Does Pool Need better TV Production Quality?
- Thread starter jmccarthy
- Start date
The number of players in the US is roughly 1/5 or 1/6 that of Poker or Golf, yet our coverage, sponsorship, and quality isn't commensurate with that potential audience size.
One of the other things that's missing is your casual player or APA member plays 8-ball but all we show on TV is 9 ball. While I'm not saying don't show 9-ball, I would point out that if you're trying to relate to the casual observer it would be better to show them good 8 ball players. Sure the game is slower, so that's why you edit the crap out of it and only show important shots or games and build a story around each match.
One of the other things that's missing is your casual player or APA member plays 8-ball but all we show on TV is 9 ball. While I'm not saying don't show 9-ball, I would point out that if you're trying to relate to the casual observer it would be better to show them good 8 ball players. Sure the game is slower, so that's why you edit the crap out of it and only show important shots or games and build a story around each match.
+1
Nothing you do is going to change the fact that to almost everyone on earth watching people push balls around a table with a stick is boring as shit.
Maybe, but let me layout the premise of various popular shows just for fun:
- Watch people try and sell their old shit at a pawn store
- Watch a bunch of NJ kids in a house go party every night get drunk and start fights with eachother
- Watch a bunch of middle aged rich housewives play head games with one another
- Watch some guys sitting around a table playing cards
- A bunch of cars that can only left keep circling a track for hours
- Some bastards go to old storage lockers and buy a bunch of used crap
My point is that there are loads of things that I would never want to watch but for the way they are produced to make them interesting.
- Watch people try and sell their old shit at a pawn store
- Watch a bunch of NJ kids in a house go party every night get drunk and start fights with eachother
- Watch a bunch of middle aged rich housewives play head games with one another
- Watch some guys sitting around a table playing cards
- A bunch of cars that can only left keep circling a track for hours
- Some bastards go to old storage lockers and buy a bunch of used crap
My point is that there are loads of things that I would never want to watch but for the way they are produced to make them interesting.
I felt the same way even when I first got to Vegas but when we had everyone in a boardroom for a meeting and Larry laid it all out I was a believer then. He filled in many of the gaps that people out there do not know about and things I just cannot talk about, if you asked a question you got an honest answer. There are many good ideas being put in place, the teams aspect is something pool has never had besides Mosconi Cup. Making pool looked at more like a sport then a game is important too, players on teams with jerseys, scoreboard and shot clock are just a few of the things. I will certainly stop by and take you up on a drink or twenty, I know you got a stockpile there now. :thumbup:
Quality TV production is very expensive. And like most businesses, the expensive technology is the cheap part; it's the people who know how to use it that are expensive. I think TAR and others do a great job given the limited resources they can put into the project.
In any case, TV production is really putting the cart before the horse. The reason people aren't watching pool isn't because of the low production quality. It's because it's not popular.
The industry needs to do the hard work of popularizing the game. The simplest and best thing it can do is charity tournaments: charity tournaments attract media attention, they position pool as one of the good guys; and they get you in to meet the right people.
In any case, TV production is really putting the cart before the horse. The reason people aren't watching pool isn't because of the low production quality. It's because it's not popular.
The industry needs to do the hard work of popularizing the game. The simplest and best thing it can do is charity tournaments: charity tournaments attract media attention, they position pool as one of the good guys; and they get you in to meet the right people.
I like the idea of charity tournaments to help bring more exposure, I know they happen in small forms here and there. Pool does need a great PR man and advertising is key, many moving parts to a successful business.
Delays for Bonus Ball have been the result of many months of preparation towards a full league season. The truth is that this whole undertaking is significantly more involved than what goes on at other billiard related studios.
For instance, I've coded a program (4900 lines of code) that powers a graphics engine that will run full custom overlays that automate the process for shot clocks, ball icons, etc. It also catalogs a shot-by-shot match history and then automatically extrapolates statistics that are then injected live into our custom broadcast graphics package. It covers everything from average runs, accuracy, defensive efficiency, etc, all of which can be called up and instantly displayed graphically. All this data is also uploaded to our website after every single shot, which updates the stats without refreshing the page. The program also knows what object ball is currently active, and uses the DMX lighting protocol to communicate with the arena lights to change the color of the flood lights dynamically. Sure, I'm no experienced TV crew, but find a TV crew that can do all this, and your estimated 2 million dollar budget becomes 10 million.
In addition, the studio is under full renovation. It features stadium seating for over 100, a full bar, lounge, 12x 9' foot GC5s, etc. Our promo that will launch in 2 weeks was shot using equipment I own, but we're currently in the process of installing all new state of the art equipment into the facility. Plus there's all the necessary licensing and permits (which are ridiculous and time consuming on their own).
The reality is, Bonus Ball is legit, and the people behind it are doing their best to help the game. It's fair to be skeptical, but in the end it seems clear that certain people refuse to support the idea. It's becoming clear that some who claim they "want what's best for pool" are indeed more concerned with their own agendas.
What most people fail to realize is that Bonus Ball does not intend to replace baseball or any other dominant sport. That's just not realistic. There is however a larger potential market out there that low-quality pool productions are failing to seize. Even a small share of this smaller market will be superior to anything pool has achieved in the past few decades. It may be high risk, but at the end of the day, the guys at Bonus Ball are putting effort and ambition into the industry, while everyone else just sits around and talks about it.
EDIT: Added a preview:
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I did not want to talk about the program but since you did I have to say its genius and will be a first for pool. People will be impressed with it when they see the production of it all.
blah blah
Shoebat
good fixes that don't mean throwing a whole lot of money at it
I have some cheap suggestions for any produced pool:
--Have an interested (but serious and quiet) audience. Having an audience present makes tv viewers feel like the program is important. If the bleachers around the table are sparsely filled, home viewers look at the empty seats and question why they're watching. Don't charge for an audience until pool is so big that you can't seat everyone. Until then, encourage people to attend so the game looks important. Have the players' friends, family, even friends of the production crew fill up some seats just so the sport looks popular. Can you imagine a political event with a sparse audience? The camera angles and the filler crowd are pushed together and gauged to make the guy look popular and important. We poolplayers charge and refuse entry. That's long term stupid for a short term pay.
--Show audience reaction shots every once in a while. Everybody likes to see who is there, to see themselves and their friends, and the broad mix of the crowd (from young men to blue haired old ladies) makes the audience at home feel like no matter who they are, they would fit right in with the real live crowd.
Important: I'm not asking for a silly and irritating audience who claps after every freaking shot, but a serious audience like in poker, or snooker, where everybody shuts the f up because they genuinely care about the game and the outcome.
--Have training sessions. This way whoever is responsible for the keys (if you still call them that) can get on a routine and remember to look at the screen, make sure it's correct, and change the score regularly. How much can you really care or get into a match when you keep watching games go by and the score isn't updated? Or where the players' names aren't even correct? I might be watching a guy run racks, and I'm not even that impressed anymore because half of me is worried the games won't be counted and the other half is burning to yell at the announcers that the damned score hasn't been updated in half an hour!
--Have topic cards for announcers. First, topic cards would have biographical information on the players. Maybe have a little interest form for both players to fill out before the match. Google them. Have stats. But have some background info on the players to share when it gets too quiet and the announcers have started to fall asleep. Other topic cards might be helpful reminders for the announcers of their own personal stories or things to ask their fellow announcer. Have the two announcers talk a minute before the match and get some of this planning stuff done. Give those guys some free drinks, too. Something with both caffeine and alcohol mixed.
-- Throwing money at the production is nice, but not necessarily helpful. No one cares about the pocket cam.
I have some cheap suggestions for any produced pool:
--Have an interested (but serious and quiet) audience. Having an audience present makes tv viewers feel like the program is important. If the bleachers around the table are sparsely filled, home viewers look at the empty seats and question why they're watching. Don't charge for an audience until pool is so big that you can't seat everyone. Until then, encourage people to attend so the game looks important. Have the players' friends, family, even friends of the production crew fill up some seats just so the sport looks popular. Can you imagine a political event with a sparse audience? The camera angles and the filler crowd are pushed together and gauged to make the guy look popular and important. We poolplayers charge and refuse entry. That's long term stupid for a short term pay.
--Show audience reaction shots every once in a while. Everybody likes to see who is there, to see themselves and their friends, and the broad mix of the crowd (from young men to blue haired old ladies) makes the audience at home feel like no matter who they are, they would fit right in with the real live crowd.
Important: I'm not asking for a silly and irritating audience who claps after every freaking shot, but a serious audience like in poker, or snooker, where everybody shuts the f up because they genuinely care about the game and the outcome.
--Have training sessions. This way whoever is responsible for the keys (if you still call them that) can get on a routine and remember to look at the screen, make sure it's correct, and change the score regularly. How much can you really care or get into a match when you keep watching games go by and the score isn't updated? Or where the players' names aren't even correct? I might be watching a guy run racks, and I'm not even that impressed anymore because half of me is worried the games won't be counted and the other half is burning to yell at the announcers that the damned score hasn't been updated in half an hour!
--Have topic cards for announcers. First, topic cards would have biographical information on the players. Maybe have a little interest form for both players to fill out before the match. Google them. Have stats. But have some background info on the players to share when it gets too quiet and the announcers have started to fall asleep. Other topic cards might be helpful reminders for the announcers of their own personal stories or things to ask their fellow announcer. Have the two announcers talk a minute before the match and get some of this planning stuff done. Give those guys some free drinks, too. Something with both caffeine and alcohol mixed.
-- Throwing money at the production is nice, but not necessarily helpful. No one cares about the pocket cam.
Ever see Charlie Brooker's stuff?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwepkVurCI
Seeing this will show you that with the right presentation, any old boring shit can be made interesting. Nascar, poker and fishing are both great examples. So is "a bunch of people get an apartment together and have petty squabbles with their roommates".
With a focus on the characters and and other simple devices (pawn stars uses trivia/factoids just before commercial breaks) you can make an entertaining show. You can create drama or humor out of stuff that in real life is quite bland. And yeah, a telestrator telling you that the spot shot shane's about to take is a 70% shot for most of us, and a 97% shot for him, would be a great addition.
I can already watch pool in its current boring format, and I feel like some of my friends can almost be coaxed into it... maybe good production is what's missing. They don't comment so much that the pool itself is boring or low quality. Instead they make comments like... "What, are they playing in someone's basement"? "They're only playing for 5k?"... "Who is this guy on the mic? He sounds like he's eating potato salad."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwepkVurCI
Seeing this will show you that with the right presentation, any old boring shit can be made interesting. Nascar, poker and fishing are both great examples. So is "a bunch of people get an apartment together and have petty squabbles with their roommates".
With a focus on the characters and and other simple devices (pawn stars uses trivia/factoids just before commercial breaks) you can make an entertaining show. You can create drama or humor out of stuff that in real life is quite bland. And yeah, a telestrator telling you that the spot shot shane's about to take is a 70% shot for most of us, and a 97% shot for him, would be a great addition.
I can already watch pool in its current boring format, and I feel like some of my friends can almost be coaxed into it... maybe good production is what's missing. They don't comment so much that the pool itself is boring or low quality. Instead they make comments like... "What, are they playing in someone's basement"? "They're only playing for 5k?"... "Who is this guy on the mic? He sounds like he's eating potato salad."
Kudos for taking the initiative! I suggest perhaps there's a market for your real-time stats engine / overlays for other broadcasts. If you can generalize it for other games I'm sure the rest of the streaming world would be appreciative and perhaps even spend a few bucks licensing it if there's an ROI.
Thanks!
I actually already built the system to support all games. It even works for 1P, 14.1, 8ball, 9/10ball, etc. It understands all rule sets, and even supports handicapping, ahead sets, score capping, slop/no-slop, shot-clocks/set-clocks/time-banks, and the countless possible conditions for when the game ball will count (on the snap, normal, or last ball down).
I spent months coding it as part of a series of live events that I was going to put on myself, but Bonus Ball came along and postponed them. Once I saw Bonus Ball for what it really is, I put all my own projects on hold. It really is that good, and I'm confident people will see it for what it is soon enough.
PS. Here's a sample of Bonus Ball and the overlay and stats engine in action (attached it to an earlier post as well). It supports custom skins too, as I have my own Runout Media skin for my own upcoming events.
Four reality shows...all staged.
NASCAR...constant possibility of death in every race.
Poker...edited to get rid of mind numbing hours of doing absolutely nothing.
Barring loser dies pool tournaments or turning it into pro wrestling with dramatic story lines set up in advance I consider those comparisons irrelevant. That leaves us with poker.
I have said before that if you edited one pocket like poker it could be a good TV show but you would have to almost cover a whole tournament to come up with enough exciting things for a couple hours of programming.Ever been to the WSOP to see what they put into that production? I have and its insane.
If your point is that its possible to make pool more exciting by spending millions on production I agree to a certain extent. Now we come to the the same question we always come to in the end. Who is going to pay for it ? By that I mean both for production and who is going to buy the finished product ?
There is a reality show in pool for sure but it would have nothing to do with actual competition. Personally I have no desire to see Jersey Shore in a pool room and thats what it would take. Even then there are hundreds of other ideas it would have to beat out. I have recently been involved on the edges of a reality show project in another field. Everyone and their brother is pitching shows. Actually selling one is very very hard. Even then the people on the show make very little money unless it becomes a giant hit and even then the majority of the money comes from appearance fees, books, merchandise and things like that. Which is all good in the end if if a million things fall right.
Pool is a game people like to play in this country not watch. It is what it is. I really wish someone would prove me wrong.
Just curious what your involvement is Lenny. Did you have to sign an NDA?
Yup. Thats all anyone has been doing. Just sitting around and talking about it.
I will be working behind the scenes and doing camera work. I did not sign anything but just using my noggin as I am uncertain of what things should or should not be shared with the public. I do know one thing that as good as the pre-production studio setup was, I got word on what is being built and lets just say its better than anything video production wise pool has seen.
The fans able to attend in person or watching video will be treated to something great, I hope the plans will be shared but maybe when it is all done the people who see it for themselves will let everyone know here what they think. We are only 2 months away from kicking off so that is exciting.
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I know this may sound trival but I'm not sure about the look of the shirts. They kind of look goofy to me. It's not my money but I think golf apparel would look better. The shirts kind of look like hockey or football jerseys.
I'm serious and not joking.
I think golf clothing or work out clothing would look much better.
Just my two cents...
I'm serious and not joking.
I think golf clothing or work out clothing would look much better.
Just my two cents...
You know, good luck, best wishes and all that, but Justin is right: *nobody* wants to watch pool on TV. As much of a player, fan, and aficionado as I am, the other night I was channel surfing and hit on a rebroadcast of a recent Mosconi Cup and... just kept on surfing. Those of us that can play (even just a little) would rather be playing than watching.
Goofy colored balls, grey cloth, and girls in LBDs is not going to cut it. Impenetrable rules are not going to help your cause either, no matter how long and how much you explain it on camera. And, the way this has been handled to date, online, hasn't exactly been much of a boost. Of course, everyone involved with the production (getting paid) is going to be a fan, but for someone like me -- player, fan, aficionado -- this looks like another pool train wreck about to happen.
So, like I said: good luck, best wishes and all that -- let's talk about it in a couple of years and see how that all went for you. IMO, it's DOA, but I've been wrong before.
Lou Figueroa
Goofy colored balls, grey cloth, and girls in LBDs is not going to cut it. Impenetrable rules are not going to help your cause either, no matter how long and how much you explain it on camera. And, the way this has been handled to date, online, hasn't exactly been much of a boost. Of course, everyone involved with the production (getting paid) is going to be a fan, but for someone like me -- player, fan, aficionado -- this looks like another pool train wreck about to happen.
So, like I said: good luck, best wishes and all that -- let's talk about it in a couple of years and see how that all went for you. IMO, it's DOA, but I've been wrong before.
Lou Figueroa