Dr. Dave's and Bob Jewett's Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP)

Woof:

I don't think that's correct. What I think is in question about Dr. Dave's site, is this -- did he properly attribute the sources of all his information?

There have been some notable questions about this in the past, as this post (and others like it) seem to indicate:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2391695#post2391695

While I do think Dr. Dave's site is an invaluable resource, I think he needs to be extra careful and vigilant where he gets the information from. An information centralization site of this magnitude generates a lot of interest (read: a lot of eyeballs), and some of those eyeballs are bound to be authors of information themselves. "Recognizing" one's information without attribution to the original source will cause undesirable attention.

-Sean

Tell me, Sean, how does this thread, in it's original intent (not what it's become at the time I'm posting) differ in general from what Gene does currently. Aren't both guys marketing something here on the Main Forum?

I'm not addressing how Gene used to spam the forum. (Or how Dave seems to, as well, with posts in multiple threads linking back to his incredibly great website.) I'm speaking about how this thread was started, and does this cross the line that you have drawn regarding "marketing" in the Main Forum currently, and how that reflects on Gene. Or Nathan. Or Mark and his Varner/Hall compilation. Or anyone else who announces their wares here on the Main Forum.

Sorry to keep at this, but I fail to see a significant difference currently (the last several months, meaning perhaps Gene has mended his ways after enough discussion with mods?), and wonder if you have an axe to grind with Gene. When Dr.Dave has been nearly as prolific in my 2 years here on AZB.

Or is it that Dr. Dave is an academic, a professor. And Gene is just peddling his product? Does that make a difference?

All that having been said, thank you, Dr. Dave, for the awesome resources. And your contributions here. I truly appreciate it.
 
Tell me, Sean, how does this thread, in it's original intent (not what it's become at the time I'm posting) differ in general from what Gene does currently. Aren't both guys marketing something here on the Main Forum?

I'm not addressing how Gene used to spam the forum. (Or how Dave seems to, as well, with posts in multiple threads linking back to his incredibly great website.) I'm speaking about how this thread was started, and does this cross the line that you have drawn regarding "marketing" in the Main Forum currently, and how that reflects on Gene. Or Nathan. Or Mark and his Varner/Hall compilation. Or anyone else who announces their wares here on the Main Forum.

Sorry to keep at this, but I fail to see a significant difference currently (the last several months, meaning perhaps Gene has mended his ways after enough discussion with mods?), and wonder if you have an axe to grind with Gene. When Dr.Dave has been nearly as prolific in my 2 years here on AZB.

Or is it that Dr. Dave is an academic, a professor. And Gene is just peddling his product? Does that make a difference?

All that having been said, thank you, Dr. Dave, for the awesome resources. And your contributions here. I truly appreciate it.

justadub:

First of all, if you noticed (which I don't think you did, probably because of my postings in JoeyA's best player in Louisiana thread), I'd relaxed my position admonishing Gene for his past behavior. I openly admit that Gene has backed-off on the incessant spamming of the forums, and I did so several times in that thread. What I was getting at, are the continued threads by e.g. Joey where they're continuing to engage in divisiveness with "naysayers" and "yaysayers" thing (which is getting old), and using that as a whine against what happened with Geno, which had nothing to do with it.

Second, Dr. Dave is no exception to the rules against spamming the forums with ads. Announcing the availability of a product to the forum is one thing; going into every thread (even ones that are unrelated to the product) and spamming it with coercion to buy the product is quite another. The latter is what Geno had (past tense) been known for. I think the thread which announces the temporary availability of his free phone lessons is ok. Geno's availability of free pool lessons and Dr. Dave's availability of his VEPPS product are just that -- just announcements of availability, not outright and widespread peddling. Again, let's get this straight -- announcement of availability of a product seems to be ok; but going into other people's threads and spamming them with product is quite another.

Now, what does this have to do with my post you quoted above? I don't see how this has anything to do with it, unless it's an opportunistic attempt by you to go after me for something you saw in another thread.

Care to explain?

-Sean
 
Tell me, Sean, how does this thread, in it's original intent (not what it's become at the time I'm posting) differ in general from what Gene does currently. Aren't both guys marketing something here on the Main Forum?

I'm not addressing how Gene used to spam the forum. (Or how Dave seems to, as well, with posts in multiple threads linking back to his incredibly great website.) I'm speaking about how this thread was started, and does this cross the line that you have drawn regarding "marketing" in the Main Forum currently, and how that reflects on Gene. Or Nathan. Or Mark and his Varner/Hall compilation. Or anyone else who announces their wares here on the Main Forum.

Sorry to keep at this, but I fail to see a significant difference currently (the last several months, meaning perhaps Gene has mended his ways after enough discussion with mods?), and wonder if you have an axe to grind with Gene. When Dr.Dave has been nearly as prolific in my 2 years here on AZB.

Or is it that Dr. Dave is an academic, a professor. And Gene is just peddling his product? Does that make a difference?

All that having been said, thank you, Dr. Dave, for the awesome resources. And your contributions here. I truly appreciate it.

Why isn't this thread in the for sale section?
 
justadub:

First of all, if you noticed (which I don't think you did, probably because of my postings in JoeyA's best player in Louisiana thread), I'd relaxed my position admonishing Gene for his past behavior. I openly admit that Gene has backed-off on the incessant spamming of the forums, and I did so several times in that thread. What I was getting at, are the continued threads by e.g. Joey where they're continuing to engage in divisiveness with "naysayers" and "yaysayers" thing (which is getting old), and using that as a whine against what happened with Geno, which had nothing to do with it.

Second, Dr. Dave is no exception to the rules against spamming the forums with ads. Announcing the availability of a product to the forum is one thing; going into every thread (even ones that are unrelated to the product) and spamming it with coercion to buy the product is quite another. The latter is what Geno had (past tense) been known for. I think the thread which announces the temporary availability of his free phone lessons is ok. Geno's availability of free pool lessons and Dr. Dave's availability of his VEPPS product are just that -- just announcements of availability, not outright and widespread peddling. Again, let's get this straight -- announcement of availability of a product seems to be ok; but going into other people's threads and spamming them with product is quite another.

Now, what does this have to do with my post you quoted above? I don't see how this has anything to do with it, unless it's an opportunistic attempt by you to go after me for something you saw in another thread.

Care to explain?

-Sean

You're correct, it was an opportunity to use this as an example of a similar posting tendency, nothing to do with your post at all.

And realize that I'm not "going after" you. I always enjoy your posts here. And the back and forth we have when we disagree, like in this instance.

Regarding this part of this post...

"Again, let's get this straight -- announcement of availability of a product seems to be ok; but going into other people's threads and spamming them with product is quite another." Doesn't Dr. Dave provide links back to his site and references to those links in virtually EVERY post that he makes in threads, not just threads started by him?

I am merely trying to point out the seemingly obvious comparison. And to wonder how it's OK in one case and not in the other.

Have a good day, Sean. I'll stop at this point, hoping I've made my point, and to not derail this thread any further.

And again, Dr. Dave, sorry for the hijack. I don't have a problem with you providing your links, or any of your contributions. I said it before, and I'll say it again, I really appreciate all the work you've done, and the help you provide here. I'm sure your new product is as amazing as the other stuff is.
 
You're correct, it was an opportunity to use this as an example of a similar posting tendency, nothing to do with your post at all.

And realize that I'm not "going after" you. I always enjoy your posts here. And the back and forth we have when we disagree, like in this instance.

Regarding this part of this post...

"Again, let's get this straight -- announcement of availability of a product seems to be ok; but going into other people's threads and spamming them with product is quite another." Doesn't Dr. Dave provide links back to his site and references to those links in virtually EVERY post that he makes in threads, not just threads started by him?

I am merely trying to point out the seemingly obvious comparison. And to wonder how it's OK in one case and not in the other.

Have a good day, Sean. I'll stop at this point, hoping I've made my point, and to not derail this thread any further.

And again, Dr. Dave, sorry for the hijack. I don't have a problem with you providing your links, or any of your contributions. I said it before, and I'll say it again, I really appreciate all the work you've done, and the help you provide here. I'm sure your new product is as amazing as the other stuff is.

justadub:

Thank you for acknowledging that, and thank you for the continued civility in your posts. I'll always return the favor, you know that.

As for the point you quoted, specifically to Dr. Dave's incessant linking (oftentimes to the *same* resource page, multiple times in a single sentence much less in a single post, no less), I'm surprised you don't recall the many occasions where I'd pointedly questioned Dr. Dave about that, what the purpose of it was and why he thinks it "necessary." He himself will tell you. I'm probably one of the most overt people on this topic -- incessant linking is not only unnecessary, but annoying and, actually, skirting the rules, as well. (Reference the sticky above about Mr. Wilson's new linking rules moving forward.) I don't actively pursue it as much as I used to, because I don't want to appear as a forum d*ck, and also, Dr. Dave continues to do it (and upped it a notch recently as well) probably to draw me out -- I won't play into that game.

To close, Geno's and Dr. Dave's products are both excellent. There is no favoritism going on here, nor axes to grind, nor even any consideration to someone's "background" or "education" as you tried to imply above. (I'm a pool player, remember, and our sport is rich with folks from all walks of life -- so I'm surprised you brought this up.) Instead, I'm trying to be as consistent with my message as I can, as an outspoken fellow reader-representative of these forums. I thank you for questioning my position, in the spirit of trying to point out any inconsistencies in my message.

I'm signing off as well, to go to a customer site to work on some Cisco big iron. Due to being sequestered in a data center, I'll be offline for pretty much most of the day, but I'll try to catch up with things when I get back later this evening.

Thank you again for the civil debate when we disagree. Have a great day yourself, and we'll chat again soon.

-Sean
 
I honestly cannot believe all of the negativity in this thread for such a great compilation of work. I can't wait to get this for Christmas. Keep up the great work, Dave!
I'm not surprised at all by the hostility ... it's "par for the course" for these users.

Thank you for the positive feeback. I hope you enjoy and benefit from VEPP.

Regards,
Dave
 
I would like to thank Dr. Dave as well for all the helpful information he has on his site. I refer to his website alot and still have not gone through 1/3 of the information that is on there. I can not thank him enough for the knowledge I have acquired from his site.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones Dave.

Paul
 
Dr. Dave is no exception to the rules against spamming the forums with ads. Announcing the availability of a product to the forum is one thing; going into every thread (even ones that are unrelated to the product) and spamming it with coercion to buy the product is quite another.
Sean,

I too get annoyed by people who spam and promote products on this site, especially when they don't offer any substantive information or discussion on the forum.

However, I am offended by your accusation (see blue above), and I think it is very inaccurate and inappropriate. I do often link to the free resources on my website that address topics being discussed on this forum. For example, people often ask about: effective draw shot technique, advantages and disadvantages of low-squirt (LD) shafts, aim compensation when using English, cue ball position control, bank and kick shot aiming systems, professional "aiming systems," pendulum stroke vs. a piston stroke, CTE, benefits of basic cut-shot aiming systems, optimal break cue weight, cue "feel," "hit," and "playability," etc! If I and others have online videos, articles, illustrations, and explanations that already answer questions being asked, or provide supporting information for something being discussed, why should I not link to them?

I personally value when people provide links to articles, videos, and websites that provide resources on a given topic. For example, whenever Bob Jewett provides a link to one of his excellent articles or when Mike Page provides a link to one of his excellent online videos, I am usually very eager to click on the links to learn more about the particular topic. I also enjoy it when people often provide links to interesting YouTube clips of matches and instructional stuff. I also like it when people link to CueTable diagrams showing interesting shots. To me, all of these useful online resource help people learn more about this wonderful game.

I plan to continue to offer links to the online resources from me and others because I know many people appreciate and benefit from them. As I've said before many times:

If you don't care about learning from the online videos, articles, illustrations, and explanations, don't click on the links!!!

Concerning the new product from me and Bob, I think it is very appropriate to announce it on this forum. Also, we are not only announcing the product ... we are providing links to numerous free video excerpts we have offered online. Some people will find these videos interesting and useful, whether or not they care about our product.

Regards,
Dave
 
...Dr. Dave, sorry for the hijack. I don't have a problem with you providing your links, or any of your contributions. I said it before, and I'll say it again, I really appreciate all the work you've done, and the help you provide here. I'm sure your new product is as amazing as the other stuff is.
Thank you for the kind words and support.

Happy Holidays,
Dave
 
Yes I am a Noob and D level player and my post will have little value.

But; I have purchased the CTE ProV1 from Stan and found the DVD extremely valuable.

For me; the hardest part of Stans method is knowing which edge to line up against and knowing which way to pivot.

I have also spent several hours reviewing Dr. Daves material.

While Dr. Dave summarizes Stans method; he does not go into near the detail that Stan does. In general Dr. Dave gave a basic example of Stans method as a summay of many different styles.

I can see a lot of value in Dr. Daves DVD and compilation as I do not have the time or energy to understand each of the methods that have been summarized in an easy to use format.

I can see me using Dr Daves compilation to help me find an alternative method of aiming for shots that I have extreme difficulty in making.

It is my belief that most players use a mix of aiming methods and styles depending on the shot they are trying to make.

It is my goal to figure out the right style for ME shot by shot and Dr Dave is helping with that.
 
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