Does the prevalence of one-pocket hurt the overall pool game in the US?

The answer to your question is no, it does not, and the only reason this question has been asked is because of our (the US team) recent loss at the MC tournament.
Whether One Pocket acquires a following in Europe is irrelevant, and of no consequence to us here in the States. Play what you will.
Just thinking on it, however, if were there to be a World One Pocket tournament, I would imagine the Americans would dominate. And, quite handily, too. :smile:
 
supergreenman said:
Do you only go to the gym to work on you curls and expect to be fit?

1P can only help your game, strategy and stroke.

caveat: unless it's the only game you play/practice.
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Thank you. One pocket improves every part of your game including the power stroke. Good one pocket players know how and when to use it. The cue ball control necessary for one pocket can only improve your 9 ball game. Who here doesn't think "seeing the table" well doesn't help with 8 ball patterns? One pocket is all about controlling whitey and seeing the table. And lets not forget the concentration in one pocket needed for making the shot because if you miss, you often sell out. That level of concentration can help in every game.
 
dnschmidt said:
The failure to admit the truth on this forum continues unabated. Here's the reason for America's decline in pool on the world stage.

1) The seven foot table. The ability to make the long ball is crucial in competition.
2) It's now played in bars on seven foot tables which contribute nothing to concentration (think loud music, women and alcohol) and is only played socially and not as a sport.
3) THERE IS NO PROFESSIONAL TOUR in which to learn the craft, take your beating without going broke (gambling) and improving against superior players.
4) THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY IN IT. Everybody expects the American players to practice 20 hours a day to compete in the Mosconi cup. To what point? Shane doesn't make a much money as a dentist in a year (having just spent 5K on a dental implant I can assure you of that). Without a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow why bother. Kids playing basketball 10 hours a day to get into the NBA to make 50 million makes sense. Practicing 10 hours a day to make $50,000 a year doesn't make sense now does it. No sport pays it's greatest players less than pool.
5) One pocket. A game to which people that can no longer make the long and difficult shots needed in 9 and 10 ball gravitate to.

There are about 100 other good reasons that American Professional Pool sucks but I'll limit it to my first five.
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All very good points well made!..I do disagree with the person who said 9ball is the dominant game in the US..It may be played more than 1P, until you factor in gambling!..Most top players now prefer 1P, for high stakes gambling..1P is a much more 'complete' game than 8 or 9 ball, but it does place a premium on knowledge, rather than shot making!

We have enough skilled, capable players, but we need to find a way to encourage the better aspects of both games..As I have said often before..until we have a real governing body in place, pool can go nowhere in the U.S.!..The BCA is a 'do nothing' farce!..That is the main reason we are losing ground to the Euro's and the Asians!
 
Tramp Steamer said:
The answer to your question is no, it does not, and the only reason this question has been asked is because of our (the US team) recent loss at the MC tournament.
Whether One Pocket acquires a following in Europe is irrelevant, and of no consequence to us here in the States. Play what you will.
Just thinking on it, however, if were there to be a World One Pocket tournament, I would imagine the Americans would dominate. And, quite handily, too. :smile:
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The Philippines?
 
trob said:
Watching one pocket has absolutely helped america...sleep. Watching that game is better for sleep then washing down 2 tylenol pm with a glass of whiskey!
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Trob, read this entire thread.. "Whats the most popular gambling game(s) in your room?"..It proves you are dead wrong!..One pocket is alive and well in the US! (two sample posts)
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5741569&postcount=8
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5741688&postcount=16

PS..Being wrong don't make you a bad guy..I was wrong once myself! (but never that wrong :o)
 
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dnschmidt said:
The failure to admit the truth on this forum continues unabated. Here's the reason for America's decline in pool on the world stage.

1) The seven foot table. The ability to make the long ball is crucial in competition.
2) It's now played in bars on seven foot tables which contribute nothing to concentration (think loud music, women and alcohol) and is only played socially and not as a sport.
3) THERE IS NO PROFESSIONAL TOUR in which to learn the craft, take your beating without going broke (gambling) and improving against superior players.
4) THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY IN IT. Everybody expects the American players to practice 20 hours a day to compete in the Mosconi cup. To what point? Shane doesn't make a much money as a dentist in a year (having just spent 5K on a dental implant I can assure you of that). Without a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow why bother. Kids playing basketball 10 hours a day to get into the NBA to make 50 million makes sense. Practicing 10 hours a day to make $50,000 a year doesn't make sense now does it. No sport pays it's greatest players less than pool.
5) One pocket. A game to which people that can no longer make the long and difficult shots needed in 9 and 10 ball gravitate to.

There are about 100 other good reasons that American Professional Pool sucks but I'll limit it to my first five.
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Yep. Totally agree. I live in an area, Oklahoma, that used to always have the next generation coming up. Not any more. The absolute lack of young players is pitiful but totally understandable. The time required, finding a place to play, no future money-wise all add-up to a pretty dim future for pool in the U.S. I talked to Danny Janes(Joss) a while back and he said if you'd have told him pool would get this dead in the U.S. he'd have never believed it. Till now. Way it is.
 
To the OP's question my answer would be a resounding YES!

Bar tables are also hurting you.

But hey, whatever floats your collective boat, I suppose.
 
One pocket helps to supplement one's skill set for the other games, not build it.

The late John Ervolino always suggested that a player that wanted to be world class needed to play at least one of two games of touch and finesse, one pocket or straight pool.

Running eight and out in one pocket often requires more skill than running out in nine ball as the position play often requires truly exquisite speed control. That said, however, those who suggest that one pocket is about speed and touch and less about pocketing and power make a good point. Other than the multi-rail shots and other specialty shots, few really difficult shots are attempted in one pocket, and power in position play is rarely needed. For this reason, one pocket may, at times, mask some deficiencies in one's stroke fundamentals.

.... but all these points aside, one pocket teaches you to think about offense and defense together, a skill which Team USA rarely employed in the just completed Mosconi Cup. Similarly, the end game in one pocket enhances knowledge of object ball paths, knowledge that can be applied to nine ball defense. Finally, one-pocket builds conceptualization skills and makes players more careful about their choices.

My personal opinion is that one pocket does far more good than bad, but those who feel it can hurt your stroke if you play too much of it have a valid argument.

Interesting thread.
 
garczar said:
Yep. Totally agree. I live in an area, Oklahoma, that used to always have the next generation coming up. Not any more. The absolute lack of young players is pitiful but totally understandable. The time required, finding a place to play, no future money-wise all add-up to a pretty dim future for pool in the U.S. I talked to Danny Janes(Joss) a while back and he said if you'd have told him pool would get this dead in the U.S. he'd have never believed it. Till now. Way it is.
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I am from New England, and I agree 100% about no young people, but definitely not about One Pocket. Up here, young people have nearly completely disappeared from pool. And it happened all of a sudden too, about 10 years ago. And it definitely had nothing to do with One Pocket, because that is not a very popular game up here. It gets played by some of the better pool players, but no way is it the dominant game up here. I think the exodus of young players had more to do with internet and video games.

If you asked me, the biggest difference between the Euro and American pool is the prevalence and acceptance of professional training discipline on the other side of the pond -- not so much over here

Straight pool also has a lot of soft, low cue ball movement shots -- but you don't hear much about it ruining pool lol.
 
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sjm said:
One pocket helps to supplement one's skill set for the other games, not build it.

The late John Ervolino always suggested that a player that wanted to be world class needed to play at least one of two games of touch and finesse, one pocket or straight pool.

Running eight and out in one pocket often requires more skill than running out in nine ball as the position play often requires truly exquisite speed control. That said, however, those who suggest that one pocket is about speed and touch and less about pocketing and power make a good point. Other than the multi-rail shots and other specialty shots, few really difficult shots are attempted in one pocket, and power in position play is rarely needed. For this reason, one pocket may, at times, mask some deficiencies in one's stroke fundamentals.

.... but all these points aside, one pocket teaches you to think about offense and defense together, a skill which Team USA rarely employed in the just completed Mosconi Cup. Similarly, the end game in one pocket enhances knowledge of object ball paths, knowledge that can be applied to nine ball defense. Finally, one-pocket builds conceptualization skills and makes players more careful about their choices.

My personal opinion is that one pocket does far more good than bad, but those who feel it can hurt your stroke if you play too much of it have a valid argument.

Interesting thread.
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Interesting thread for sure Stu. I have recently started playing One pocket and being able to think the game is the biggest hurtle. If you can slow down a figure out how to get out of trouble or how to trap your opponent...then that's half the battle.

It is like the 3C games you and I have played in the past, there is little bits of wisdom that comes from all the different games that tends to "stick" in our brains and returns down the road. In my opinion bouncing between the games has value also, not easy to do sometimes but good training.
 
Cory in DC said:
Reasonable theory but I agree that it doesn't hold up.

  • Mike D. essentially doesn't play one pocket (I recall he did will at DCC one year)
  • I don't think Rodney plays it a lot.
  • Shane plays 1P but clearly spends the majority of his time on 9/10 ball.
  • I think Justin plays a fair amount of 1P and he played better than others.
  • I have no idea about Skyler and 1P.

That's mostly by memory from reading AZB so I could be a little off. But there's no real pattern evident between the amount of 1P and performance.

Also, landing and getting out of safes was something the US was not as strong at as the Europeans. That's a larger part of 1P than 9 ball, so I think 1P might actually be helpful.

The moral of the story is that you can safely play 1P!

Cory

P.S. Causality may go the other way: I prefer 1P because I'm not very good at 9-ball.
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Those are great points about the players on Team USA- most don't play one pocket on a regular basis except for Bergman perhaps. Hence, the argument in the original post doesn't seem very valid for this specific MC.
 
I'm 63 & only started playing one pocket last year. I asked one of the best overall pool players in the area if one pocket can ruin your stroke.

He nearly yelled, "Absolutely... you have to work to keep it."
 
sjm said:
One pocket helps to supplement one's skill set for the other games, not build it.

The late John Ervolino always suggested that a player that wanted to be world class needed to play at least one of two games of touch and finesse, one pocket or straight pool.

Running eight and out in one pocket often requires more skill than running out in nine ball as the position play often requires truly exquisite speed control. That said, however, those who suggest that one pocket is about speed and touch and less about pocketing and power make a good point. Other than the multi-rail shots and other specialty shots, few really difficult shots are attempted in one pocket, and power in position play is rarely needed. For this reason, one pocket may, at times, mask some deficiencies in one's stroke fundamentals.

.... but all these points aside, one pocket teaches you to think about offense and defense together, a skill which Team USA rarely employed in the just completed Mosconi Cup. Similarly, the end game in one pocket enhances knowledge of object ball paths, knowledge that can be applied to nine ball defense. Finally, one-pocket builds conceptualization skills and makes players more careful about their choices.

My personal opinion is that one pocket does far more good than bad, but those who feel it can hurt your stroke if you play too much of it have a valid argument.

Interesting thread.
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The only Euro i've watched playin one-hole is Fajen and he can dab it. Doesn't hurt his run-out game. Appleton plays it pretty well also. I still think a steady diet of it will dull your rotation speed.
 
Obviously, one can still be a great rotation player while excelling at one pocket- Alex Pagulayan and Efren are the best examples. However, I'm sure they always mixed in rotation games on a regular basis- neither became specialists, such as Frost.
 
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