Don't think you are not involved YOU ARE!

bfdlad

bfdlad

T-Wheels
Silver Member
The sport of pool needs to make some changes, I think we all know that. Where do you start? Obviously we all have our own ideas as to what will bring new life to the sport and what will make Pool financially rewarding to those who strive to be the best. Right now there are only a handful of top pro players that can make a decent living from the game. So why would any parent say to their kids "hey listen just get through school and practice your pool and one day you can turn pro"? The money just isn't there consistantly for these guys who are sometimes trying to raise a family on the earnings from tournaments.
WHY would I want my kids to even look at pool as a profession, even if you can get past the tainted smokey pool hall image?
Things have to change, the money has to change, the image has to change, more amatures need to become involved and interested, the Pros need a organization that will represent them and actually do something for them, TV exposure with exciting formats that will make peoplewant to watch and love one guy and hate another. My Mum used to watch snooker on TV in England and even though she could not hold a cue she wanted Steve Davis to lose and Cliff Thorburn to win cos he was a hunk (I guess). We just don't have any of these things. When someone steps up to the plate and tries to create something they are picked at by the current pool and billiards enthusiast. If a person cant get the current fans to get excited about a new idea that could work how the hell are we gonna get new blood involved? There are a few people inthe pool world who ready do try to bring the sport to the fans and or try to do something new and exciting and they usually get ripped a new one and flamed for their efforts. I hate to say it but the Bonus ball deal was a little difficult to follow but those guys were really trying and put alot of $$ out to try and do something. Maybe that is not the game for you and thats fine I don't like one pocket but I still wish Gabe Owen the best with his one pocket tourney. I know this is a little biased but Mark Griffin and CSI has the USA Pool League where he takes a % of the $$ and puts it right into making new high paying tourneys. The project is going well from what I can understand but still needs help and as usual he is having to fight the odds and make it happen with little support.
So to get to the end of my little rant, we need a players organization, we need to have it connected with the amatur players and league players, we need to get on TV and get money pumping into this business and that way across the board everyone will win, from the fans to the cue makers, tourney promoters and the players. When these opportunities come along lets say "Hey that ain't my thing but I wish you the best of luck let me know if I can help." Sorry for the rant, I sometimes get a little frustrated when I see people out there doing what they can to help the sport and they get no support. I really want this sport to do well again in my lifetime.
Mark,
 
bfdlad said:
The sport of pool needs to make some changes, I think we all know that. Where do you start? Obviously we all have our own ideas as to what will bring new life to the sport and what will make Pool financially rewarding to those who strive to be the best. Right now there are only a handful of top pro players that can make a decent living from the game.

So why would any parent say to their kids "hey listen just get through school and practice your pool and one day you can turn pro"? The money just isn't there consistantly for these guys who are sometimes trying to raise a family on the earnings from tournaments.

WHY would I want my kids to even look at pool as a profession, even if you can get past the tainted smokey pool hall image?

Things have to change, the money has to change, the image has to change, more amatures need to become involved and interested, the Pros need a organization that will represent them and actually do something for them, TV exposure with exciting formats that will make peoplewant to watch and love one guy and hate another. My Mum used to watch snooker on TV in England and even though she could not hold a cue she wanted Steve Davis to lose and Cliff Thorburn to win cos he was a hunk (I guess). We just don't have any of these things. When someone steps up to the plate and tries to create something they are picked at by the current pool and billiards enthusiast.

If a person cant get the current fans to get excited about a new idea that could work how the hell are we gonna get new blood involved? There are a few people inthe pool world who ready do try to bring the sport to the fans and or try to do something new and exciting and they usually get ripped a new one and flamed for their efforts. I hate to say it but the Bonus ball deal was a little difficult to follow but those guys were really trying and put alot of $$ out to try and do something. Maybe that is not the game for you and thats fine I don't like one pocket but I still wish Gabe Owen the best with his one pocket tourney.

I know this is a little biased but Mark Griffin and CSI has the USA Pool League where he takes a % of the $$ and puts it right into making new high paying tourneys. The project is going well from what I can understand but still needs help and as usual he is having to fight the odds and make it happen with little support.


So to get to the end of my little rant, we need a players organization, we need to have it connected with the amatur players and league players, we need to get on TV and get money pumping into this business and that way across the board everyone will win, from the fans to the cue makers, tourney promoters and the players. When these opportunities come along lets say "Hey that ain't my thing but I wish you the best of luck let me know if I can help." Sorry for the rant, I sometimes get a little frustrated when I see people out there doing what they can to help the sport and they get no support. I really want this sport to do well again in my lifetime.
Mark,
Click to expand...

Paragraphs please-very hard to read. I took the liberty above.
 
It is frustrating to see new ideas get knocked by some people here that claim to be pool enthusiasts. For instance - Pool Poker and Pain. Here's a guy, Blair, who's put huge money into making a realty TV show that reaches out to markets far larger than pool, and a lot of people just thought it was the dumbest idea since the one-legged table.

There's just a lot of naysayers and the rest just need to provide the most positive influence they can. But although AZB is a big important pond, there's a ton more fish that don't swim here, and that's where the bait needs to go.

Re: a governing body. It's sorely needed. But won't the regional tour promoters feel they are losing power and therefore undermine the effort?

Good post Mark, you do a lot of good things for the game. We need more of you!
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
It is frustrating to see new ideas get knocked by some people here that claim to be pool enthusiasts. For instance - Pool Poker and Pain. Here's a guy, Blair, who's put huge money into making a realty TV show that reaches out to markets far larger than pool, and a lot of people just thought it was the dumbest idea since the one-legged table.
Click to expand...

Not everyone is going to like every idea... its as simple as that. To me, Pool and poker go hand in hand... just have no idea where MMA fits in. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Why not darts, poker and pain? Or pool, poker, and pingpong? That honestly makes more sense, but still strange. I just simply don't see the connection with pool/poker and MMA fighting. Does that make me a hater? Not at all.

With ANY idea, you have to take yourself out of "fan mode". Because you love pool, doesn't mean everyone does. So you need to see things from an outsiders point of view. Everyone complains that pool isn't on tv enough. Can you imagine how many people are crying on dart forums, fooseball forums, pingpong forums, etc. You have to think, we arn't the only ones not getting exposure.
 
KK9L, thank you for your kind words. Cleary, I didn't say u have to like it I just said lets say 'Hey good luck" instead of negatives. MMA may not be the mix u r I have in mind however, MMA is really big right now and just maybe bring some attention to the pool biz too as a result of it. Who knows. I hope it works out for them and worst thing that happens is pool got exposure on TV. JMO
 
I think the sport of pool needs to start looking toward the direction of golf. The PGA has multiple tours, including Q-school which are in a sense about building the player into being able to compete at the highest level. So my first recomendation would be running qualifiers around the country with a top percentage making the cut to base tour. Then from that tour another top percentage to move on and stair step it to the level of play. How exactly Im not sure? Next juvenile behavior HAS TO BE delt with in a much more swift and agressive manor. Im sorry to pick one name in particular but actions such as Earl Strickland's at the mosconi cup saying " If they hand to break from the center they'd break their wrist" or "The ref didn't see it so its not a foul" COME ON. We should be conducting ourselves as business men and women and have pride and class for what we do. Acting like kids in school yard will never attract any type of real money or endorsement... Just my opinion folks, i'd love to hear what everyone else thinks of it.
 
My recurring dream is that I win the $400 million dollar lottery and fund a 20 year tour with prize money that attracts the attention of the major networks.

But who am I kidding, I dont even buy lottery tickets and even if I did win, the players would chop me up. Its depressing that even in my wildest fantasies I have lost faith in pro pool to do the right thing. :(
 
bfdlad said:
The sport of pool needs to make some changes, I think we all know that. Where do you start? Obviously we all have our own ideas as to what will bring new life to the sport and what will make Pool financially rewarding to those who strive to be the best. Right now there are only a handful of top pro players that can make a decent living from the game. So why would any parent say to their kids "hey listen just get through school and practice your pool and one day you can turn pro"? The money just isn't there consistantly for these guys who are sometimes trying to raise a family on the earnings from tournaments.
WHY would I want my kids to even look at pool as a profession, even if you can get past the tainted smokey pool hall image?
Things have to change, the money has to change, the image has to change, more amatures need to become involved and interested, the Pros need a organization that will represent them and actually do something for them, TV exposure with exciting formats that will make peoplewant to watch and love one guy and hate another. My Mum used to watch snooker on TV in England and even though she could not hold a cue she wanted Steve Davis to lose and Cliff Thorburn to win cos he was a hunk (I guess). We just don't have any of these things. When someone steps up to the plate and tries to create something they are picked at by the current pool and billiards enthusiast. If a person cant get the current fans to get excited about a new idea that could work how the hell are we gonna get new blood involved? There are a few people inthe pool world who ready do try to bring the sport to the fans and or try to do something new and exciting and they usually get ripped a new one and flamed for their efforts. I hate to say it but the Bonus ball deal was a little difficult to follow but those guys were really trying and put alot of $$ out to try and do something. Maybe that is not the game for you and thats fine I don't like one pocket but I still wish Gabe Owen the best with his one pocket tourney. I know this is a little biased but Mark Griffin and CSI has the USA Pool League where he takes a % of the $$ and puts it right into making new high paying tourneys. The project is going well from what I can understand but still needs help and as usual he is having to fight the odds and make it happen with little support.
So to get to the end of my little rant, we need a players organization, we need to have it connected with the amatur players and league players, we need to get on TV and get money pumping into this business and that way across the board everyone will win, from the fans to the cue makers, tourney promoters and the players. When these opportunities come along lets say "Hey that ain't my thing but I wish you the best of luck let me know if I can help." Sorry for the rant, I sometimes get a little frustrated when I see people out there doing what they can to help the sport and they get no support. I really want this sport to do well again in my lifetime.
Mark,
Click to expand...
Mark, check your PM.
 
I have always felt if you can reach league players - ALL leagues - that your reach more players. How to do that is the tough part.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things tho....
 
Doesn't take long....

It's amazing that Earl has been brought into this subject as if he's the SOLE "mis-behavior" on tour. The problem is pool is a game that people are passionate about. And with that passion comes action, which as we all know, is not always calm, cool, and collected. However, regardless of how Earl acts, he's passionate about the game and people tune in to see what he's going to do. Part of the problem with the WPBA and some Men's pool is there is NO FRIGGIN EXCITEMENT for general viewing public. Who, most of the time have no idea if it's a great shot or pure luck( as witnessed by the mind numbing clap clap clap on every shot in a wpba match) I'm an avid pool player and collector and it bores me to tears to watch that stuff. There's just NO EMOTION, like they are all on 1/2 a Quaalude. I understand being focused and keeping emotion in check which is great for your wallet but makes for terrible t.v. especially for the casual viewer which ESPN counts on for viewership and ratings.


GOOD POINT TRIGGER! If people realized how much the $$$ the league players spend on time, equipment, accessories, and tournaments, maybe they wouldn't get such a bad rap around here. there is always at least one thread dogging leagues or league players.
 
Last edited:
ugotactionTX said:
It's amazing that Earl has been brought into this subject as if he's the SOLE "mis-behavior" on tour. The problem is pool is a game that people are passionate about. And with that passion comes action, which as we all know, is not always calm, cool, and collected. However, regardless of how Earl acts, he's passionate about the game and people tune in to see what he's going to do. Part of the problem with the WPBA and some Men's pool is there is NO FRIGGIN EXCITEMENT for general viewing public. Who, most of the time have no idea if it's a great shot or pure luck( as witnessed by the mind numbing clap clap clap on every shot in a wpba match) I'm an avid pool player and collector and it bores me to tears to watch that stuff. There's just NO EMOTION, like they are all on 1/2 a Quaalude. I understand being focused and keeping emotion in check which is great for your wallet but makes for terrible t.v. especially for the casual viewer which ESPN counts on for viewership and ratings.
Click to expand...

Hey, following that thought train brings us to full contact pool. Perhaps that is where the future of pool is! Somehow I remember a funny commercial about that very subject.

Seriously, I understand the need for some excitement in the game. Being well below the "professional" level of play, some of my runouts leave both my opponents and the spectators shaking their heads. I like to joke that, "if I was really good, no one would want to watch me play". Talk about passion. I challenge you to find someone more passionate about the game than me! Wait a minute, that was then. Now I could hardly care!

Are you suggesting we allow a free for all? If you don't like your opponent just "shark" them to death? Scream and shout, pound your cue, throw a piece of chalk, belittle your opponent, the referee or the audience? Where does passion for the game end? Perhaps bringing Earl's name into this discussion is just wrong. Lets leave him behind and discuss the real issues!

Lyn
 
Mark your ideas are not new, and they have been bounced around before. So Mark what are you personally doing to fix the problem???
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Mark your ideas are not new, and they have been bounced around before. So Mark what are you personally doing to fix the problem???
Click to expand...
Well as I statedbefore, I am just a simple man. I have been doing thebest I can to not only put a couple bucks in my pocket but also some of the pro player. As a bi product it just so happens that we have taken professional pool and players to towns and cities that would usually never see it. I think somewhere along the line I have done a very small part in being pro active and hopefully put a couple of smiles on a few peoples faces. I continue to do this as we speak and hopefully I will be able to do more and more as we go. Again its not much but lat year we visited 47 different cities in the us and performed pool schools and exhibitions for the pool community. If you have any ideas that you think I could do I am totally open to hearing them. Thank you,

Mark,
 
To be quite blunt the reason pool is not successful and might never be is that most people involved with pool do not look far enough ahead. Pool players mainly are looking for the fast money and so do most of the people putting on events. I have no problem people doing things for money but do not present yourself as if your not or your doing things for the interest of the players.

Imagine Tiger goes to a golf tournament where its advertised $1,000,000 first prize, he wins and get $100,000, do you think he would stand for it? He would get a lawyer and sue them and get that money.

Pool players let things go or complain amongst one another, I am sure we could have a one of the good lawyers who love pool take up these matters and represent the players. Maybe it would get people to stop false advertising these tournaments and give it some credibility, perhaps then players would be paid like they should.

For the investment of time, travel, room and expenses it is not worth it for most of them. This game is wonderful but if your in it for the money then your in the wrong gig because 99.8% of the people involved in pool in one way or another are not making any real money.

The small percent that is are making it off the players and most certainly taking advantage of them and exploiting them but hey its the players choice anyway to let that happen. I will say there are a small group out there who do make money but do things right and really care for the game and players along with being successful also.

I hope like many that someone will come along and save pool like we all though KT would do, regardless of his shady past he tried and it failed, I am sure many of you think he got rich doing it, truth is he lost a ton of money doing it but had a plan for it to be profitable not just for the players but himself. Would like to see anyone who has money or is famous help out and make something happen, use your connections like that Jack and Ron being big in the movie industry, a movie would help for sure.

We need money from wealthy lovers of the game to get a mens tour started with the money promised really added and paid. It will take time and investment but if it is successful and long running sponsors will get behind it, if there was one big tour in the US, we could have all the sponsors behind it together.

Money defines success IMO so if sponsors see a tour having events with the money really being there then maybe they will be a part of it and I am not talking about the cash strapped sponsors involved right now. One event a month with a title sponsor and many smaller sponsors. When you have something with big money and talent I feel you might get more interest from the media, the main stream media that is like pool being in the sports section of your paper again or on ESPN in the US.

Sorry for being such a flatliner but this is how it really is sadly and those of you waiting for another shot in the arm or help to arrive will be like the Battling Bastards of Bataan. :cool:
 
bfdlad said:
Well as I statedbefore, I am just a simple man. I have been doing thebest I can to not only put a couple bucks in my pocket but also some of the pro player. As a bi product it just so happens that we have taken professional pool and players to towns and cities that would usually never see it. I think somewhere along the line I have done a very small part in being pro active and hopefully put a couple of smiles on a few peoples faces. I continue to do this as we speak and hopefully I will be able to do more and more as we go. Again its not much but lat year we visited 47 different cities in the us and performed pool schools and exhibitions for the pool community. If you have any ideas that you think I could do I am totally open to hearing them. Thank you,

Mark,
Click to expand...

Mark I feel what your doing is very good for the players, nothing wrong with making money doing what your doing and it seems like the players are happy. I know that everyone of those people who got lessons will never forget it for their lives and it was a bargain for the money. Some of those rooms might never have had a World Champion come in the door no less 2 of them. :smile:
 
bfdlad said:
Cleary, I didn't say u have to like it I just said lets say 'Hey good luck" instead of negatives. MMA may not be the mix u r I have in mind however, MMA is really big right now and just maybe bring some attention to the pool biz too as a result of it. Who knows. I hope it works out for them and worst thing that happens is pool got exposure on TV. JMO
Click to expand...

"Hey good luck" doesnt help anyone. That is what your mom and dad say before your t-ball game. People who try to do something, and let us know, NEED the constructive criticism. Everyone just saying, "yea thats great!" and not saying what they really feel doesn't help.

Some people just love to hate... but others, like myself, really want to help. Even if that means saying what you don't want to hear. If you want to make a different in anything, you gotta take the bad with the good. If there is more bad than good, in your own community, think of how others will see it. Its simply food for thought.

In my opinion, trying to ride the coat tails of MMA will only end in heartbreak. Pool, Poker and Pain is like ice cream and t-bone steak. You may like ice cream and you may like a t-bone steak, but together... doesn't really work. Exposure is exposure, but executives make the big bucks for a reason. They know what works, what has worked and what will work. You only get so many at-bats before the coach puts in a pinch hitter.

Again, just food for thought.
 
cleary said:
"Hey good luck" doesnt help anyone. That is what your mom and dad say before your t-ball game. People who try to do something, and let us know, NEED the constructive criticism. Everyone just saying, "yea thats great!" and not saying what they really feel doesn't help.

Some people just love to hate... but others, like myself, really want to help. Even if that means saying what you don't want to hear. If you want to make a different in anything, you gotta take the bad with the good. If there is more bad than good, in your own community, think of how others will see it. Its simply food for thought.

In my opinion, trying to ride the coat tails of MMA will only end in heartbreak. Pool, Poker and Pain is like ice cream and t-bone steak. You may like ice cream and you may like a t-bone steak, but together... doesn't really work. Exposure is exposure, but executives make the big bucks for a reason. They know what works, what has worked and what will work. You only get so many at-bats before the coach puts in a pinch hitter.

Again, just food for thought.
Click to expand...
You do have a good point, say "good luck' don't get you anywhere. I guess I was just using that as a generic way of trying to explain. Maybe then point out the positives and then politly say "Well I think if you did .... it might make it easier to understand or more exciting" I have seen people just get brutally bashed with no positives only negativity. I am not sure I am explaining that right, however I see your point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top