Don't let the Philippino's play each other in the early rounds.

Its not fair for players to be "spaced" based on where they travel from.
I felt like saying during the players meeting thats it not fair, I mean we had more than 8 people come from florida, can we be team florida and be spaced out.
anytime a draw take 3-4 hours it lends to suspicions . If there werent some shady things going on with spacing players then why did the draw take so long

This us open was not run as well as last years and that is disapointing.
From the banning of ipods and ear plugs because they are "unprofessional"
however hats are perfectly fine, also you can drink beer at the table..........

I really like the playing conditions and I hope they learn from there mistakes from this year and make things better for next year
 
bfdlad said:
I guess the rule or desision to not let the Phillipinos play each other in the early rounds payed off for someone. Looks like there could be 2 in the US Open finals. So I am obviously biased but still don't get why it happened and seems like it worked out the way the powers wanted it to.
I do not want to take anything away from the players as they have to play very well to get to this point but would there have been a different outcome if that rule was not there? Thats my question.
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This is a myth. There are usually 6 or 7 Filipinos playing in the Open. If you bunch them up in one bracket , you are in fact giving a clear roadway for one of them to be in the semis.

This is the reason why they need to space out the contigents. Case in point, bracket 4.
 
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gopi-1 said:
Yes, it's spelled that way. Take it from me, I'm a living pr
Philippines.gif
Philippines.gif
f! :wink:
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That's a little dicey. Often the Filipino people say "Pilipino". Non-natives cannot figure out what is correct. I think they only thing they can agree on is that they are "Pinoys" and usually speak "Taglish"...;) . Now just tell me that I'm wrong :cool: :D ...Tom
 
tpdtom said:
That's a little dicey. Often the Filipino people say "Pilipino". Non-natives cannot figure out what is correct. I think they only thing they can agree on is that they are "Pinoys" and usually speak "Taglish"...;) . Now just tell me that I'm wrong :cool: :D ...Tom
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Pilipino is the National language, Tagalog is just a dialect, while "Filipinos" are the people, don't ask me why!
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All this bickering about brackets jinxed Ronnie.

By the way, Filipino is the english translation of Pilipino. Honest.
 
jamesroberts said:
Its not fair for players to be "spaced" based on where they travel from.
I felt like saying during the players meeting thats it not fair, I mean we had more than 8 people come from florida, can we be team florida and be spaced out.
anytime a draw take 3-4 hours it lends to suspicions . If there werent some shady things going on with spacing players then why did the draw take so long

This us open was not run as well as last years and that is disapointing.
From the banning of ipods and ear plugs because they are "unprofessional"
however hats are perfectly fine, also you can drink beer at the table..........

I really like the playing conditions and I hope they learn from there mistakes from this year and make things better for next year
Click to expand...

First of all congratulations on your play in the event which others have stated was really good at times...............better luck next time.

Given what was apparently said at the players meeting and how the brackets actually came out in the draw and given the absence of any further clarification by the organiser it is hardly surprising that there is confusion as regards which countries' players were intended to be involved in any geographical draw 'seeding' and as regards to what extent any geographical 'seeding' was actually eventually carried out.

To add to the confusion one of the countries named in the other thread was Kuwait....and Kuwait do not seem to have had 8 players competing. The number of nationals of various arab countries may have been 8 or more but I'm 99.9% certain there were not 8 from Kuwait alone.

To further blur the issue I'm pretty sure that UK had at least 8 players in the draw.

Personally can't see that there can ever be justifiable fairness in any seeding whatsoever based on travelling distances/nationality factors, in any tournament anywhere in the world. However, it isn't hard to understand how a desire on the part of organisers of tournaments to encourage participation by larger numbers of entrants might influence their judgement at times.

All that being understood there can surely be little doubt that the players performing best on that particular US Open week prevailed through to the lattermost stages.
 
I agree with the basic premise that this was unnecessary. Nonetheless, I don't think it makes much difference, and I'm OK with it.

In the NCAA Basketball Tournament, the tournament draw is always done in a way that ensures that (barring the slight possibility that a conference lands more than eight teams in the field) two teams from the same conference cannot meet each other until the tournament has been reduced to eight teams. It's a formula that, in my view, has worked well for basketball.

In other words, there is some precedent on which to rely here. Still, as I've noted, it seems unnecessary.
 
Manipulation of a draw is NEVER a good idea no matter how subtle.

The majority of pool tournaments are an individual affair (versus team competition), therefore the draw should be entirely random with no consideration given to country of origin.
 
Does anyone know if the draw is made publicly at the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship?

Is it more common to have the draw done in private than publicly at most regional and national tournaments?

If there was such a decision made, I don't see why the number had to be 8. It could have been 2 or any other number for that matter.

This decision if it was made is similar to seeding (based upon ranking) which is common in other sports.

I think seeding a tournament reduces the luck of the draw and can also reduce the number of some participants. When the luck factor is allowed (no seeding), it probably results in greater participation.

There are some hard-heads like myself, who play in national tournaments just to have a chance to play some of the best players to test my mettle under tournament conditions and to learn from the mistakes that I am sure to make.

JoeyA
 
reducing participants

Joey,

Shaving the dice in any way including cooking the draw a bit discourages maybe the most important participants of all, the pack. The members of the pack are the perennial also rans, the up and comers that haven't quite broken through to the elite level yet but may at any time, and the guys that have won some but are past winning another unless the stars align perfectly and the pool gods smile at the same time. Also the guys like you who just want to test their mettle against the finest. The members of the pack know that at best they have to play 100% and maybe have a little luck on their side to win, they definitely don't want the deck stacked against them. Without the pack there would be no pool competitions, without the pack no sport can survive. They don't expect to be catered to for the most part but sticking a knife into them is a very poor decision also. Doing it as a last minute change is even more foolish.

About the draw, behind closed doors draws happen and are always a bad idea. I don't know that this one did but it seems likely. Curious why it would take four hours for a draw as reported too.

Hu


JoeyA said:
Does anyone know if the draw is made publicly at the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship?

Is it more common to have the draw done in private than publicly at most regional and national tournaments?

If there was such a decision made, I don't see why the number had to be 8. It could have been 2 or any other number for that matter.

This decision if it was made is similar to seeding (based upon ranking) which is common in other sports.

I think seeding a tournament reduces the luck of the draw and can also reduce the number of some participants. When the luck factor is allowed (no seeding), it probably results in greater participation.

There are some hard-heads like myself, who play in national tournaments just to have a chance to play some of the best players to test my mettle under tournament conditions and to learn from the mistakes that I am sure to make.

JoeyA
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
Joey,

Shaving the dice in any way including cooking the draw a bit discourages maybe the most important participants of all, the pack. The members of the pack are the perennial also rans, the up and comers that haven't quite broken through to the elite level yet but may at any time, and the guys that have won some but are past winning another unless the stars align perfectly and the pool gods smile at the same time. Also the guys like you who just want to test their mettle against the finest. The members of the pack know that at best they have to play 100% and maybe have a little luck on their side to win, they definitely don't want the deck stacked against them. Without the pack there would be no pool competitions, without the pack no sport can survive. They don't expect to be catered to for the most part but sticking a knife into them is a very poor decision also. Doing it as a last minute change is even more foolish.

About the draw, behind closed doors draws happen and are always a bad idea. I don't know that this one did but it seems likely. Curious why it would take four hours for a draw as reported too.

Hu
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Could not be better said! The pack, commonly called feeder fish. Without them there would be no money in tournaments.
 
bfdlad said:
I agree it is spelled that way. I am just wondering why ??
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Here's your explanation bfdlad.

The Philippines was named after the Spanish Colonizers' ruler, King Philip, thus the name Philippines. But this name "Philippines" came to use only after the Spanish Colonizers were booted out of the country thus the English spelling from an English base word "Philip". The Spanish equivalent of the name Philip is Felipe so back during the 400 years of the Spanish rule here the archipaelago (composed of 7,100 islands) was known as "Islas de Filipinas".

Now this is hearsay and I can't direct you to the ruling since the originator, of the language, died more than 500 years ago.:smile:
 
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mosconiac said:
Manipulation of a draw is NEVER a good idea no matter how subtle.

The majority of pool tournaments are an individual affair (versus team competition), therefore the draw should be entirely random with no consideration given to country of origin.
Click to expand...

This is done to avoid one bracket to be loaded with players from one country. When a bracket(there are 4 starting brackets in US Open) is loaded with players from one country it's very likely that they will dominate that bracket. This is specially true for players from the Philippines who are all world class talents. If you don't space them out intentionally, you'll give a country an easier road to the semifinal at least for one of them because the random draw might put most of them in one bracket.

I wish people can understand this small thing.
 
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what type of tournament was this?

crosseyedjoe said:
This is done to avoid one bracket to be loaded with players from one country. When a bracket(there are 4 starting brackets in US Open) is loaded with players from one country it's very likely that they will dominate that bracket. This is specially true for players from the Philippines who are all world class talents. If you don't space them out intentionally, you'll give a country an easier road to the semifinal at least for one of them because the random draw might put most of them in one bracket.

I wish people can understand this small thing.
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what type of tournament was this?

I was under the impression this was a tournament for individuals. If so, each individual is equal and it doesn't matter which bracket each individual lands in. Of course if this is a competition for teams or countries then I understand your point.

Hu
 
all this fuss

in a way a philipino won the us open .

Mika is half phipino and speaks fluent tagala

that is what i have heard
 
ShootingArts said:
what type of tournament was this?

I was under the impression this was a tournament for individuals. If so, each individual is equal and it doesn't matter which bracket each individual lands in. Of course if this is a competition for teams or countries then I understand your point.

Hu
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You must put this in context. Read the first post. Some people are assuming that spacing out the Philippine contigent is in effect helping them out because they don't knock each other out in the early rounds. It's not a team competition, but the poster didn't say why Lee Van Corteza wasn't fitted against Bustamante in the early rounds or so and so against so and so. He singled the Philippine contingent. So I'm explaining to some people here that if the luck of the draw puts most of the Filipinos in one bracket, it is in fact making it easier for one of them to get to the semis. When you have a random draw, you also need to accept this possibility.

Last year, the issue was the other way around, many Filipinos did meet each other in the early rounds. And some folks were complaining that the draw was tweaked so the Filipinos would knock each other out. I also pointed that tweaking the draw that way was stupid for the very same reason I stated here.
 
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Been with this thread from the beginning

I have been with this thread from the beginning. I was just pointing out yet again that this was an individual competition so any rigging of the draw is BS. There is some merit to seeding some players on merit to attract top players and past champions but making a rule that only applied to two teams was ridiculous. Making any last minute changes that aren't required for the integrity of the event is a very bad idea. Nobody has confirmed that the arranging of players was actually followed through with though and I haven't seen the brackets.

Barry does read this forum and I think it has some influence on him based on earlier apologies. He may rethink this ruling and either eliminate it or make it apply much more across the board. Of course it will soon get to where there is no draw and the players are just carefully sorted if this is taken too far. All in all just a bad idea in my opinion.

Hu




crosseyedjoe said:
You must put this in context. Read the first post. Some people are assuming that spacing out the Philippine contigent is in effect helping them out because they don't knock each other out in the early rounds. It's not a team competition, but the poster didn't say why Lee Van Corteza wasn't fitted against Bustamante in the early rounds or so and so against so and so. He singled the Philippine contingent. So I'm explaining to some people here that if the luck of the draw puts most of the Filipinos in one bracket, it is in fact making it easier for one of them to get to the semis. When you have a random draw, you also need to accept this possibility.

Last year, the issue was the other way around, many Filipinos did meet each other in the early rounds. And some folks were complaining that the draw was tweaked so the Filipinos would knock each other out. I also pointed that tweaking the draw that way was stupid for the very same reason I stated here.
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