anything posted. I understood the question he asked as if the handle affects the hit of the cue. I answered that question with no regard to any other posts, based on my opinion and gave some of my thought process behind it. No harm intended toward any individual. I'm also not Greg. I'm Eric. Close but no cigar
Just please don't call me Bob or Joe :0"Would rosewoods such as Macassar Ebony be better than maple ?"
I think so. It really depends on the particular piece of maple. I have noticed that heavily figured birdseye tends to often be "dead" and very low tonal quality. Rosewoods are awesome handles, but heavy. Macassar ebony is not exactly a rosewood, but is solid & of good tonal quality. The trick will be getting the weight right without compromising the qualities of the woods used. Think of wood like a telephone cable and your grip hand the reciever. Do you want something that'll transmit clear signal or something that'll muffle & dampen the signal? Your grip hand feels everything going on in the cue during impact of the ball. The woods used in the cue determine how much "feel" will be transmitted to your hand. Some maple is great, but some of the heavy figure birdseye is closer to burl wood, which is dull. I'd go for the macassar if your builder can swing the weight. Might be even better to use a nicely figured piece of East Indian rosewood. Lightweight like maple but dark like macassar. Just my personal opinion. It's ultimately your choice as it's your cue.
Eric Crisp
Sugartree Customs
A novice reading this could easily interpret this to mean that Birdseye would be a bad choice for making a cue.qbilder said:
i would say it is pretty clear that he said some "heavily" figured Birdseye has a dead hit.i agree with Eric that all pieces have an impact on the hit.i have read some peoples comments here and elsewhere saying that after the shaft nothing else really matters and i have always felt they are wrong.his theory on the handle being where the hand is and feeling everything makes sense to me as well.good post.
masonh said:
Then to carry this one step forward, could you say that putting a wrap on the handle, would dampen the feeling or feed back of the hit?...JER
The beauty of building a custom cue............someone will pick it up and think it's the best thing next to sliced bread.............
It will change the way the cue plays.
Every input changes the output.
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
It will change the way the cue plays.
Every input changes the output.
tap, tap, tap... The fell and hit is in the eye of the beholder. I can build two identical cues, and they both hit different. It might be the handle wood is more dense, or the leather on the tip is harder or softer than the other. Lets face it, the hit depends on the player. Some players do not even understand what a good or bad hit is. Actually I may not know what a good or bad hit is. The handle wood is very important IMO on a cue, but with most customers the diameter and wrap selection is VERY important.BarenbruggeCues said:
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I will wade in a little here, pardon the somewhat philisophical slant....
I would say the answer to your question is yes. The next question is how much of a difference is there? Does the difference override preference or feel or looks? For some maybe yes, for some, definitely no.
IMO, a cue and its performance is made up by the total sum of its parts. If that wasn't the case, why would we go to such great lengths in areas that people would not even think about? We follow our convictions.
What builders probably disagree most on is what percentage each builder attaches to the individual parts, how they are weighted in the total sum. Eric would say the shaft is 50%, and the butt is 50%, no more, no less (for his cues). In application, I don't think I completely agree with that. I think if I took a custom made shaft with high quality maple and screwed a broomstick handle into it, I would be able to play better than if I took a custom made butt with high quality woods and screwed it into a thin broomstick handle with end rounded off for a makeshift tip. From that perspective, I would contribute more than 50% to the shaft. Does that make the butt less important? well no, not necessarily, maybe just less noticeable.
Eric holds to his philosophy because of his convictions of what it takes for him to build the best possible cue he can, and he believes all of the components and build techniques contribute to the feel and playability of his cues. That I do agree with. Don't we all? Don't we all make choices about materials and construction techniques, and combinations of them, so that the end result is the best total package we can offer, given the input parameters of the customers wants? We may disagree with some of the details, but do we disagree over our mission?
Kelly
masonh said:
I believe you are misinterpreting this post and others that you have read. I doubt that anyone, who has any knowledge of cues what so ever, would make a comment saying "after the shaft nothing else really matters" as far as the "hit" of a cue. You need to know what "hit" means. Everything affects the "hit", however, everything doesn't affect the performance of a cue. I stand by what I've always said about performance and that is that the tip is what is most important, the shaft design and taper is next followed by the ferrule and then total weight of the cue. Performance is what the cue does to the cue ball, the "hit" of a cue is the feel that you get when using said cue. One cue with a good "hit" or feel can perform horribly and another that feels lousy can impart great English. The "hit" is very much influenced by the materials and construction of the butt and I don't believe I've ever read anything different. It would be similar to a family sedan running on a Grand Prix track. The formula one car with the super stiff suspension can take some turns at 150 mph, the family sedan, with the great feel with the cushy suspension, couldn't make the same turns at 40 mph. Does this mean that the Formula One car is inferior because it doesn't "feel" as good as the sedan?
I'm not saying that a cue, with a great hit cannot also be a great performing cue. I'm just saying that "hit" and performance aren't the same thing and a cue can have one without the other.
Dick