Does Lassiter Pivot?

Fast Lenny

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
Well I was enjoying an old match with Lassiter and Crane and noticed on one shot Luther pivoted, maybe just adjusting a bit, I do not know as I do not do that pivoting move and use the shaft method to aim. But for your eyes only here is the video, at around 9:15 you can see it, I have the video to start from 9:10. http://youtu.be/-XVagtZlfZY?t=9m10s
 
Yep. He's pivoting on EVERY shot. Not sure exactly what he's pivoting from, but he's doing it for sure. All the videos I've ever seen of him were in grainy B/W, and I only paid attention to his slip stroke...never noticed a pivot before, but there it is. Nothing new under the sun, I guess.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Yep. He's pivoting on EVERY shot. Not sure exactly what he's pivoting from, but he's doing it for sure. All the videos I've ever seen of him were in grainy B/W, and I only paid attention to his slip stroke...never noticed a pivot before, but there it is. Nothing new under the sun, I guess.
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Actually, I wasn't really thinking he would be. However, if you pause and then hit the "l" key to advance or the "j" key to reverse frame by frame, you can see that he does. It actually is very close to 90/90 as Ron Vitello teaches it. At 11:13 you can really see it. He starts out just inside edge to edge, and then pivots into center ball.
 
Fast Lenny said:
Well I was enjoying an old match with Lassiter and Crane and noticed on one shot Luther pivoted, maybe just adjusting a bit, I do not know as I do not do that pivoting move and use the shaft method to aim. But for your eyes only here is the video, at around 9:15 you can see it, I have the video to start from 9:10. http://youtu.be/-XVagtZlfZY?t=9m10s
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Interesting- went to the next video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNVrYTIiAQE to see who wins, and Crane makes an obvious double hit foul and the ref says nothing. Watch at 2:10. Wonder why the ref came up to watch the hit if he wasn't going to call that a foul??
 
JoeyInCali said:
2:23 Luther does a parallel shift w/his bridge hand ?
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No, actually he didn't like his setup and started over with a different bridge placement. Go frame by frame and you can see him do that. He is aligned edge to edge after the hand change, then you can very clearly see him pivot from the hip to get to center ball.
 
Neil said:
Interesting- went to the next video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNVrYTIiAQE to see who wins, and Crane makes an obvious double hit foul and the ref says nothing. Watch at 2:10. Wonder why the ref came up to watch the hit if he wasn't going to call that a foul??
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I think the rule on double hits was different then. I played a guy in Philly maybe 5 years ago that used to play in the 80's, and then took a long pool sabbatical. He did exactly what we saw in the video and I said foul, and he looked at me like I was crazy. All the younger players said foul, but there was one older player in the room, who said during this guy's time, that was not a foul. Might have been a regional thing, but even Hopkins who was commentating didn't even flinch when the double hit occurred. And of course he played a ton out of the Philly area.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I think the rule on double hits was different then. I played a guy in Philly maybe 5 years ago that used to play in the 80's, and then took a long pool sabbatical. He did exactly what we saw in the video and I said foul, and he looked at me like I was crazy. All the younger players said foul, but there was one older player in the room, who said during this guy's time, that was not a foul. Might have been a regional thing, but even Hopkins who was commentating didn't even flinch when the double hit occurred. And of course he played a ton out of the Philly area.
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I'm from the old school. Here's my take on it. The shooter can feel if it is definitely a double hit. What is harder to feel is if it is a continuous hit, which in my opinion should be legal but I understand the reasoning behind the rule change because no one but the shooter can really tell.

By a continuous hit I mean that the tip makes contact with the ball & while the tip is still in contact & has never seperated from the ball the ball makes contact with the object ball & the object ball takes of. Then since the tip has maintained contact with the cue ball, it, the cue ball launches off the tip.

I hope I painted a correct picture.

Regards,
 
I don't know if he is using a half tip to the side of the center of the CB and back hand pivoting to the center of the CB or just fidgeting. He plays so close to the center of the CB and then swipes to get English. I didn't notice his slip stroke.

I wonder if it is viable to aim the shot with outside English with the tip to the side of center and then pivoting to the center and then swiping the CB to get outside English?
 
Fast Lenny said:
Well I was enjoying an old match with Lassiter and Crane and noticed on one shot Luther pivoted, maybe just adjusting a bit, I do not know as I do not do that pivoting move and use the shaft method to aim. But for your eyes only here is the video, at around 9:15 you can see it, I have the video to start from 9:10. http://youtu.be/-XVagtZlfZY?t=9m10s
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I watched him play quit a bit. He did all kinds of goofy stuff I always considered as tics. He twitched, took little series if short strokes then would stop and do them over again as if he didn't know when to shoot. His head wold move, he would keep getting up and resetting, there is no telling what he was doing. As great as he was, he would sometimes miss the easiest shot in the world and look completely mystified as to what happened.
 
the kidd said:
Called "a push" not a double hit. In carom its a foul.
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A push shot is when you place your cue tip right at the cb and then just push right through. Crane stroked this shot, not pushed, and it's obvious to see that there was a double hit because the cb follows right along with the ob and at the same speed.

If you don't want to believe me, fine. But at least look at Dr. Daves material on it and you will know the difference.
 
Fast Lenny said:
Well I was enjoying an old match with Lassiter and Crane and noticed on one shot Luther pivoted, maybe just adjusting a bit, I do not know as I do not do that pivoting move and use the shaft method to aim. But for your eyes only here is the video, at around 9:15 you can see it, I have the video to start from 9:10. http://youtu.be/-XVagtZlfZY?t=9m10s
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Now that you mention it from watching the video I would say he is definitely doing something to find the spot to hit the ball. I also think now that I am thinking about it, Danny DiLiberto may do something similar even he is not aware of what he is really doing. I have played with Danny quite a bit and watched him play for what must be thousands of hours. Sometimes he looks like he is trying to find the cue ball with the tip of his cue. I never really thought about before it and just wrote it off to a bad habit he may have developed.
I haven't seen him in years and have no idea when I may see him again. If someone out there is around Danny I wish they would ask him. I have never heard him talk about aiming systems or anything and we all know he loves to talk, but that does not mean he is not using something himself and just never spoke about it.
 
the kidd said:
Called "a push" not a double hit. In carom its a foul.
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Kidd,

I know exactly what you are saying. I know what you mean when you say a 'push shot'.

I almost got crucified when I first came onto AZB & said that inside english would push the ball. I was nearly castrated because I did not use the word 'throw'.

We can no longer speak the language of those that came before. We must now speak in the language of Dr. Dave & how he perceives that things should be called in our laymans language. It is his translation from what it would be called in the sciences to how he would translate them into our normal vernacular. It does not matter that it was called a 'push shot' for years & years & years.

No offense to Dr. Dave. He does an excellent job. It's just that some consultation with old school might have been beneficial.

Best Regards,
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Kidd,

I know exactly what you are saying. I know what you mean when you say a 'push shot'.

I almost got crucified when I first came onto AZB & said that inside english would push the ball. I was nearly castrated because I did not use the word 'throw'.

We can no longer speak the language of those that came before. We must now speak in the language of Dr. Dave & how he perceives that things should be called in our laymans language. It is his translation from what it would be called in the sciences to how he would translate them into our normal vernacular. It does not matter that it was called a 'push shot' for years & years & years.

No offense to Dr. Dave. He does an excellent job. It;s just that some consultation with old school might have been beneficial.

Best Regards,
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There's been a difference between the two as long as I've been alive. So...just because you were always wrong, doesn't mean that you were right.;);)
 
Neil said:
There's been a difference between the two as long as I've been alive. So...just because you were always wrong, doesn't mean that you were right.;);)
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Neil,

No one said anything about who was right or wrong & I was not inferring that you were wrong.

Obviously the two types of shots or non-shots are totally different & therefore should have dfiferent terminology to depict them.

When are you going to get it through your head that you & what is generally accepted through time here on AZB is not always what is 'right'.

There is more to the world than just you & AZB. Different parts of the world speak differently & I don't just mean their native tongue. You say tomata & I & others say tomato. It's the same food.

If you do not know to what The Kidd was referring then that is your difficiency not his...or mine. And there is nothing wrong with you IF you do not know to what he was regerring. Everyone's experiences in life are different & everyone is not exposed to the same things nor the same vernacular to describe those things.

You nearly 'attacked' to point out to the The Kidd that he was wrong. I merely posted to let him know that I understood to what he was referring.

Now you 'attack' me to TELL me that I am wrong & always have been wrong. If you leave your area & go to China YOU might be wrong in everything you say.

I hope you can 'see' my points, but I doubt that you will.

Have a great day & better tommorrows,
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Neil,

No one said anything about who was right or wrong & I was not inferring that you were wrong.

Obviously the two types of shots or non-shots are totally different & therefore should have dfiferent terminology to depict them.

When are you going to get it through your head that you & what is generally accepted through time here on AZB is not always what is 'right'.

There is more to the world than just you & AZB. Different parts of the world speak differently & I don't just mean their mative tongue. You say tomata & I & others say tomato. It's the same food.

If you do not know to what The Kidd was referring then that is your difficiency not his...or mine. And there is nothing wrong with you IF you do not know to what he was regerring. Everyone's experiences in life are different & everyone is not exposed to the same things nor the same vernacular to describe those things.

You nearly 'attacked' to point out the The Kidd that he was was wrong. I merely posted to let him know that I understood to what he was referring.

Now you 'attack' me to TELL me that I am wrong & always have been wrong. If you leave your area & go to China YOU might be worng in everything you say.

I hope you can 'see' my points, but I doubt that you will.

Have a great day & better tommorrows,
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The only point I see is you once again trying to start an argument. Not taking the bait.Go ahead and make up more crap, you seem to enjoy it a lot.
 
In snooker parlance, that is a push shot ie when the tip, CB & OB are in contact at the same time.

I have read (and been told) too many variations of the push rule at pool to know what is a foul and what isn't.

Pool type people: ONE set of rules, PLEASE!
 
Pathetic Shark said:
In snooker parlance, that is a push shot ie when the tip, CB & OB are in contact at the same time.

I have read (and been told) too many variations of the push rule at pool to know what is a foul and what isn't.

Pool type people: ONE set of rules, PLEASE!
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It's known by many to be a push shot in many pool rooms as well. Apparently Dr. Dave must have another name for it.
 
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