I'm a vegan, but I also don't like things going to waste. So I figure its already dead, I might as well eat it. But, I am a vegan.
Don't Want to Start an Argument
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Your wife is a vegetarian, she is not a vegan. Lacto vegetarians eat diary products, milk, cheese, yogurt, etc. Other vegetarians will not.
But Vegans will never eat meat or diary foods, nor buy or wear anything made of leather, fur or made with animal products, like certain soaps, etc.
So, yeah, vegans would have to use a non leather tip to shoot pool.
Yes but does he swallow?I guess Max Eberle is SOL
I hate to disagree, you will have to do your own research. I think you will find from our teeth to the enzymes we secrete to the length of our digestive systems we are in fact, Herbivores.
I had to come back and correct what I wrote earlier. When I say Herbivores, I am including eating things like fruits, nuts berries, seeds and so on. Technically a Herbivores would eat just plant life and grasses, we eat more then that. I don't think we can live on just say grasses, but I would exclude meat as being part of our natural diet regardless what one chooses to classify us. We are definitely not carnivores though.
The length of our digestive systems is such that meat we eat actually putrefies in you warm bodies as it is slowly digested. We are not like a dog who will digest and pass his meal in like 8 hours. That meal will be in us for as long a three days.
That crap you took today was something you ate several days ago. We eat animals because we can and we want to, not because we were designed to.
The only reason we can eat meat at all is we learned to kill and cook it. If not for that we could never eat meat. We are not even built to catch and tear apart a live animal, our small weak mouths would not even permit it. Our teeth are not close to the strength or design of a real carnivore or omnivore for that matter.
We can't chew the sinew, muscle, fat, bone, drink the blood, much less begin to digest it. Even today you could not live on a diet of fresh killed meat, not even fish or fowl, the bacteria or parasites would kill you. The speed of a carnivore digestive system alone protects them, along with the bacteria and enzymes used to defend against the pathogens that would have days inside us to take hold and make us sick or worse.
We eat meat by choice, because we can prepare it so it can be consumed, otherwise it would not be on our menu. We are only omnivore as you say for the same reasons, we can cook the meats so they can safely be eaten.
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Agreed.
Additionally, many of the vegans and vegetarians don't realize that if they don't stick with ORGANIC greens specifically -- and think "just nixing meats and any animal by-products from their diet" is healthier, they've actually endangered themselves.
Today you have something called GMO -- genetically-modified organism (greens) -- and companies like Monsanto and DOW that produce them. You are eating greens that are constantly producing their own insecticide because they have been genetically modified to do so by spraying the genes of Bacillus thuringiensis into the plant's genes (notice the "spraying" comment -- it's NOT an exact science, and inadvertent other changes up and down the DNA strand happen as casualties). The plant then goes on to continuously produce BT toxin, which you then eat. BT toxin, when eaten by insects, causes their digestive systems to rupture. The same thing happens when animals and humans eat these Frankengreens, which explains the sudden rise of G.I. problems in the last decade (ever wonder why a whole spectrum of G.I. diseases, like Crohn's disease as just one example, are on the rise?).
Sample scary facts, from http://usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/28/gmo-questions/1658225/
Q: What are genetically engineered foods?
A: These are plants that have had a gene from another plant inserted into them to give them some ability they didn't have before. Today there are two common genetic modifications. One is for herbicide tolerance: Plants are given a gene that protects them from harm when a farmer sprays them with herbicides to kill weeds. The other commonly added trait is a gene from a soil bacteria called Bacillus thuringiensis that allows plants to produce their own insecticide.
Q: What's a GMO?
A: It means genetically modified organism, a common term for genetically engineered foods.
[...]
Q: How much of our food is genetically engineered?
A: In the United States today a huge proportion of the most commonly grown commodity crops are genetically engineered: 95% of the nation's sugar beets, 94% of the soybeans, 90% of the cotton and 88% of the feed corn, according to the 2011 International Service for the Acquisition of Agri-biotech Applications report.
About 90% of the papaya grown in the United States, all in Hawaii, has been genetically engineered to allow it to withstand the ringspot virus, which virtually wiped out papaya production in the islands in the 1980s.
Very small amounts of genetically engineered zucchini, yellow squash and sweet corn are also sold in the United States.
A: These are plants that have had a gene from another plant inserted into them to give them some ability they didn't have before. Today there are two common genetic modifications. One is for herbicide tolerance: Plants are given a gene that protects them from harm when a farmer sprays them with herbicides to kill weeds. The other commonly added trait is a gene from a soil bacteria called Bacillus thuringiensis that allows plants to produce their own insecticide.
Q: What's a GMO?
A: It means genetically modified organism, a common term for genetically engineered foods.
[...]
Q: How much of our food is genetically engineered?
A: In the United States today a huge proportion of the most commonly grown commodity crops are genetically engineered: 95% of the nation's sugar beets, 94% of the soybeans, 90% of the cotton and 88% of the feed corn, according to the 2011 International Service for the Acquisition of Agri-biotech Applications report.
About 90% of the papaya grown in the United States, all in Hawaii, has been genetically engineered to allow it to withstand the ringspot virus, which virtually wiped out papaya production in the islands in the 1980s.
Very small amounts of genetically engineered zucchini, yellow squash and sweet corn are also sold in the United States.
So, to those who think you're eating healthier "just because you nixed animal products from your diet," think again. Unless your greens are strictly ORGANIC (which guarantees non-GMO -- by law), you actually are eating worse, because now a much higher concentration of your diet is this GMO poison.
A must-watch for anyone concerned about the source of their [vegetable] foods: "Genetic Roulette: The Gamble Of Our Lives"
https://archive.org/details/GeneticRouletteTheGambleOfOurLives
You'll also learn the reason why the dangers of GMO haven't been making their way into the public.
-Sean <-- proud animal protein eater, and also strictly organic greens
The problem is compounded in that you are not only eating meat but animals raised on GMO to boot
http://www.nationofchange.org/first...soy-and-corn-offers-frightening-results-13723
You can be pretty sure that someone who adheres to a vegetarian diet is well aware where their food comes from, it is their thing. In my case we get most of it locally grown when we can. I wish I had the time to grow my own food but I just don't have the time. My Mother in law who is dead now had several acres in Virginia.
She made a deal with a guy who she let put an organic farm on it and she had all the food she wanted in return. Plus he did a little extra work on the place. I thought about doing the same thing with some property I have in northern Florida. I am just not as trusting as she was and don't like dealing with people.
macguy is a person of reason and of intelligent.
I did **** with him in the gun thread, and I still don't agree with his opinions on weapons.
In this thread however, he has been one the very few people with a constructive opinion.
You should listen to this texan.
I did **** with him in the gun thread, and I still don't agree with his opinions on weapons.
In this thread however, he has been one the very few people with a constructive opinion.
You should listen to this texan.
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Concerning the "by virtue of being vegetarian, you can be pretty sure they know where their food comes from, it's their thing," I disagree. Not necessarily. The problem is that the bio-tech vendors (i.e. Monsanto) also genetically-modify seed. So unless your farm or grower can trace back their seed stock to genuine original organic seed, just because they grow locally and without pesticide, doesn't mean squat. They can slap "locally grown" stickers all they want on the produce, it doesn't mean anything. I recently spoke with such a family that bragged how all their veggies were "locally-grown," etc., and when I asked them if they were absolutely sure those veggies weren't grown from Monsanto seed, they couldn't answer.
So you have to go that extra step -- make sure the veggies are certified organic. See (click here) for more info.
As for animals raised on GMO, that's true as well. In this case, you have to follow the same letter, making sure you can trace your meat's genesis from the farm, that the farm used certified organic feed, etc.
The problem is most of the public don't even know what GMOs are nor what danger they pose (which is the way Monsanto wants it). So the average reader reading this may think we're being somewhat alarmist over this, and may think it's way too much effort to have to trace the source of our veggies and meats. But it's essential to do so, if we are to stem the gradual poisoning of the population.
Concerning the whole question of nixing meats and "how much superior" a veggie diet is over an omnivorous one, I saw like anything, the human race is its own worst enemy. We're all a bunch of extremists -- "all or nothing," "black or white," "hot or cold," "left or right," etc. We've forgotten the meaning of the word MODERATION. We've forgotten how to eat things in moderation, of a balanced diet, of how to moderate ourselves. Nixing meat from one's diet altogether is not the same as moderating how much meat you eat. Big difference. But because we're a society of extremists, we're told to nix meat from our diet altogether, because we don't know (we've forgotten) where that middle ground is.
In a nutshell, the loss of the ability to "moderate ourselves" extends not just to diet, but even the way we THINK. And it's a shame, too.
-Sean
Yeah. That's why I like paleo. It's organic veggies and grassfed/pastured meats. It's more like vegan than most vegetarians I've known. I like what your mom did.
There is actually diet that is based on what the original hominids ate, which obviously pre-dated agriculture and food/genetic meddling. You eat what your human genes were programmed to eat. It's call the Paleo diet, and you can read more here:
http://robbwolf.com/what-is-the-paleo-diet/
Basically, it's this:
Okay To Eat
Fruits
Vegetables
Lean Meats
Seafood
Nuts & Seeds
Healthy Fats
Avoid
Dairy
Grains
Processed Food & Sugars
Legumes
Starches
Alcohol
Notice that lean meats are included (okay to eat). I know folks who switched to a Paleo diet, and the results were remarkable in the changes they reported (significant weight loss, greater energy and wellness, sick far less often, etc.).
-Sean
Moderation is always best and healthy is even better. I am not saying not to eat meat I was responding to the person that labeled us as carnivores. If you just take a look at us there is a lot about us that says we are not. Our brain was so superior to everything else we were able to change our environment to our advantage learning to use fire to heat and cook, making clothing to protect us. Even exploit other species on the planet.
We went from scavengers and hunter gathers to farmers breeding and raising livestock and our own foods. It was not even evolutionary, we by pasted evolution changing what ever was our natural designation in the food chain, we moved right to the top.
I hate to say it, you watch those shows about ancient aliens and you have to wonder. We are nothing like anything else on this planet. We don't look like we should have even been successful at all and died out years ago. Beyond our brain, everything about us is weak and inferior to every other species. To hot we die, to cold we die, our skin is almost useless as any kind of protection.
Anything we eat that doesn't agree with us can kill us. Infections, rashes, allergies, blood clots, we didn't even reproduce very successfully. Not even that long ago women would have nine children and have one survive to adulthood. Not to mention the life span may have been like 35 years and 1/3 of that required constant care to stay alive.
How in the hell are we still here?
But that is for another discussion.
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Good post, macguy, and I agree. While an interesting species we are, we are also a dangerous one -- not only to other species, but to ourselves.
Consume, consume, consume. We build it so we can consume it. That's what we are -- a species of consumption. Gluttons, in fact.
-Sean
Good post. Is there even another species on the planet who goes through such agonizing pain to give birth ??? Holy crap, that alone should have been enough to stop the species thousands of years ago
Evolution only stops at extinction. We have canines which used to be for either meat eating or defense. If you look at chimps, which I think science has proven we share a common ancestor, they also are meat eaters.
Chimps are omnivores, but mostly eat a plant based diet.
Gorilla's and Orangutans, which are the strongest and more feared, eat a plant based diet, (but will eat the occasional termintes and ants) yet can weight over 400 pounds. Gorilla's share 98.3% of the same DNA as humans.
Takes 8.5 months to give birth... sound familiar ? And the young are nurtured by parents for several years... hmmm, where have I heard that before ?
I bet they don't have diabetes and heart attack problems.:grin-square:
